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Paul Bennewitz case re-opened: X Descending (a mini book review)

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posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 01:18 AM
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I realize that in an open forum there is no requirement that the posts stay focused so that the purpose or value in a thread isn't totally lost. But since this thread was started by Carddown in reference to my book, I'd like to make an observation, if only so that new readers of this thread aren't confused by what it has fallen in to.

I've noticed that what began as a thread relating to my book about the evidence Paul had (specifically his films over the MWSA), has been diverted almost exclusively to talk of pictures that allegedly appeared on Paul's computer screen. The conversation, much of it by Greyer and Imtor, seems to have spun far afield and the discussion is now about things that are extremely questionable and, at least for my part, have little to do with what I believe are the important larger questions that could be discussed. I focused only on what Paul had seen and filmed before he ever contacted the Air Force because everything afterward was necessarily suspect.

Purported alien images on computer screens, talk of underground bases, and even subjects like MJ Twelve, should be held as questionable because of what we now know. I understand that they make for interesting talk, but I want to make it clear to any readers that these are not subjects I consider worth dwelling on in ways that over emphasize their significance in the Paul Bennewitz story. In fact, I think Paul himself may eventually have begun to have doubts and suspicions about them.

Curiously, these very same topics now seem to have taken over this thread. It's as if the same topics that were used to distract Paul--and everyone else--back in the 1980's are again being played up to muddy what might be a space for more productive discussion. How or why that's happened is a situation we should at least be aware of.

It's not my place to say that people should not talk about whatever they please. But I feel there are more important areas that could be discussed. What may have brought these vehicles into this area on those nights? Why were so many vehicles necessary? Where were they coming from on the far side of the MWSA? Where did they go once they left the area? Why were none of Doty's superiors ever confronted with Doty's actions and orders? I'm sure there are others.

Surely there are better things that could be discussed than to fall back into speculative talk of whether aliens looked like birds or reptiles, or alien base stories and crashed ship claims are in any way productive now.
-Chris L.




posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 04:29 AM
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reply to post by chrislx
 
Fair comment Chris. I think, and I include me in this, some of us find the computer aspect interesting as it gives a glimpse of the security apparatus surrounding Bennewitz.

You're quite right to point out the thread is focused on your book. The thing is, ATS threads rarely follow a coherent, linear path and posts are frequently misinterpreted. Sometimes it's a great thing and sometimes not..

I've read some of the book and found it well-written and fairly sober. It was intriguing to read of the Bennewitz who existed before the mythology and supposition had been heaped on him. Regarding the film-footage, those stills are reminiscent of the colour shots from the 1977 Colares flap in Brazil. This for example, looks similar...



I guess I'll have to buy the book (and a Kindle) to learn more about the footage. In the history of studying UFOs (including vehicles beyond our known technology) a lot of the evidence has disappeared; images and frames from film simply missing and suspected as confiscated. This makes me wonder why a national and base security apparatus wouldn't do the same with Stanford's Bennewitz film? Hopefully in the book there's some provenance to reassure the reader of its origins.

I have to say that incursions at bases are fascinating and somewhat ominous if taken at face value. Tulien's Minot AFB treatment from last year leaves it very difficult to avoid thinking about exotic technologies from Elsewhere. Likewise, the late 70s 'mystery helicopter' incidents around Loring AFB makes one wonder.



posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 09:08 AM
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reply to post by chrislx
 

Chris,

Many thanks for the book, that I emailed to my iPad as you suggested.

Having read it three times, I totally agree with your comments above. In fact you took the words out of my mouth

I think your book is one of the two most important scientific books published in the UFO/UAP area in the last ten years. The other is Leslie Kean's.

Coupled with Dr Bennewitz's insightful scientific comments, the enhanced stills from Bennewitz's Manzano film are immensely challenging. And your insights into Leik Myrabo's use of Ray Stanford's filmed material should be read by all scientific UFO researchers.

Let's hope Kean and John Alexander digest your material before their forthcoming Cosmic Exploration Conference. I'm myself hoping they'll digest my own observations on the silly "authentic alien artifact' exhibit, made on this thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...


