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ET deception -- WHY?

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posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 11:53 AM
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Originally posted by justwokeup
The idea that aliens would choose flaky nobodies to be the conduit of messages to humanity is preposterous.

Right, because if they chose famous people that would make all the difference, right? Is that what you're implying?

Please. Detractors would still not believe a famous person over some "flake." In fact, the condemnation would be even greater if the person chosen was prominent.




posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 12:08 PM
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Originally posted by Aliensun


When the UFOs land, we will be expected to have matured sufficiently that all of Earth will not fall down on its knees in a new religious frenzy to worship the UFO folk as pure God. This is to say while it is a given that humans eventually must and will embrace the ETs, we can do so holding our heads held high in appreciation of what has been done for us and continue, intelligently, on with their help. Or despite the best actions of world governments, the people of the planet could wallow in a air of defeatism and depression that has happen to so many “defeated” civilizations over history. Such would bring an era of a new Dark Ages from which most civilizations could not survive, ETs providing support or not. Such times would be fueled by such sweeping, extreme and fanatical religions that will humans that will head in various directions, namely, to glorify or demonize the UFO folk and/or ourselves.

That, my friends, is the only way that the human creature can absorb what it must accept about, what we can roughly call, our helpers, our gods or our devils.


Thanks. This is the type of response I was hoping for. The interesting thing is that there are many different ET races here. I don't know if they are from other planets or other dimensions or both (most likely, I'd guess). Either way, to pull this off, to get us where we need to be, it would seem they would have to work together and share at least one rule or principal in their interactions with us. It that's the case, that fact alone is fascinating to comprehend.

It looks as though they still view us as childish and maybe that's why they lie -- something like when we might lie to a child to protect them.



posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 12:12 PM
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Originally posted by justwokeup
Or the contactees your talking of could simply be delusional people.

The idea that aliens would choose flaky nobodies to be the conduit of messages to humanity is preposterous. For the failed predictions of these people to be used as evidence of Alien perfidy is so absurd I don't have words for it.

By talking about these people you are sticking a dagger in the eye of the UFO topic. Is it any wonder serious people run a mile from it?


The people I mentioned are probably just very trusting. If you somehow heard from an alien intelligence and your personality was such that it would cause you to easily trust them, you'd believe what they told you. I don't believe these people are "flaky" necessarily -- they've simply relayed to us what they've been told. There's no reason to insult them. Remember, we have billions of people believing in various gods who have also made failed promises.

Besides, why are you so afraid to talk about this?



posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 12:21 PM
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Originally posted by prevenge

Eeeasy there n00by champ.. yeah you've gotten yer chops on some meaty UFO material.. yeah.. some info on the Greys.. ooh.. o wait some websites bout the Loooominateeee... no wait .. you found some info bout their joint agenda at the Holoman AFB??... noooo waaaaayz!!....

and you haven't had a few decades to sit back and ponder about it all.. you're just sitting there with it all freshly jivving in your brain.. and it ALL must be EVIL that is posed against YOU and the human RAAACE right?...

am i right..

i'm right arent i...



WTF are you talking about? Been drinking? You can't read very well, can you?


Originally posted by prevenge
an yeah.. i bet you've done ZERO research into the Gnostic texts of religion that hint at the fact that the Greys are the Archons that prevent us from fulfilling our destiny by actually making people like YOU think that religion is a sort of "wall" where in actuality.. through the riddles of their twisted words.. at the deeproot Gnostic level.. its the answer OUT of this hellhole of reality....
but you wouldn't consider that because you're young and impervious to reason and just wanna ccuse everyone outside of yourself and presume it's ALL about conspiring against you right bra?... thought so...




"religion...is the answer OUT of this hellhole..." You have a lot to learn. Religion at some point is keeping us spiritually stunted. There is no spiritual growth with religion. That's my opinion. But you, on the other hand, seem to have a firm grasp of something, it's just not reality. And WTF is this "bra" crap? Are you 12 years old?


Originally posted by prevenge
see.. just chill the F out and ponder life the universe and everything and what YOU would do if you were faced with a planet full of completely vicious barbaric indiscriminate people....
plus a few wholesome ones..... but very few (percentage wise)....

... just take things IN man.. and relax.. and wait a couple years before you start making all these brash earth-ending decisions about how you see things....

trust me...

take some time...



