The Trinity before and after Jesus's birth

reply to post by muzzleflash


cool post thanks I will read it... Never heard this before.

"that's one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind"

I guess we are supposed to erase that now too? being it's a conspiracy and we never went to the moon...

reply to post by muzzleflash


Interesting about the Cathers.
Couple of other interesting groups that were hunted down for their beliefs
Waldensians
Lollards

When you kill, persecute and torture people for 12 centuries for not believing in the Trinity, that is bound to have a long lasting religious ramification on dogma, one, the people who believed that to advocate it are gone, and even if some others do believe it, they would be too scared to pass on that belief structure, less they suffer the same fate.

But truth has a way of surfacing given enough time, truth is like air in the ocean, it will eventually rise to the top.
There is enough information in books and on the net so that everybody can make an informed decision in 2012, and they don't have to be worried about being burned at the stake for heresy if they decide the Trinity is false dogma propagated by the same clergy class today.

Ahh Hydroman, you always have so many questions, and I'm always glad to share, what I believe, to be the answer.. but were you really a Christian for 20 years? I learned all of this stuff in my two years being a Christian, not to boast, but it just seems after 20 years you should know this stuff.

Anyways, to try and answer your question.. Read the first verse of John. It explains that in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word WAS God.

Then, later, you read that the Word became flesh. See, Jesus had always existed - because he is God - but it wasn't until he came to Earth that he became flesh. What happened to his "form" before he came to Earth? Well, he was God. He IS God.

The Father - God
The Son - Jesus
The Holy Spirit - Spirit

All three are God, all three are one.

Think of it this way, when you look at the sun, what do you see? You see ONE star - yet it is made up of, say, three components - mass, heat and energy. Three different components, unified into one bright star.

Originally posted by Lionhearte
Then, later, you read that the Word became flesh. See, Jesus had always existed - because he is God - but it wasn't until he came to Earth that he became flesh. What happened to his "form" before he came to Earth? Well, he was God. He IS God.

The Father - God
The Son - Jesus
The Holy Spirit - Spirit

All three are God, all three are one.

Ok, before Jesus became flesh, was there a trinity? If so, what were the forms of the three that make up the one before he came to earth? Next, did Jesus's prebirth form disappear from heaven when he came to earth? Do you see what I'm asking?

reply to post by Hydroman


You are ALWAYS bashing religion mostly christians on this site...get a life dude seriously.

Originally posted by Evanzsayz
You are ALWAYS bashing religion mostly christians on this site...get a life dude seriously.

Nah, just asking questions. I do the same to muslims when they post. It's just that there's mostly christians here. As long as I got the freedom to ask questions, I'm going to do it.

reply to post by Hydroman


Yeah your free to do what you want, but don't you think its getting a little pathetic?

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
The spirit realm is outside the time domain, it has no time.

How do you know this?

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
God isn't someone with lots and lots of time, He is timeless, outside the 4th dimension altogether.

If he is timeless, why did he count 6 days when creating the earth?

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Besides that, you and I are eternal beings. We currently reside in a finite structure, but that structure dies and our soul and spirit do not. Think of a computer, if you knew every circuit, every wire, every piece of the hardware you could not tell me how it functioned. It's just a residence for what actually makes a computer, the software. Software has no mass, we can transmit it over the airwaves.

We're talking about people, not computers.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Finally, we humans don't even punish folks here on Earth for how long it took to commit a crime. If I murder someone it may take a second to do that if I shot them in the head with a shotgun, but I'll spend a lot more than a second in jail. We are punished depending on the severity of the crime, not how long it took to commit the crime. Don't hold God to a standards/rules we humans don't hold ourselves to, that's the "Special Pleading" fallacy.

But if you steal something, you don't get the death penalty. What crime did we commit to deserve burning for an eternity? Well, we were born in a sinful world under a sinful nature. We had no choice. That is our crime. Now, if we can't gather the faith to believe in a particular god, even though there are several to choose from, we will get our "just" punishment. How can this make any sense?

Originally posted by Evanzsayz
Yeah your free to do what you want, but don't you think its getting a little pathetic?

Maybe it is to you....I don't know. I feel like this kind of discussion is good for everyone, but that's just my opinion. It's always good to see what people believe and why they believe it.

reply to post by Hydroman


Yea, I understand what you're asking, sorry if I failed to explain it lol. It's good to have questions


It's kind of hard to comprehend, but the Trinity, as you've said, consists of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. All of these three are different, because they are all different "persons" but they are all the same - one God.