I've a long list of science questions I'd like to put to you in due course, either on this thread, or, if it continues its off-topic course (apart from Kandinsky's post, of course), directly to your email, if I may.

Cheers - and, once again, many thanks.



posted on Jun, 4 2012 @ 05:42 PM
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My thanks to Kandinsky and Lowneck for understanding my comments. I also am interested in what Paul was picking up on his computer, and having had some communication wirh Greg Valdez recently, I hope he can once and for all show us what the screen images looked like. But I feel that there should be real effort, for posterity if nothing else, to focus on the vehicles that Paul filmed at least as much as all the other subplots that sprang up in the months and years afterward.

A point I would also like to make regarding Ray stanford's film is that I focused on this particular Corpus Christi, Texas film because of what I knew about Myrabo's connection to it...and the connection between both films and the Air Force Research Laboratory (or the old AFWL). But, in my opinion, Stanford's Corpus Christi fim, as important as it is, is just the tip of the iceberg as far as what he has that you all should see.

To address the question of why there was an effort made to "defuse" Paul Bennewitz but, apparently, no one has tried to stop what Ray has to show, my own suspicion as of now is that it's a matter of who would be called in to account, or who might be exposed. Paul filmed these vehicles in the Air Force's front yard. Either they knew it was happening, or they didn't...either way they would be on the proverbial hot seat if it got out.
If you or I filmed something significant in our own front yard, maybe we would know how to recognize its significance, but we very well might not. In either case, if the Air Force got wind of it they'd probably hrug and tell you to call MUFON...which would probably be the end of it.

Ray studies what he has, privately for the most part but not exclusively, and I think that approach has paid off just as his personal work in paleontology has now been recognized by many experts and the Smithsonian. He is a unique individual, and having seen what he has and worked on some of it myself...there are things I've seen that I cannot explain even to my own satisfaction...but some of it has made the hair stand up on my arm. I'm sure everyone will see it eventually, but Ray is willing to show it to anyone who is seriously interested enough to make the effort--just as Myrabo did. What you haven't seen yet is far more profound.

If the Coast To Coast AM show comes off as scheduled on June 17th, hopefully I can address more of my thoughts about Paul's and Ray's films.
-Chris L.



posted on Jun, 5 2012 @ 06:52 PM
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reply to post by greyer
 


I am not convicting you of anything, I was left with the impression that you were talking about a photo, now it's clear.

To tell you, all these stories about fights with aliens, bargains with aliens, spaceship and beam weapons... and aliens, sounds too fictious to me. I am only saying that Phil Schneider may have had some real story, the fight with aliens, could have been made up, the video about New Mexico I watched one of the men said 'Suicide cannot be excluded' - now I agree but why? Wouldn't he write a final letter to explain?

GVALDEZ - said he would bring a picture of the supposed not so natural spots in the Archuleta Mesa - I would like to bring that video for comparison commented by Norio Hayakawa - is this the 'crack' in the ground?



reply to post by chrislx
 


Sorry for bringing these pictures but you should understand - at least I can speak for myself I do not believe any of these pictures especially the Arcturian one that looked like an insect's head blurred and mixed and made unclear to look 'real'

As it was said earlier about R Hastings - let's not try to sell a book here, shall we? I understand that you have what to say about the topic and it may make people wonder - but so are many like you in the field with books, you are equal, you would get as much attention from mainstream media and any1 who wants to bring the public attention, as any other researcher - not much attention.

As R. Hastings posted and on his site - Doty is a disinformer, I make that conclusion as well based on the facts that Hasting showed me about Doty

Of course it is highly speculative, talking about aliens is laughable, or why is it? No one wakes up with so advanced technology all of a sudden, right? And the idea that they are using fake alien stories to cover up their own technology does not seem true - promoting aliens only make people ask more questions than get dustracted.

Or promoting aliens to hide spy technology - I know this is an unannounced Cold War 2 - but the level of technology seems way out of naturally processing discoveries and inventions

The problem is researchers can bring slightly more than someone who doesn't even talk to these people who have worked there but even that tells us the same old stories. It needs either all people to stand up and face all secrets and globally protest against the secrecy, or some whisleblower to make sure real information reaches the mass media and nothing gets hidden for once.



edit on 5-6-2012 by Imtor because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 9 2012 @ 11:09 AM
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Originally posted by Imtor
reply to post by greyer
 


I am not convicting you of anything, I was left with the impression that you were talking about a photo, now it's clear.

