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TUMSHUKAIKO : 5 to 7 thousand years BC. Older than Caral !

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posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 08:09 PM
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Originally posted by longjohnbritches
reply to post by Trueman
 


Hi tru
Cool thread,
Can you boil something down for me??
What is the claim to fame for this new discovery?
What sets it apart? You seem to have a handle on all the info.
thanks ljb

why is this mind blowing? jericho has been settled for at least 9 thousand years and a city for 7.
i do find it interesting that there may have been a community just like jericho in the west as well, not sure why it would be mind blowing.




posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 09:09 PM
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reply to post by demongoat
 


Hi dem,
All that may be in others posts but not mine.
You would have to address that question to one of them.
The OP and I sorta thought checking out the sources would be a good idea.
None the less a good exercise is always fun.
I don't know if the OP found out something that made him abandon the thread.
Or if he just went fishing.
hope that helps a little. ljb



posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 09:55 PM
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I wonder how he comes up with the 5k to 7k BC, plus I think everything in the videos is either Caral or other much newer construction/designs.



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 06:59 AM
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Originally posted by Xtrozero
I wonder how he comes up with the 5k to 7k BC, plus I think everything in the videos is either Caral or other much newer construction/designs.


Hi xtro,
My guess would be, politics, tourism, propaganda and most of all ego?
the best ljb



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 07:02 AM
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reply to post by Xtrozero
 


As far I understood, that building is not Caral, but it's close to it and might be considered part of the archeological complex. One of the biggest difference, is that this one is made of stones. Regarding how he determinate the age of the building, it seems he was in process to get evidence as the excavation progress. For now, we have to accept the structure doesn't match with the others in the area. In other words, the conclusions were based in the characteristic of the structure, which are remarkable and show a much more advanced technique than Caral without a doubt.
edit on 2-4-2012 by Trueman because: (no reason given)

edit on 2-4-2012 by Trueman because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 07:39 AM
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Originally posted by Trueman
reply to post by Xtrozero
 


As far I understood, that building is not Caral, but it's close to it and might be considered part of the archeological complex. One of the biggest difference, is that this one is made of stones. Regarding how he determinate the age of the building, it seems he was in process to get evidence as the excavation progress. For now, we have to accept the structure doesn't match with the others in the area.


Hi tru,
Is the he you reference the mayor, the archeologist or the reporter?
Glad to see you back. ljb



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 08:31 AM
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reply to post by longjohnbritches
 


I was talking about Dr Samaniego, the archeologist. There is another archeologist in the video, he seems to disagree about the age of the structure.



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 08:55 AM
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reply to post by demongoat
 




why is this mind blowing?


The current accepted theory is that agricultural practices spread out from Mesopotamia around about 5-7000 BC.

If this settlement truly dates from approximately the same era and was as sophisticated and developed as stated then that casts doubts upon that theory.
Which in turn raises many other questions.



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 10:08 AM
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Originally posted by Freeborn
reply to post by demongoat
 




why is this mind blowing?


The current accepted theory is that agricultural practices spread out from Mesopotamia around about 5-7000 BC.

If this settlement truly dates from approximately the same era and was as sophisticated and developed as stated then that casts doubts upon that theory.
Which in turn raises many other questions.


Hi free,
Not to be disagreeable but have you looked at the possibility that China was slightly ahead of the Cresent?
I think it was in most aspects of human developement.
I am glad to see folks trying to find reason and facts regarding these new accounts
cheers ljb



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 10:28 AM
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reply to post by longjohnbritches
 


I personally wouldn't discount the possibility that agricultural practices started in China, I was merely pointing out that the current accepted theory is that it started in the Tigris / Euphrates area and that it spread throughout the world from there.

With the spread of agriculture we see the development of larger and permanent settlements etc and the decline of hunter / gatherer societies.

The current theories on human development / migration etc are coming under increasing scrutiny and it seems as if there is a steady stream of new information and contradictory evidence.
The only things of which I am certain is that there is much we don't know or aren't being told, for whatever reasons.



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 10:37 AM
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reply to post by Freeborn
 


Hi free,

I agree. You do have to read between the lines with all the media hype and political spin etc.
This site is interesting none the less.
My problem with the info is I can't watch the vids and don't speak Spanish.
cheers ljb
PS tru has been very helpfull pulling up what he can from the OP.



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 11:08 AM
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reply to post by Freeborn
 


I am not sure if you mean Agriculture or Horticulture. Anyway, here is some info.


TextAgriculture involving domestication of plants and animals was developed at least 10,000 years ago, although some forms of agriculture such as forest gardening and fire-stick farming date back even earlier to prehistoric times.


en.m.wikipedia.org...



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 11:15 AM
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reply to post by demongoat
 


Because this is in South America.



posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 01:16 AM
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Originally posted by Trueman
reply to post by Xtrozero
 


As far I understood, that building is not Caral, but it's close to it and might be considered part of the archeological complex. One of the biggest difference, is that this one is made of stones. Regarding how he determinate the age of the building, it seems he was in process to get evidence as the excavation progress. For now, we have to accept the structure doesn't match with the others in the area. In other words, the conclusions were based in the characteristic of the structure, which are remarkable and show a much more advanced technique than Caral without a doubt.
edit on 2-4-2012 by Trueman because:


I agree it is quite interesting, and if it is determined to be that old it may suggest another group of humans not associated with the basic spread of those that crossed the ice bridge 25k years ago that were basically the Caral group after their long migration south.

