Are these Chemtrails or Contrails.

reply to post by Droidinvoid


What does your heart and common sense tell you. Now there are those that will tell you this is all just natural stuff. "Nothing to see here" They will tell you that these trails of crap contain nothing harmful. ( Of course they cant prove that ) and they will call you an idiot finally if you don't believe everything they tell you. They will tell you its moisture content related and temperature related and that also is a bunch of crap.

The trails are just what they appear to be. NOT NORMAL. UNHEALTHY A PRODUCT OF TPTB and all the paid "Lobbyists" in the world don't change the fact that it's as foul as Monsanto and is being promoted by the same criminals that are in bed with murdering Traitors.

Of course if you want to believe a pig is a goat and a goat is an elephant? Be my guest.

Originally posted by CherubBaby

What does your heart and common sense tell you.

My heart and common sense tell me that the earth is flat, it does not move, and that the heavens revolve around it.

Luckily with a bit of science I can easily demonstrate that it is is not. Just get a few friends around the country to measure the angle of the sun at various times, do some high school math, and that's all you need.

Likewise we can easily demonstrate that these trails are not made of aluminum oxide by observing that there is a gap between the engine and the trail. If it were metal oxides then there would be no gap.

There are plenty of other simple bits of science that anyone can do. Like consider the optical density of the spreading trail. If it were just powder, then it could not possibly spread out and remain visible. Any "chemtrail" would quickly fade away like smoke. Only a contrail, made of growing ice crystals, could remain visible while spreading out.

So don't just trust your heart, and common sense - useful starting points though they might be. Try a really small amount of very simple science as well, just to be sure.

reply to post by CherubBaby

What does your heart and common sense tell you.

There is an ATS member who started a thread to "ask" whether the Earth (or any celestial bodies) are, indeed...."in motion"

THINK about that, for a second....and contemplate whether (or not) that is logical.... (based on the SCIENCE tha we know, today).

I ask for RATIONAL thinking...or else??

The alternative is Irrationality.

EDIT TO ADD.....This THREAD.

Please. read that thread....and then come back.

Most of us are rational here.

Please., be 'rational'.....we welcome rational thinking, here....join.
CHOOSE!! (please)......

reply to post by ProudBird


Interesting thread there.

One thing you've got to consider is that many members of ATS are young, quite possibly very young. And so such questions as "what does a rocket push against in a vacuum" or "why don't we feel the earth moving at 1000 mph?" are quite sensible and reasonable questions for a 12 year-old to ask. They are even quite reasonable questions for a 40 year-old to ask, if they have never really thought much about physics before.

The problems arise when these people, children and adults, choose to ignore the answers. Instead of grappling with the physics, or accepting that physics is perhaps a bit too hard for them, they choose to entertain seemingly simpler concepts like "this is weird, so it must be all a computer simulation".

What sad it that it's not even very hard to find the answers. One need only type the question into google, and read for a while. A fresh crop of young people comes along every year, and they ask the same questions.

www.google.com...

reply to post by Uncinus


YES...I know...I understand:

Interesting thread there.

One thing you've got to consider is that many members of ATS are young, quite possibly very young. And so such questions as "what does a rocket push against in a vacuum" or "why don't we feel the earth moving at 1000 mph?"

However.....when one reads a few other threads, authored by that particular ATS member.....one begins to "think" it is not just "a young person" involved...(If you grasp my meaning??)

I have seen this before.....

(AND, for those playing along?? Yeah...straying from the "thread topic", perhaps......but there IS A POINT!!

(It's about logic, and science, and rationality).

reply to post by Uncinus

There are plenty of other simple bits of science that anyone can do.

Yes there are. Reading a study, rather than listening to you, would be a good start.

Effects of aluminum nanoparticle exposure in zebrafish

Aluminum nanoparticles are being used as propellants, explosives, rocket fuels and infrared obscurants.

Elevated silver, barium and strontium in antlers, vegetation and soils

High levels of Silver (Ag), Barium (Ba) and Strontium (Sr) and low levels of copper (Cu) have been measured in the antlers, soils and pastures of the deer that are thriving in the chronic wasting disease (CWD) cluster zones in North America in relation to the areas where CWD and other transmissible spongiform encephalopathies (TSEs) have not been reported. The elevations of Ag, Ba and Sr were thought to originate from both natural geochemical and artificial pollutant sources--stemming from the common practise of aerial spraying with 'cloud seeding' Ag or Ba crystal nuclei for rain making in these drought prone areas of North America, the atmospheric spraying with Ba based aerosols for enhancing/refracting radar and radio signal communications as well as the spreading of waste Ba drilling mud from the local oil/gas well industry across pastureland.

