The "Islamic threat" was fabricated by the media to substitute the "Red threat" after the end of

Originally posted by GLontra

Originally posted by daaskapital
Islam has been considered a threat to Western ideologies and society since at least the Crusades. Islamic Threat has always been there, it is just that it wasn't the biggest threat to deal with. Remember, there were terrorist organisation when the USSR was still kicking, the USA funded them.

Crusades? Com'on, we are having a serious debate here. Anything that happened more than 300 years ago has no relevance at all. And during the past 300 years, Islam was never considered a "threat", until very recently, until the last 30 years or so, and more specifically, after 1990, when the Soviet Union collapsed.


There was not a single "Islamic terrorist organization" in the world until the late 1970's.

By the way, one of the first "Islamic terrorism organization" was the HAMAS, that was created in Palestine as MOSSAD operation. There is plenty of proof that Mossad created Hamas as a religious organization to fight the secular organizations like Fatah, and split the Palestinians.

Also, the CIA created the Taliban to fight the Soviets, and also created Al-Qaeda.

Your right there is a serious debate going on, so how can you go and say that anything that happened over 300 years ago has no revelance?

The CIA funded the Taliban when they were fighting the Soviets, they did not create them.

Meanwhile southern Afghanistan was neither under the control of foreign-backed militias nor the government in Kabul, but was ruled by local leaders such as Gul Agha Sherzai and their militias. In 1991, the Taliban (a movement originating from Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam-run religious schools for Afghan refugees in Pakistan) also developed in Afghanistan as a politico-religious force.[44] Mullah Omar started his movement with fewer than 50 armed madrassah students in his hometown of Kandahar.[44] The most often-repeated story and the Taliban's own story of how Mullah Omar first mobilized his followers is that in the spring of 1994

The Taliban were largely founded by Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) in 1994.[11][59][60][61][62][63][64][65] The ISI used the Taliban to establish a regime in Afghanistan which would be favorable to Pakistan, as they were trying to gain strategic depth.[35][66][67][68] Since the creation of the Taliban, the ISI and the Pakistani military have given financial, logistical and military support.[13][69][70][71]

en.wikipedia.org...

Islamic terrorism has been identified as taking place in the Middle East, Africa, Europe, South Asia including India, Southeast Asia, and the United States since the 1970s

Some scholars, such as Mark Burgess of the Center for Defense Information, trace the roots of Islamic terrorism back to the 11th-century Assassins, an order of Isma'ili Shi'ism that targeted political and religious opponents who stood in the way of the Assassins' sectarian ideology. In positing a continuity between Islamic terrorism's medieval and modern manifestations, Burgess identifies both a common underlying motive, namely loyalty to a divine imperative, and similar tactics, such as actively seeking out martyrdom.

An alternative argument is that anti-American terrorism predated the rise of the United States as a global power and is justified by the Koran. This is exemplified by the events leading to the First Barbary War. Muslim pirates of Algiers, Morocco, Tunis, and Tripoli Barbary Coast had attacked, enslaved and held American merchant sailors for ransom, soon after the establishment of the United States of America in 1776

en.wikipedia.org... st

The Qur'an proposes an Ever-Expanding Universe which was not a scientific theory until the 1920's:

And it is We Who have constructed the heaven with might, and verily, it is We Who are steadily expanding it. (Qur'an, 51:47)

The Sun, as a star, eventually expires and this was not understood until recently that suns evnetually burn out:

And the sun runs to a fixed resting place. That is the decree of the Almighty, the All-Knowing. (Surah Ya Sin, 38)

Accurately stating there are 7 layers of crust:

It is Allah Who created the seven heavens and of the earth the same number, the Command descending down through all of them, so that you might know that Allah has power over all things and that Allah encompasses all things in His knowledge. (Qur'an, 65:12)

All mammals came from water:

Allah created every [living] creature from water. Some of them go on their bellies, some of them on two legs, and some on four. Allah creates whatever He wills. Allah has power over all things. (Qur'an, 24:45)

The science of Moses parting the sea:

So We revealed to Moses, 'Strike the sea with your staff.' And it split in two, each part like a towering cliff. And We brought the others right up to it. We rescued Moses and all those who were with him. Then We drowned the rest. There is certainly a Sign in that yet most of them are not believers. Truly your Lord is the Almighty, the Most Merciful. (Surat Ash-Shu'ara', 63-68)