The date is a sticky point though and I think it is kind of WAG, a big WAG if you get my meaning if he cannot back it up with physical data. Carbon dating should be very accurate for that time period to truly prove its age. extra DIV



posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 03:03 AM
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Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by Trueman
reply to post by Xtrozero
 


As far I understood, that building is not Caral, but it's close to it and might be considered part of the archeological complex. One of the biggest difference, is that this one is made of stones. Regarding how he determinate the age of the building, it seems he was in process to get evidence as the excavation progress. For now, we have to accept the structure doesn't match with the others in the area. In other words, the conclusions were based in the characteristic of the structure, which are remarkable and show a much more advanced technique than Caral without a doubt.
edit on 2-4-2012 by Trueman because:


I agree it is quite interesting, and if it is determined to be that old it may suggest another group of humans not associated with the basic spread of those that crossed the ice bridge 25k years ago that were basically the Caral group after their long migration south.

The date is a sticky point though and I think it is kind of WAG, a big WAG if you get my meaning if he cannot back it up with physical data. Carbon dating should be very accurate for that time period to truly prove its age.


Here is an interesting article, there you'll find 3 highlighted texts. According to this info, Sechin Bajo (the archeological Complex in the area), was already determinated as much older than Caral. This article is strongly supporting Dr. Samaniego's statements and yes, this is older than the pyramids in Egypt. School books were wrong after all.



www.philipcoppens.com...
edit on 3-4-2012 by Trueman because: (no reason given)
extra DIV



posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 10:46 AM
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reply to post by Trueman
 


This could setup a chicken or the egg (who came first) scenario. Did South America knowledge spread to Egypt or the other way around? As I said I find it unlikely that two totally independent cultures would evolve their stone working/building skills on basically the same linear learning path.

I just read a 1996 article that stated that Brazil has pyramids 5000 years old which puts them a few hundred years older than Egypt, but the article states there are 1000s of pyramids in South America with only 10% that survived.

Brazil Pyramids

There is something interesting though....

In the middle between Egypt and the Americas is China and it has pyramids too, so does Russia (two in Russia are set up identical to the Egypt ones). One in China is called the White Pyramid and it stands 1000 feet tall (Egypt biggest is 450 feet tall). It is so big that most took it for just a mountain, but though it was estimated at 4500 years old one can see that it looks much older by the sheer fact that nature has truly taken it over hence why the general population thought it was just a mountain.

A quote from the article that suggests otherwise.

An American trader, stumbling upon these amazing structures in 1912, asked his Buddhist monk-guide about them. He was told that 5,000-year-old monastic documents not only contained information about these pyramids, but said the pyramids were extremely old when these records were made.


Article

Could it had been China where this all started and it then flowed east and west from there? The problem with China is just about every square inch has been built on over and over, so most pyramids 5k, 10k, 20k or older would have been built then destroyed for other construction to just repeat the cycle once again in some new dynasty.

If the White pyramid is 10k or older I can't see them starting off with a 1000 foot tall one right from the start, so this suggests they were doing this a long time before the White pyramid.











edit on 3-4-2012 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 11:10 AM
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reply to post by Xtrozero
 


I read about that too. I believe there was a third element, another culture we don't , more advanced. All we know about them are legends. Maybe they are still around.
edit on 3-4-2012 by Trueman because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 11:22 AM
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Originally posted by Trueman

I read about that too. I believe there was a third element, another culture we don't , more advanced. All we know about them are legends.


I'm not sure I'm ready to jump on that band wagon just yet, but I truly believe we have the age all wrong on when pyramids were first started to be built and where it all started. This is not a bad theory to explain why Egypt and South America just happen to get the same flash of genius on building, as in there was no quick start to all this for they could have just been copying and improving a process already being done for 10,000s of years before them.

Copying and improving is something we humans excel at....



posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 10:19 PM
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Hi guys

If this site is a pyramid or temple then it required workers that required food.
Hunting and gathering won't cut it. Horticulture (doubt it would sufice)
If they had developed agriculture the evidence must be there.
I don't know of any other civilizations that had Pyramid building before agriculture and ceramics.

I would like to know about lithic finds at the site.
That would be the best way to date this place.
Most all Paleo and Archaic point types are similar through out the western hemisphere at those times. 12k to 6k years ago.
Oh also I think pyramid/temple building is just a human phase of developement.
As is, agra, ceramic, sacrifice, city state metalurgy, PATRIOT act.lol
Also I think it does happen independently. Especially back then, when travel to foreign places was not happening on any regular basis. China, Egypt and the Americas were quite well isolated at those dates.
Thanks for the talk members ljb
edit on 4/3/2012 by longjohnbritches because: add stuff



posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 03:06 AM
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There is a old book (about 1940-1950), (I think the author last name was Loayza), about a theory of ancient chinese sailors in South America. The book, mentions a list several words of great similarity between the local language and chinese. I remember it also mention the "quipu", was also used in China. I will try to find it.

Besides that, there is also the story of "Zheng He ", but that probably happened just little earlier than Columbus, that will rule it out since Tumshukaiko is way much older that that.

www.chinapage.com...



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