I've been researching this since 1972 when I had my first experience with whatever you want to call them. I've read it all but I'm not so arrogant to say I know it all because I don't. That includes your reference to Archons. Remember, deny ignorance, don't embrace it.



edit on 1-4-2012 by Visiting ESB because: try to fix formatting -- ??


justwokeup

posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 01:14 PM
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Originally posted by LeaderofLostSouls

Originally posted by justwokeup
The idea that aliens would choose flaky nobodies to be the conduit of messages to humanity is preposterous.

Right, because if they chose famous people that would make all the difference, right? Is that what you're implying?

Please. Detractors would still not believe a famous person over some "flake." In fact, the condemnation would be even greater if the person chosen was prominent.


It simply makes no sense whatever. If you have a message to send why choose a method of transmitting it with a close to zero chance of success.

Why whisper in the ear of a person at all?

Thats why I consign all these ' i'm special and the aliens talk to me' people to the desperate nut job category. If they are asking for cash they make it all the way to 'charlatan'.


LeaderofLostSouls

posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 01:31 PM
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Originally posted by justwokeup
It simply makes no sense whatever. If you have a message to send why choose a method of transmitting it with a close to zero chance of success.

OK, it's obvious you've thought all this out.

How would YOU send it?


Aliensun

posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 01:45 PM
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Originally posted by frugal
Obviously, anyone who deceives and manipulates likes the artifical power it gives them. They are not honest, don't care about you/ us, and needs you/ us to do something they are unable to do. There are books out there on manipulative people and why they bully others. These people are in their own living hell.
edit on 1-4-2012 by frugal because: sp


I assume you are reference some personal experience of your and are not relating directly to the topic at hand.
The UFO business on both sides, from the ET side and the government side is a propaganda campaign of long-standing duration. It can be said that both use the same matra, the words of Jack Nickolson in the movie A Few Good Men "You can't handle the truth." If you dwell on it, that is about all you need to know. Your mileage you get out of that may vary.

(Bullying has absolutely nothing to do with it.)


greyer

posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 01:46 PM
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Originally posted by frugal
Obviously, anyone who deceives and manipulates likes the artifical power it gives them. They are not honest, don't care about you/ us, and needs you/ us to do something they are unable to do. There are books out there on manipulative people and why they bully others. These people are in their own living hell.
edit on 1-4-2012 by frugal because: sp


I know people are like that but we cannot compare human psychology and sociology with alien psychology and actions. The ET deception is actually something that demonstrates a more friendly and caring side of the aliens. They are basically saying "we will take advantage of your species in secret rather than letting you know," as humans understand that what is not known to us will not hurt us mentally. So it is out of respect that aliens do not let us remember anything about them. It is also in the best interest of them aliens to keep themselves secret so they can still take advantage of the planet species they are studying and are involved with without interuptions.


justwokeup

posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 02:18 PM
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Originally posted by LeaderofLostSouls

Originally posted by justwokeup
It simply makes no sense whatever. If you have a message to send why choose a method of transmitting it with a close to zero chance of success.

OK, it's obvious you've thought all this out.

How would YOU send it?


Mass appearances. Over population centres at low altitude. Persistently.

Followed by overriding all the TV stations with a non threatening broadcast.

Repeat as required.


justwokeup

posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 02:45 PM
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Originally posted by Visiting ESB

Originally posted by justwokeup
Or the contactees your talking of could simply be delusional people.

The idea that aliens would choose flaky nobodies to be the conduit of messages to humanity is preposterous. For the failed predictions of these people to be used as evidence of Alien perfidy is so absurd I don't have words for it.

By talking about these people you are sticking a dagger in the eye of the UFO topic. Is it any wonder serious people run a mile from it?


The people I mentioned are probably just very trusting. If you somehow heard from an alien intelligence and your personality was such that it would cause you to easily trust them, you'd believe what they told you. I don't believe these people are "flaky" necessarily -- they've simply relayed to us what they've been told. There's no reason to insult them. Remember, we have billions of people believing in various gods who have also made failed promises.

Besides, why are you so afraid to talk about this?


Its not fear, its frustration. As long as there are 'Blossom Goodchilds' and all that ilk being given credence on UFO sites the topic will remain toxic.

As long as it remains toxic there will be no serious investigation of the issue by mainstream science and whatever truth there is will remain undetermined.