How milk is made:

There is instruction for you in cattle. From the contents of their bellies, from between the dung and blood, We give you pure milk to drink, easy for drinkers to swallow. (Qur'an, 16:66)

The coming of Radio Towers:

We gave Dawud great favor from Us: “O mountains and birds! Echo with him in his praise!” And We made iron malleable for him: (Surah Saba’, 10)

No light at bottom of the sea and the nature of the sea:

Or [the unbelievers' state] are like the darkness of a fathomless sea which is covered by waves above which are waves above which are clouds, layers of darkness, one upon the other. If he puts out his hand, he can scarcely see it. Those Allah gives no light to, they have no light. (Qur'an, 24:40)

Qur'an on animal socieites:

There is no creature crawling on the earth or flying creature, flying on its wings, who are not communities just like yourselves…(Qur'an, 6:38)

The Qur'an states that stars are made from a gas cloud / smoke, and scientists today also theorize that as the origin of the universe:

Then He turned to heaven when it was smoke and said to it and to the earth, "Come willingly or unwillingly." They both said, "We come willingly." (Qur'an, 41:10-11)

Orbits and Rotating Universe:

"[I swear] by Heaven with its cyclical systems,"(Qur'an, 86:11)
space had "its oscillating orbits," (Qur'an, 51:7)

Pork has been proven to bad for human health:

He has only forbidden you carrion, blood and pork and what has been consecrated to other than Allah. But anyone who is forced to eat it-without desiring it or going to excess in it-commits no crime. Allah is Ever-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (Qur'an, 2:173)

Identifying the Star Sirius:

… it is He Who is the Lord of Sirius. (Qur'an, 53: 49)

A Helio-Centric Galaxy:

He created the heavens and the Earth with truth. He wraps the night around the day and wraps the day around the night, and has made the Sun and Moon subservient, each one running for a specified term. Is He not indeed the Almighty, the Endlessly Forgiving? ( Surat az-Zumar, 5)

And the Sun runs to its resting place. That is the decree of the Almighty, the All-Knowing. And We have decreed set phases for the Moon, until it ends up looking like an old palm spathe. It is not for the Sun to overtake the Moon nor for the night to outstrip the day; each one is swimming in a sphere. (Surah Ya Sin, 38-40)

The Aero-Dynamic Nature of the flight of Birds:

Do they not see the birds suspended in mid-air up in the sky? Nothing holds them there except Allah. There are certainly signs in that for people who believe.(Surat an-Nahl, 79)

The sky as a dome:

It is He Who made the earth a couch for you, and the sky a dome. He sends down water from the sky and by it brings forth fruits for your provision. Do not, then, knowingly make others equal to Allah. (Qur'an, 2:22)

There are so many MIRACLES of ELAH, OF GOD, OF YAHWEH in the Qur'an.

Originally posted by Maslo
Well, as I am from a post-communist country, I certainly think "Red threat" was real and did A LOT of evil. So following the same logic, is "Islamic threat" also real and dangerous?

There was NEVER a real "Red threat" to the WEST.

I'm not discussing if the communist governments were good or bad for people living in communist countries. But the "Red threat" was a scare tactic used by the US government to justify the expansion of the Military-Industrial Complex and the CIA operations around the world to overthrow democratically elected governments, like in Indonesia (were the CIA helped to exterminate more than half a million people).

There was never a real "Global Red Threat" against the "Western civilization". And there is not a real "Global Islamic Threat" against the "Western civilization". All are fabrications of the governments and media. They need an "enemy" to justify the eternal war mentality.

reply to post by GLontra

But the "Red threat" was a scare tactic used by the US government to justify the expansion of the Military-Industrial Complex and the CIA operations around the world to overthrow democratically elected governments, like in Indonesia (were the CIA helped to exterminate more than half a million people).

Even if the threat was misused by some to advance their own agendas, it does not prove that the threat itself is not real.
The same applies to Islamist threat.

There are 2 billion muslims. 99 percent of muslims aren't terrorists.

reply to post by TsafirKamel


Indeed. But how many are extremists and fundamentalists, even if they reject terrorist means to achieve political change? That is the question.

Originally posted by GLontra

Originally posted by Maslo
Well, as I am from a post-communist country, I certainly think "Red threat" was real and did A LOT of evil. So following the same logic, is "Islamic threat" also real and dangerous?