To tell you, all these stories about fights with aliens, bargains with aliens, spaceship and beam weapons... and aliens, sounds too fictious to me. I am only saying that Phil Schneider may have had some real story, the fight with aliens, could have been made up, the video about New Mexico I watched one of the men said 'Suicide cannot be excluded' - now I agree but why? Wouldn't he write a final letter to explain?


Phil Schneider's story isn't a question to me, but it is a story of human activities which still leaves open the possibility of aliens locating themselves near the 4 corners area in past history. Budd Hopkins who was very close to the alien abductions thought it very foolish to think of a treaty between humans and the beings behind them (President Eisenhower at the Muroc Test Center in 1954 and a treaty with greys at Holloman in 1964). He could not imagine an alien walking up to a human with a clipboard, telling who they are abducting and not. These tales were suggested in the late seventies from other sources than Bennewitz. It is much more believable to suggest that Germans were working on UFO technology since the early 30s and the government created stories to keep the public occupied by the 70s. Yet the abductions were giving real evidence of transdimensional beings who could do whatever they liked, which through research concluded to be a breeding program and study of human psychology and emotions. So if there was an alien base by the 4 corners, it is too hard to believe humans had access, it is too hard to believe humans physically provided the bases because aliens are not in our dimension. It is easier to believe that the base was transdimensional itself, as aliens can shapeshift and UFOs can grow changing shapes the base would probably be able to do the same. In the present time their are some people who talk on shows, and there are researchers helping the people affected years ago, but most strange UFO related accounts are not of the handful we have had since O'hare and Stephenville. There were 1,000s of people who encountered strange events during the past, all unwilling to say anything about it publicly, making it much easier to believe in people from outer space compared to a black ops triangle craft flying silently over a desert city, which may be rare but isn't that fantastic.

Our thoughts in this thread are giving us a chance to hear the real story from those who were there, because there are so much more facts to the Paul Bennewitz story than 'strange lights' or UFO videos, which were very small part of Paul's research into proving the alien existence. It may be entertaining but it is not important to discuss UFOs, they were common like household items - it is important to achieve the knowledge that we have been visited by ETs.



posted on Jun, 9 2012 @ 02:15 PM
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reply to post by greyer
 


I see most of the UFOs stories in the Americas - North and South, less in other continents. I think there are way too many objects flying in the Americas or too big military presenece all over, which wouldf suggest quite human origin. In my country, there is barely even one case and it sounds bogus and our military power has been shrunk so much, that barely military, barely any UFOs - makes sense almost like connected.

Yes sure, waiting for more info about Paul Bennewitz from GValdez if he wishes to provide, but it seems the result will be the same as any other 'real deal, not like any other information before!!!' threads



posted on Jun, 10 2012 @ 02:18 PM
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Originally posted by Blue Shift
Oh, this stuff is just as much of a hairball as I remember when I originally tried to parse it out ten years ago! I recall ditching the whole aliens and humans in cahoots stories as being way off the believably scale, but the photographic evidence remains intriguing. Maybe I'll take another run at it, now that some of the dust has settled.


Onward Blue Shifting Soldier...



posted on Jun, 21 2012 @ 02:26 PM
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Now online: The episode of Coast to Coast with Christian Lambright is on YouTube
Much coverage of the Paul Bennewitz case including references to our conversation here.



posted on Jun, 22 2012 @ 02:52 AM
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reply to post by CardDown
 


Thank you. I will comment it whenever I have time, this is worth watching and so long. Let's get back to the topic, I think some of the researchers have been repulsed by the 'aliens' talkabout which sounds childish presented in this way and our talking about alien bases, so let's get serious on it.



posted on Jun, 27 2012 @ 04:45 PM
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Originally posted by Imtor
reply to post by CardDown
 


Thank you. I will comment it whenever I have time, this is worth watching and so long. Let's get back to the topic, I think some of the researchers have been repulsed by the 'aliens' talkabout which sounds childish presented in this way and our talking about alien bases, so let's get serious on it.