I think a lot of people use the topic for 'UFO Lore Online Role Play'. I think its unhelpful.

If my post was excessively grumpy I apologise.


LeaderofLostSouls

posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 03:00 PM
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Originally posted by justwokeup
Mass appearances. Over population centres at low altitude. Persistently.

Followed by overriding all the TV stations with a non threatening broadcast.

Repeat as required.

OK, you realize this has happened (minus the non-threatening TV broadcast) and still no one believes.

I don't think it's up for us, in our obvious limited understanding, to question why something has or hasn't been done. The fact that you try and apply human actions to what extraterrestrial should do (i.e. motivations) cannot be done because we are not them, hence, we do not think like them.
edit on 1-4-2012 by LeaderofLostSouls because: (no reason given)


justwokeup

posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 03:06 PM
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Originally posted by LeaderofLostSouls

Originally posted by justwokeup
Mass appearances. Over population centres at low altitude. Persistently.

Followed by overriding all the TV stations with a non threatening broadcast.

Repeat as required.

OK, you realize this has happened and still no one believes.


No. It hasn't. Not persistently. If a massive UFO was hovering over london or paris for a couple of hours the topic would not be in the sidelines.

If there were intelligences desiring communication this could all be beyond doubt in a single afternoon.


LeaderofLostSouls

posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 03:10 PM
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reply to post by justwokeup
 


Whenever a mass sighting has occurred it is written off as A. Mass hallucination, B. A flock of birds misidentified C. Other terrestrial object misidentified.

"If they desired communication..." There you go. You answered yourself. They obviously don't desire communication.

An advanced species wouldn't give a rat's ass if the subjects they were studying could see them or not. This would leave them to operate with no discretion at all leaving them to come and go as they please as all the evidence supports. Why should they care if they can be seen when we can't do anything about it nevermind even explaining what they are to begin with.

What makes you think they desire to communicate with us?


justwokeup

posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 03:22 PM
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Originally posted by LeaderofLostSouls
reply to post by justwokeup
 


Whenever a mass sighting has occurred it is written off as A. Mass hallucination, B. A flock of birds misidentified C. Other terrestrial object misidentified.

"If they desired communication..." There you go. You answered yourself. They obviously don't desire communication.

An advanced species wouldn't give a rat's ass if the subjects they were studying could see them or not. This would leave them to operate with no discretion at all leaving them to come and go as they please as all the evidence supports. Why should they care if they can be seen when we can't do anything about it nevermind even explaining what they are to begin with.

What makes you think they desire to communicate with us?


What? We entered this discourse with you defending the plausibility of messages from alien contactees.

Thats been my point all along.

If they wanted to communicate they could. By the methods i've described or others equally effective. The fact they don't means they either don't exist or don't want to communicate.

At no point does ET sending mental messages to random people make any sense.


eyesontheskies

posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 03:35 PM
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reply to post by Visiting ESB
 


I think humans are deceiving themselves. Honestly i believe that these people making predictions and saying that they are contactees are lying.


eyesontheskies

posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 03:40 PM
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Originally posted by prevenge

Originally posted by Visiting ESB

1. ETs are deceiving us
2. ETs created powerful instruments of deception: religion
3. Believers will be disappointed yet again by failed predictions
4. The purpose of such deception is unknown.


Eeeasy there n00by champ.. yeah you've gotten yer chops on some meaty UFO material.. yeah.. some info on the Greys.. ooh.. o wait some websites bout the Loooominateeee... no wait .. you found some info bout their joint agenda at the Holoman AFB??... noooo waaaaayz!!....

and you haven't had a few decades to sit back and ponder about it all.. you're just sitting there with it all freshly jivving in your brain.. and it ALL must be EVIL that is posed against YOU and the human RAAACE right?...

am i right..

i'm right arent i...

an yeah.. i bet you've done ZERO research into the Gnostic texts of religion that hint at the fact that the Greys are the Archons that prevent us from fulfilling our destiny by actually making people like YOU think that religion is a sort of "wall" where in actuality.. through the riddles of their twisted words.. at the deeproot Gnostic level.. its the answer OUT of this hellhole of reality....
but you wouldn't consider that because you're young and impervious to reason and just wanna ccuse everyone outside of yourself and presume it's ALL about conspiring against you right bra?... thought so...

see.. just chill the F out and ponder life the universe and everything and what YOU would do if you were faced with a planet full of completely vicious barbaric indiscriminate people....
plus a few wholesome ones..... but very few (percentage wise)....