There was NEVER a real "Red threat" to the WEST.

I'm not discussing if the communist governments were good or bad for people living in communist countries. But the "Red threat" was a scare tactic used by the US government to justify the expansion of the Military-Industrial Complex and the CIA operations around the world to overthrow democratically elected governments, like in Indonesia (were the CIA helped to exterminate more than half a million people).

There was never a real "Global Red Threat" against the "Western civilization". And there is not a real "Global Islamic Threat" against the "Western civilization". All are fabrications of the governments and media. They need an "enemy" to justify the eternal war mentality.

I'm very glad to see that someone else realizes there really was no cold war...

What terrible things happened between the advertised and promoted as evil russian nation and the fear mongering,paranoia inducing usa,after trillions of tax dollars were extorted from us,directly because of the supposed looming russain monster always about to devour us all at any moment,for over forty years?...Nothing...Absolutely Nothing at all...Because...

Deep behind the scenes,there really was no cold war,just gigantic transfers of earthbound technologies and mega-bucks between russia and the usa,while their common people were dumbed down and kept in a state of constant fear and paranoia and far away from what was really going on,like fabricating outer space and moon mission programs,orchestrating wars and building underground blast proof bunkers for the worlds elites,with our tax money...

Just like this "one of many" atom bomb proof underground bunkers that the global elites have ready and waiting for them,not us,built with our extorted tax billions > en.wikipedia.org...

TPTB always need an enemy to spread fear through the population; keeping those beneath them in a constant state of anxiety so they remain willing to give up liberties in favour of security. This can be seen throughout history, for instance with the 'red terror', the war on drugs (a response to the positive progress made during the counterculture movement in the 60s), and now the war on terror. Further back in the past look at Nazi Germany and the way the Jews and Slavs were presented to the German people. I dare say this a strategy that has been used all the way back to ancient times.

There is always a 'barbarians at the gates' mindset to be pushed upon the common populace. In the short-term this can be seen in so-called media scares that have occured in the past; eg. satanism in music, but these could easily just innocent ways to sell papers and make money. It is the larger issues that are the ones to really worry about.

It is debatable whether the government responses are in fact justifiable, or whether they have an ulterior motive beneath the surface. Personally i'd argue that the TPTB (who are really just the wealthy and powerful elitist figures running the world from behind the scenes) want a more easily controllable population to preserve their own position in these increasingly turbulent times.

The fear-mongering strategy changes to reflect the geopolitical situation of the day, and may still be rooted in some degree of reality. For example, the two sides in the cold war did present a threat to one another, but this fact was undoubtedly taken advantage of by the governing elite to further their own interests. More recently, radical Islam does pose a threat to western civilisation, but it does not require the totalitarian response favoured by our current governments. I would also argue that radical Christianity is a significant (and growing) threat to peace and security, and is one that seems to be ignored by the majority.

reply to post by SystemFailure1994
"Naturally the common people don't want war. Neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country"

Hermann Goering-1893-1946,President of the Reichstag,Nazi Party and Luftwaffe Commander in Chief...

reply to post by blocula


Exactly. Say what you want about the Nazis, but when it comes to controlling people they knew what they were talking about!

I've copied and pasted one of my responses from another thread below as I think it is relevent:

The precedent is certainly there, and it does not take a great leap in imagination to believe that history would again repeat itself like it has so many times before.

Many academics now believe that the Nazis were involved in the arson attack on the Reichstag in 1933, the event that allowed Hitler and his supporters to rise to power in Germany. But, the events seem remarkably similar to something that took place more recently:

1) The Nazis used the attack as evidence that Communists were involved in a plot against the German government, allowing the removal of their main opposition due to their part in a greater conspiracy. (Al Qaeda/Bin Laden blame depite initial denial of involvement, fabrication of evidence etc.).

2) Emergency measures were put into place to withdraw civil liberties and crack down on political dissent within the country. (PATRIOT Act, Dep. of Homeland Security etc. 'Your either with us, or your with the terrorists').

3) The attack gave the Nazis greater political influence and support, and allowed them to consolidate their power by appealing to nationalist sentiment. (Renewed support for Bush administration, free-reign due to draping himself in the flag).

4) A hurried and questionnable investigation placed the blame directly on the Communists, even implicating figures entirely unrelated to the attack. (9/11 Commission and invasion of Iraq).

If it ain't broke don't fix it eh?