Good! You start!

Go!



posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 02:27 AM
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Christian P. Lambright came to this thread almost complaining that this thread was derailed into discussing childish stories such as Dulce, underground bases, aliens, instead of what this thread is about, his book 'X Descending'. After the interview which was heck of a long , 2 hr 34 minutes with the breaks being cut out, I think that still counts as getting an idea what his book is about, what he thinks and getting back to the thread's purpose.

I will make some remarks on the things he claims:

Chris Lambright claims that the whole Dulce and underground bases stories have been all fabricated and come from the disinformation that was to reach (and did reach) Paul Bennewitz, all fabircated by the USAF and agents working as counter-intelligence. If that means that all these stories are fake, I absolutely disagree with it. Underground bases and some of the technology being moved and tested is a reality. You can find such information here:

Underground Reality

Underground Bases and Tunnels with Richard Sauder

The guys are credible enough to talk what they talk and it is the existence of underground bases and some connected to each other obviously. There is no talk about aliens, in fact, underground bases should not be associated with:

• Reptilians, Flash Gun, aliens of any kind, 'Nightmare Hall' or anything related to the story of Thomas Castello, whose existence is questionable, and the stories seem too far fetched to be even disinfo
• aliens or other known as Tall Greys and Greys encountered by Phil Schneider - this part is doubtful - but the part where he claims the existence of underground bases and that he may have worked as engineer in one of them including Dulce - - true, you can see many people involved in the research or former employees pointing to that direction

And taking aliens away and any crazy stories, you are left with pure claims and proof showing the existence of underground bases,

The rest of the interview with Christian P. Lambright, it becomes clear in his book he describes in details all the actions to lead Paul Bennewitz to his end, discussing how Richard Doty and Billy Moore have actively taken part in the disinfo. As Robert Hastings has stated and written a detailed information exposing Doty and Moore as disinformers and counter-intelligent agents. Big thanks to the interviewer for clarifying and briefly explaining the things Chris Lambright says.

However, while someone has to do the job to go through the disinformers part, it's clear that who mislead who to believe what doesn't reveal anything. i understand that there is no access to answers such as - why was the Dulce story created, why is the whole disinfo happening, like what are they hiding? But it's obvious that the details around who told what information to lie to X person, isn't that relevant, it is enough to point out there has been counter-intelligence people and the big question 'WHY?' still remains.

In other words the book does reveal a lot of information around Paul Bennewitz but imo doesn't get any deeper to answer that big 'Why?/What for?' question.



Oh and here is a picture posted on the C2CAM website, that C. L. obviously had access to and is real picture of 'something', a UFO, and this picture made by Paul Bennewitz. Problem is, why the bad quality when he was even given access to some computers by Hynek and he had a 250 mm telescope (reflector I suppose, they reduce the aberrations more than refractors), if I understood correctly from the interview.

At least I am a little more familiar with the Bennewitz case now but it's like it doesn't tell us anything, other than the details how Bennewitz was led to insanity, blame the case around Bennewitz, not the book.
edit on 29-6-2012 by Imtor because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 08:12 PM
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Originally posted by CardDown
Now online: The episode of Coast to Coast with Christian Lambright is on YouTube
Much coverage of the Paul Bennewitz case including references to our conversation here.


Thank you for the link CardDown I thoroughly enjoyed the interview, I am a fan of C2CAM and I think this is one of the best episodes I have heard. Chris Lambright is very impressive. There is not much to argue about with the interview. Many points that needed to be made where made. There is information within that brings the case to a whole new level of depthness.

George Knapp isn't one to conclude anything based on Myrna Hansen's hypnosis sessions. I'm not sure anyone know the details of this case from the interviews I have heard - what Myrna saw and remembered before the abduction and without hypnosis, the other witnesses who were there. The fact that Paul measured the frequencies of a metallic looking object in the back of her head by August of 1980, after she spoke of being implanted by aliens under hypnosis.

Paul Bennewitz mentions being in 'direct confrontation' with aliens since 1977, and reports that the Dulce area was under observation in 1978. There is plenty foundation for Paul believing in the Dulce base before Myrna came to his house. Interesting that Paul had video of UFOs around Dulce. This I figured because he had set up a monitoring station with Manuel Gomez in '79.