To answer your question, no, the Trinity did not exist before the Word became Flesh. However, the Word IS God, so the Trinity, though not existing in 325 B.C., Jesus still existed, because Jesus is the Word, and the Word was with God from the beginning.

So, again; No. The trinity did not exist before Christ became Flesh, but Christ existed since the beginning - because He is God.

Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by Evanzsayz
Yeah your free to do what you want, but don't you think its getting a little pathetic?

Maybe it is to you....I don't know. I feel like this kind of discussion is good for everyone, but that's just my opinion. It's always good to see what people believe and why they believe it.

Exactly. People need to question everything, including their beliefs or lack thereof. If they're too afraid to ask, then their cowards, and because they're cowards, the establishment won in turning them into sheep.

This goes both ways - whether you believe something or disbelieve something, it's the same thing. Openly question this and question yourself, or end up becoming a stooge for the fear-mongering control-freaks.

Originally posted by Lionhearte
To answer your question, no, the Trinity did not exist before the Word became Flesh. However, the Word IS God, so the Trinity, though not existing in 325 B.C., Jesus still existed, because Jesus is the Word, and the Word was with God from the beginning.

So, again; No. The trinity did not exist before Christ became Flesh, but Christ existed since the beginning - because He is God.

I've never heard this before.

Anyway, is it safe to say that when Christ became flesh, he also became his own father? I mean, it does appear that way. He is the father and he is also the son. He is his own father....if they are all the same being?

reply to post by Hydroman


Not exactly, but at the same time, yes. Jesus always said that the Father is greater then him, such as in John 14:28 - “You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I."

Jesus spoke this as he was Flesh. God is infinitely greater than the Flesh, so it is a true statement. However, as he says in other parts, such as in John 10:30 he says - "The Father and I are one."

So, God is the Father, God is the Son, God is the Holy Spirit. It's upside down, but remember my analogy. The Sun consists of Heat, but is Heat greater than the Sun, which also consists of Light, Energy, Mass?

Are we humans greater than the hearts that pump our blood?
Is Planet Earth greater than Nature?
Is our Universe greater than the infinite atoms that make up.. everything?

Originally posted by Lionhearte
Are we humans greater than the hearts that pump our blood?
Is Planet Earth greater than Nature?
Is our Universe greater than the infinite atoms that make up.. everything?

I'm not sure if these questions correlate with a god entity and his three parts, none of which are female btw.

Anyway, you guys take care. I'll be gone for about a week. I'm taking my family on vacation for spring break. I don't think I've ever been off work during spring break, so we're excited!

reply to post by Hydroman


It's just an analogy, the best I can do on short notice lol.

Have fun with you and your family, I pray you have a safe trip. Can't wait for you to return and we go at each others' throats again

reply to post by Lionhearte

Jesus spoke this as he was Flesh. God is infinitely greater than the Flesh, so it is a true statement. However, as he says in other parts, such as in John 10:30 he says - "The Father and I are one."

When Jesus spoke this, he was doing so from a position of humiliation. Yahweh had to diminish and take on human form before he could bear the sin of the world. Jesus is God, he said it and according to the Tamud it's what got him crucified...he was crucified for blasphemy (saying he was the Heavenly Father).

Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by Lionhearte
Are we humans greater than the hearts that pump our blood?
Is Planet Earth greater than Nature?
Is our Universe greater than the infinite atoms that make up.. everything?

I'm not sure if these questions correlate with a god entity and his three parts, none of which are female btw.

Anyway, you guys take care. I'll be gone for about a week. I'm taking my family on vacation for spring break. I don't think I've ever been off work during spring break, so we're excited!

Be safe and have a great time.

reply to post by AdamsMurmur


LOL your funny, why don't you look at his posts and threads and you will see that he's nothing but a religion troll.

reply to post by Hydroman


be cool... live it up!

and plz no de-converting of others while you're out there.

Originally posted by Evanzsayz
reply to post by AdamsMurmur

 

LOL your funny, why don't you look at his posts and threads and you will see that he's nothing but a religion troll.

I figured that out a long time ago bro, because he gravitates to anything that is about God/Jesus to troll believers in an effort to make them look foolish and i rarely ever see him post outside religion or conspiracies in religion.