Contrail / Chemtrail. The debate ends here.

Originally posted by reitze
I'm amazed there's even a debate about this happening. To me what's more interesting is whats going on today as compared to how it was used 50 years ago.

Listen to Ben Livingston discuss the use of Silver Iodine on Viet Nam in the 1960s.

Cloud seeding is not secret - even Operation Popeye is now public knowledge, and project stomfury failed.

None of them look, behave or are generated in the same manner as contrails - which is what is being identified as "chemtrails" - at high altitude, from commercial airliners, for secret purposes potentially including depopulation, magnifying HAARP, geo-engineering, etc.

So you being amazed that something that is nothing at all to do with the chemtrail theory is not actually secret is a bit of a non-sequitur.

reply to post by mastersmurfie


You can present this..



And I will raise you this...



and this one is just for fun...



I also think this is funny...



Enjoy....

Here you go another little video that explains the chemtrail hoax.



And maybe another one for fun....

Well I just can't resist this one. Our good buddy Alex Jones and his chemtrail rant,,,



Well this just proves to me that he has no clue about what he is talking about, Yet he can prove chemtrails exist, really...

a) There is no "debate".
b) Wrong sub-forum

I don't think that the "aircraft projects" guys are happy reading about chemtrails

c) CONtrails do not necessarily quickly evaporate, the fact that some contrails stay longer doesn't make it a chemtrail, it's dependent on weather conditions.
d) wrong sub-forum
e) GOTO e

So basically the OP is saying since chemtrailers can't prove in any substantive fashion that actual chemtrails exist they'll just creatively rename contrails to chemtrails in the deluded belief that they can then finally "prove" chemtrails "exist".

This strategy is also known as the straw man logical fallacy.

When will chemtrail believers finally realize they are making themselves look ridiculous with their wild assertions and logic defying arguments?

As far as calling the exhaust from a jet turbine a chemtrail ... that's just weak. The exhaust from a jet turbine is exactly that, EXHAUST! And just as a fun fact if you were to run other internal combustion devices at 40 thousand feet of altitude at 3 to 600 miles per hour they'd also leave contrails if environmental conditions were correct. So unless you want to label car and generator exhaust as INVISITRAILS and claim that they put out new invisible chemtrails that can't be seen then your whole theory falls apart.

As usual I am left with a growing appreciation for my constantly increasing education in the hard sciences and the valuable insight into how the world actually works it provides. I sincerely hope that many of you will pursue further education in the hard sciences which will liberate you from your cult like beliefs in mythological pseudo science like chemtrails.

It's not even just the OP saying it. Look on the Chemtrail forum itself and the sheer volume of wilful ignorance and self-righteous delusion is quite depressing when you see it's coming from otherwise intelligent and articulate people.

The fact that they are so stressed out over high altitude visible trails of water ice, while displaying no concern at all about the invisible exhaust trails lower down, despite them being chemically identical, just shines a light on the ignorance displayed.

I used to go on there quite a bit, but gave up due them (with a few exceptions) not only failing to grasp what contrails are, but refusing to even try and engage and getting angry with factual explanations being offered!

They also regularly become upset when the true nature of some supposed evidence is revealed (example, photo of interior of Chemtrail plane really being water ballast testing tanks on a Boeing prototype) making it quickly apparent that they WANT to believe this guff about chemtrails, for reasons I can't explain.

To mastersmurfie,

That youtube video you refer to is the biggest load of sh#te I have seen in quite a while and given the subject thats saying something. But then I saw the motif on the video at the end "Tanker Enemy" so I shouldn't be surprised. All they do is mass market mayhem in order to make money. The contrail streams are being produced by pressure differentials aft of the wing flap track drive fairings. If you ever bother to look up a picture of any DC-10/MD-11 you will see them as they are a fairly distinct design as opposed to the "canoe" type fitted to most Boeing and Airbus designs. In addition they are streaming from the inboard sections of the wing and the wing to body fairing junction, again because of pressure differences causing condensation. There are no orifices through which liquids or gases could be sprayed as this would play havoc with aircraft weight and balance and physically it would be virtually impossible to engineer a trailing edge device to do its basic job and act as a spray head at the same time, it would be to weak and unbalanced. What this actually represents is that weather conditions are just right with probably higher than average ambient humidity. In your second post you said this, "I just never could understand why some planes' trails seem to dissipate, while others seem to expand. Weather conditions aside, why do some stay and some go away?". Well you just provided your own answer, it is PRECISELY the local weather conditions that cause it to happen or not happen and why they will sometimes persist whilst sometimes not.

Can I ask a simple question of the MOD's, why is this thread even on the aircraft projects forum? Correct me if I am wrong but dont we have a chemtrail forum precisely for that, chemtrails. This isn't really appropriate for this forum, which might just explain why some people here are getting a little annoyed at having it hijacked by the chemmie's. Cant the trolls play in their own backyard for once?

LEE.