... just take things IN man.. and relax.. and wait a couple years before you start making all these brash earth-ending decisions about how you see things....

trust me...

take some time...




edit on 4/1/2012 by prevenge because: (no reason given)

edit on 4/1/2012 by prevenge because: (no reason given)


Why do you feel like it is necessary to act so rude to someone?


LeaderofLostSouls

posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 03:41 PM
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reply to post by justwokeup
 

Understood. And I'm simply following the train of thought from that because you said why do they choose flaky people. I said it doesn't matter who they chose since the wouldn't be believed. Then I asked how would you communicate, etc. I'm not changing sides, just going with the logical flow of the conversation.

I do agree with you that if they parked over a major city (as depicted in the movies) that would get our attention. But then I said obviously they don't appear to want to do it that way which led to me saying why would they want to contact us. I should've perhaps clarified "on a mass scale." Sorry for the confusion.

No matter. The point still stands that we can't question how they choose to make themselves known (i.e. through random people). Maybe that's "safer" for them because they realize people won't believe individuals?

Like I said before, I don't think it's our place to question why they do things the way they do because we are not them and don't have their mindset. What appears to be illogical to us may make total and complete sense to them.

That's all


mbkennel

posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 04:20 PM
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I think the possibilities considered typically are too predictable along the "space brother vs demon" axis.

Consider a 'political' explanation. There are multiple groups/nations/races/political parties of ETs and there are certain agreements and treaties among themselves dealing with the interaction with the aboriginal natives like us.

Nevertheless, the various ET factions are not all chummy with each other and there is various "Cold War" type of rivalry for influence or preventing influence of humans.

Then possibly some ETs may want to come here for their own harvesting of biological resources (for their own needs) explaining the various 'medical tests' that abductees claim. Maybe some others think this is illegal?

The ETs are not afraid of us, but they are afraid of, or at least mindful of, the reactions from their other ET rivals.

So they come to Earth for their own selfish reasons but BS humans about their motives and do not make any clear overt contact because they are afraid of the political consequences which would ensue if another ET group had conclusive evidence about what they were doing. Any group doing harvesting of biological resources would probably BS to the victims to try to preclude armed resistance which would ensue if they told the truth. (and they apparently can't conceive of the idea of being open and asking for volunteers in return for something valuable to us)

Possibly other ETs coming to Earth are more of the "police" or "United Federation of Planets investigation team" to see what some of the other rogue ETs are up to.

Whatever they're doing (if any in fact are coming here---an issue on which I remain agnostic), our needs and sanity are not on their priority list. Just like colonialism---a main motivation in the 19th century colonial era was that "Well, Germany's going to get this one so we better colonize its neighbor as fast as we can"---the politics between the great powers had consequences among the savages.


edit on 1-4-2012 by mbkennel because: (no reason given)

edit on 1-4-2012 by mbkennel because: (no reason given)


mbkennel

posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 04:29 PM
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Originally posted by LeaderofLostSouls
reply to post by justwokeup
 


Whenever a mass sighting has occurred it is written off as A. Mass hallucination, B. A flock of birds misidentified C. Other terrestrial object misidentified.

"If they desired communication..." There you go. You answered yourself. They obviously don't desire communication.


This is true, or at least the most dominant ET around doesn't want or permit overt and comprehensive communication.


An advanced species wouldn't give a rat's ass if the subjects they were studying could see them or not. This would leave them to operate with no discretion at all leaving them to come and go as they please as all the evidence supports. Why should they care if they can be seen when we can't do anything about it nevermind even explaining what they are to begin with.


It is possible that
a) we could do a little bit about it which would annoy them more
b) they do have to worry about reactions from other ETs

So it's conceivably possible that one group wants to communicate with us but really can't because of the bad things which would happen to them, from other ETs, if they did.



What makes you think they desire to communicate with us?

edit on 1-4-2012 by mbkennel because: (no reason given)


Gibonz

posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 04:48 PM
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Originally posted by DaTroof
Think about it. There are no aliens.


Got any proof to back up that bold statement?

Thanks



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