UFO researcher Timothy Good supports that nearby the Manzano mountains there is in fact an alien underground base like there is in Dulce as mentioned through his sources. Surprisingly, Timothy was taken to the perimeter by Colonel Earnest Edwards and who seemed very convinced and pointed some areas out. Colonel Edwards doesn't seem to be part of the disinformation campaign.




Chris mentions that he has heard Paul's computer pictures were in fact clear, interestingly. Bill Moore was pointed out through research how he arrived on the scene. It was said that Paul had a best friend from his company helping him who was a Chinese computer scientist, I would believe that over the Hynek computer program story.

The main unresolved question from the interview is why Paul was mad at John Lear? John has always spoke well of Paul.

I still think it may be factual - that stories of underground alien bases, beams coming from UFOs abducting people/cattle, and alien implants which transfer signals to the UFOs, did not come from counter intelligence sources but came from the research of Paul Bennewitz, that he may have stumbled upon things that were true and revealed the reality that was surely not wanted to be known by those behind the UFO cover-up.


A interesting excerpts from Project Beta by Greg Bishop -




For some strange reason, the Government has gone totally out of phase with me and in addition to the continuing phone taps - put AF Intelligence on my tail. This occurred after they covertly sent satellites and photo recon over the alien base I had briefed them on. They tried to rig our cars with beepers and I caught one of them in the act. They also installed a covert ECM setup in a vacant Town House directly across the street from ours to figure out how I was communicating and receiving view screen pictures. I could sense their sweeps on my equipment. To my knowledge they got nothing. Looks like DOD [Department of Defense] AF Intel - all of them are mixed up in it. It's actually crazy - at one time AF Intel was tailing me and OSI was tailing them and telling me!

-Paul Bennewitz August 8, 1981 to APRO




To make it an official part of the record at this time, I feel it necessary to point out in summary that:

1) At the outset, I gave freely of information in the form of data and official Military Wing Command briefings because of a deep concern for the safety of my nation.

2) I liaisoned frequently with OSI again freely giving data as it became available though I was personally financing the investigation and related costs.

3) Yet Air Force Intelligence chose to place me under electronic and personal surveillance; in addition to phone taps on all lines, rather than come to me directly and freely discuss the situation.

4) Let it stand—that in spite of this previous and continuing unjustifiable harassment, I am trying one last time because of my total concern....

-Paul Bennewitz December 2nd, 1981 to the Pentagon



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 03:18 AM
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reply to post by chrislx
 

Chris,

Evidently wikipedia continues to propagate disinformation about Paul Bennewitz:

en.wikipedia.org...

But did Paul in fact fail his Ph.D. in physics? If his analytical ability was weak, that might help explain why he was so easily led astray.

Cheers.



posted on Jul, 15 2012 @ 12:14 PM
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Paul Bennewitz, to my knowledge did not get the Ph.D. only because he was too busy. He was making instruments to go on NASA flight shuttles, he had a growing company that was greatly reduced after the mysterious events ocurring later than 1985, everybody around him regarded him as a genius who would not need school. Yet, there is a place and time when people would regard Paul as 'unstable.' Another mysterious aspect of the story, Paul seemed unstable in early 1980 when his vision was still good and he seemed to be the amazing genious that he was. This story is very interesting, because it is proposed that Paul became unstable before counter intelligence got to him because he was witnessing something alien. The percent chance of this being true is increased because of the strange cattle mutilations and 'abductions' occuring during the era. Paul was on to it first, and perhaps the one and only to ever discover that aliens visited earth, with discovering an object in the back of a girl's head which emitted electronic frequencies - this is never discussed on the UFO field, I see that hard topics to explain are usually avoided by veteran researchers today.