I have posted pix from the sky above my house in the past few weeks showing contrails/ chemtrails that hang and spread in the air , but yesterday watching a plane at altitude with a contrail that stopped for about 10 plane lengths then started again.........that is not normal , this was around 10.15 am Birmingham UK.
The net should be full of sky photos from decades gone by showing what I am seeing daily , they are not.

Originally posted by Droidinvoid
...but yesterday watching a plane at altitude with a contrail that stopped for about 10 plane lengths then started again.........that is not normal...

Actually it's quite normal.

ContrailScience.com

Occasionally a jet plane, especially if ascending or descending, will pass through a much drier or more moist layer of atmosphere which may result in a broken pattern to the contrail, with it appearing in segments rather than in one continuous plume.

The net should be full of sky photos from decades gone by showing what I am seeing daily , they are not.

Do a search for "broken contrail" and you should find some results.

reply to post by thebozeian


I understand that the vid I shared is s*!t...however, the reason that I came to believe in "chemtrails" came from this:



Which is supposedly a pic of a downed plane in China from 2011, that was supposedly attempting to spread H1N1 flu virus over said country.

Further exploration brought me to Omega Air Refueling...

A "refueling company" that "provides our services to the U. S. Armed Forces and those of our allies, and the OARS/Omega Air team is looking forward to continuing to do so for many years to come" (from their About Us page...)??????? Why does the U. S. Armed Forces need to employ an outside company for refueling needs???

I do not dispute that the vid that I posted is sh#t...however I must dispute that there are no real chemtrails, and I feel the need to defend myself

reply to post by mastersmurfie


Omega provides large Drogue and probe tankers for use by the USN and USMC. All the USAF's large tankers are of the boom type, all the US naval Drogue tankers are buddy types (smaller aircraft for deck ops ie tanker version of S-3 Viking for example)

However there is also a need larger tankers for long range transits, the USAF cannot or will not provide this, the USN does not possess any large tankers of its own, therefore Omega Air is a private company that fills the need. AirTanker Ltd is a private company in the UK that provides a similar function for the RAF.

The belief in chemtrails is comletely irrational, because nothing supports it. Observations about "normal contrail behaviour", such as posted above, are always based on poor understanding and assumption, your own suspicion of Omega Air seems to come from a rumour and a lack of understanding of what the company is there for. This always proves to be the case when people talk of "chemtrails".

reply to post by Droidinvoid

yesterday watching a plane at altitude with a contrail that stopped for about 10 plane lengths then started again.........that is not normal

I've photographed this very same thing myself, here's the thread about it:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by Droidinvoid


Without realizing it you just helped "debunk" chemtrails. What you witnessed is normal if the trail is simply water vapor, a contrail. If the plain is spraying chemicals you would not see these gaps as atmospheric conditions would not matter. Thanks for helping to put the debate to rest.

need help to post photos of some chemtrails, it aint no contrail im worried :/, do they specifically target low socio-economic areas? nock out the less vocal? idk i just want to know why there doing it

reply to post by Messier45


Chemtrails, so far at least, are an unsubstantiated myth, so as you seem very sure that what you photographed are not contrails, when you do post them up I hope you explain why you believe this to be the case.

In order for you to have your say and demonstrate your case, I find that uploading my pictures to my photobucket account and then simply copying and pasting the IMG code into my post works best and ensures the images stay on the thread permanently (I used to use tiny pic but the mages get deleted for some reason after a while, which is irritating when revisiting old threads)..

You can sign up on photobucket for free if you don't already have an album on there

photobucket.com...

here's some info i've seen about this subject. i do think that is from a serious source:

www.newscientist.com... eering-would-turn-blue-skies-whiter.html

reply to post by mortalha


It is Indeed, but speculation about what may result, if geoengineering of this kind is tried in the future, is a very long way from saying chemtrails are in the sky now and for the last 20 years or so, isn't it?

reply to post by waynos


really can't say. all i know is that it's not so unlikely because all you need is an airplane and some chemicals and that exists far beyond 20 years ago.

reply to post by mortalha


Absolutely, there can be no doubt that an aerial spraying operation is technically feasible, and has been for a very long time.

However, the mere possibility of it, isn't in any way indicative that spraying is actually happening. The biggest obstacle in the way of Chemtrail theory is simp,y that every single thing so far purported to be chemtrails, has been something else. That something else always seems to be contrails left by commercial flights.

The root of Chemtrail theory would appear to be long visible trails in the sky, this largely seems to be based on a belief that normal aircraft contrails like this shouldn't loiter in the sky for hours and shouldn't spread out to form a layer of cloud and that it is a recent phenomenon (the mid 1990's is most often given as the starting point)

This belief is entirely wrong and persisting spreading aircraft contrails, formed and supported by prevailing atmospheric conditions, have been observed, and noted and studied, since before WW2.

I am entirely convinced that an aerial spraying operation could be carried out, but contrails aren't it.