Wikipedia, I don't think you are disinforming, I think you don't know anything about the story. I think hardly anyone knows about this story, not because counter intelligence did a darn good job making people think that the frequencies Paul was picking up were from their own programs, but because abductions and cattle mutilations are too hard for them to believe but not too hard for law enforcement of Colorado 35 years ago. Paul did not write Project Beta in 1988. This is not easy to come by, you probably did a search and someone has it uploaded to a share site claiming it is 1988. At first I thought it was 1979. The year is 1981. By that time Paul had convinced the senator, wrote to the white house, and alerted the pentagon that we were invaded and some humans knew about it, something I wouldn't believe without the cattle mutilations and abductions, and he had the head force of security at Kirtland AFB backing him because he had witnessed strange phenomena himself.


Something strange in my opinion happened the other day. I heard an interview with George Knapp and a person who met Bennewitz, but I can't remember which interview it was. It's almost like I had missing time, something in my subconscious did not want me to know maybe, I would think to remember about that. This man sounded discouraged, and said that Paul was a visually unstable person, didn't mention the year. A twist, he boldy said that Rick Doty had not passed him 'any' disinformation, but just was involved in the people who monitored him and watched him. Knapp was speechless for a few seconds in a rare moment that his guests shock him, and he asked again, 'They didn't pass any disinformation?' A bold and positive 'no' from this guest.



posted on Jul, 15 2012 @ 02:46 PM
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reply to post by greyer
 


Maybe that guest was simply spreading disinfo and lies by denying that Bennewitz was ever led astray

Idk about mutilations but the few stories as much as they can sound lies talk about either agents or some heli or other vehicle seen at the time of mutilations or someone may have dropped something around the place of mutilation. I am not sure mutliations are done by any other but humans using lasers.

Who knows, we may be as well invaded right now if these stories turn out true, but not invaded in the way movies propose - like some giant ships above the big cities but - we doing whatever they tell us to do and ofc making sure no one believes these stories.
edit on 15-7-2012 by Imtor because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 04:03 PM
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Originally posted by greyer
I heard an interview with George Knapp and a person who met Bennewitz, but I can't remember which interview it was.

Give us a few hints, so we can track down this program. Any idea of the date of the show,or anything that will help to find out who the guest was?



posted on Jul, 21 2012 @ 05:57 PM
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reply to post by CardDown
 


Yes!! Retired U.S. Air Force Captain Robert M. Collins.
This was not easy to find again, I have been searching all week.

He met Bennewitz and regarded him as highly unstable - that is ok and matches the story because it was in the late 80s. Paul was stable in early 1980, and as recent as June of that year became unstable. I believe this is possibly because he had an alien experience when Myrna Hansen was staying at his house, because he told Dr. Sprinkle that aliens could walk through walls.

Yet he was told the story personally by Doty, and says that no disinformation was passed to Paul Bennewitz. Knapp was suprised because it goes against what we have all read and heard, but I am not surprised at all because it goes with what Gabe Valdez said.

Segment on Paul starts at 8:00. I am aware there is disinformation here - greys like strawberry ice cream? But with disinformation also comes truth - the kind of truth you would not expect - Paul Bennewitz being right.





posted on Jul, 22 2012 @ 08:59 AM
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Thank you for tracking that down. From the interview, Collins claimed to have met Paul Bennewitz around 1987, many years after the initial sightings, and he couldn't really know about Bennewitz's reliability in 1979.

Robert Collins is having some sightings of his own. He has a Facebook page, and there you can see what's on his mind, as well as look at his most recent UFO photographs.
Robert M. Collins on Facebook



posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 01:23 AM
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reply to post by greyer
 


Thanks for bringing that interview. I don't know this person but I wil make some remarks:

- So he says there has been an exchange program with aliens (Greys?) where 3 EBEs have come to the Earth and were exchanged with humans who went to their planet.

Richard Doty - I didn't understand he says firstly that he didn't use any disinfo towards Paul Bennewitz, all he was trying to do was understand Paul Bennewitz, then later he says that he did disinfo but before 1988(or so), and R. Hasting says R. Doty has been into counter intelligence and a disinformer.

So what is true it is like a big mish-mash, the whole story? Clearly someone is lying about it here.

The part I really liked was saying that these bings are not interdimensional meaning pure aliens from another planet.. from the Reticulum constellation, Zeta system.

Well... how can one believe that? I mean, isn't this a little too much info and too far fetched? Especially the Doty part, I see the person interviewed contradicting himself, something smells fishy and like lies.



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