Here we learn that aluminum, silver, barium, strontium and copper are being sprayed from aircraft for the purpose of or use as propellants, explosives, rocket fuels, infrared obscurants, cloud seeding and for the enhancement of radar and radio signal communications. Questions?

Since the word "Chemtrail" was invented as part of an hoax that was started in 1996 and not one single government recognises the phenomena , then my only conclusion is that the pictures uploaded in the opening post show nothing more than condensation trails and cirrus clouds .

Will this silly debate ever go away ?

reply to post by dawnprince


The only thing silly is your inability to read or your willful rejection to countless reports that say umm how do I say it? That say your wrong!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by CherubBaby
reply to post by dawnprince

 

The only thing silly is your inability to read or your willful rejection to countless reports that say umm how do I say it? That say your wrong!!!!!!!!!!

I read very well , thank you and write a whole lot better than yourself.
If you care to post one single link to any serious research into "Chemtrails" , then I will read it and post my thoughts on it . Until such time , I will remain totally skeptical.

Have a nice day.

reply to post by dawnprince


Sure thing, there are countless articles on this subject. There are hundreds of threads/posts. You have one just above your reply to me from Luxor.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by CherubBaby
reply to post by dawnprince

 

Sure thing, there are countless articles on this subject. There are hundreds of threads/posts. You have one just above your reply to me from Luxor.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Maybe you are the one who doesn't read too good.
I asked you to provide a link to serious scientific research , not to a thread on ATS containing more theory .

I will attempt to educate you on the subject of theory and facts .
Once a theory has been scientifically proven , it then becomes a LAW, ie Newton's Law , Einstein's Law , Ohm's Law , etc. Now , can you please point me in the direction where I might find more information on Chemtrail Law ?

I won't hold my breath, because "Chemtrails" will never remain anything other than a theory held by individuals with no proof what-so-ever of their existence.

Originally posted by luxordelphi

Aluminum nanoparticles are being used as propellants, explosives, rocket fuels and infrared obscurants.

Elevated silver, barium and strontium in antlers, vegetation and soils

High levels of Silver (Ag), Barium (Ba) and Strontium (Sr) and low levels of copper (Cu) have been measured in the antlers, soils and pastures of the deer that are thriving in the chronic wasting disease (CWD) cluster zones in North America in relation to the areas where CWD and other transmissible spongiform encephalopathies (TSEs) have not been reported. The elevations of Ag, Ba and Sr were thought to originate from both natural geochemical and artificial pollutant sources--stemming from the common practise of aerial spraying with 'cloud seeding' Ag or Ba crystal nuclei for rain making in these drought prone areas of North America, the atmospheric spraying with Ba based aerosols for enhancing/refracting radar and radio signal communications as well as the spreading of waste Ba drilling mud from the local oil/gas well industry across pastureland.

Here we learn that aluminum, silver, barium, strontium and copper are being sprayed from aircraft for the purpose of or use as propellants, explosives, rocket fuels, infrared obscurants, cloud seeding and for the enhancement of radar and radio signal communications. Questions?

Yes - why are you quoting unreviewed, unsubstantiated articles, and only the abstract of it, that do not back up your assertions at all?

Perhaps you could have done a little research into the nature of the substantive paper rather than just relying upon the abstract.

There are a number of places the paper makes claims for Barium being sprayed -

atmospheric aerosol sprays for refracting radar/radio waves, cloud seeding weather modifi- cation sprays,

- lines 44-46

or due to other military uses of Ba such as radar ducting aerosols [28].

- line 176-177

as well as creating a Ba ion atmospheric aerosol [27,28] ducting path – for enhancing/refracting radio and radar signals during military jet practise or battlefield operations.

- lines 285-288

Another possible source of Ba contamination may have stemmed from the aerial dispersal of Ba based aerosols – such as the barium strontium titanate compounds used for enhancing radar/radio wave transmission [28] – along the flight paths of the military jet ‘low flying’ test zones that operate over these specific MS affected valleys in Scotland. The author recorded high levels of Ba in all of these Aberdeenshire MS cluster ecosystems, which in-cluded levels of Ba at 46 and 694 ppm in the vegetation and soils lying beneath the flight path entering the local military airbase at Lossiemouth.

- lines 198-309

And in Table 1 and Table 2 just after that last extract some barium levels are given, with 1 source in each table being given as "Aeroplane fuel additive".

...military radar/radio ducting aerosols.

lines 500-501

The claim is that aerial spraying it carried out is "backed up" by 2 references -

[27] Paine TO. NASA barium ion cloud. Patent US 3813875, Barium release system to create ion clouds in upper atmosphere. Application No.: US 1972000248761, Patent issue date, June 4th 1974.
[28] Dorsch J. Electronic news, January 11 1999.

The first of these is is a typical chemmie claim - a patent for releasing barium from ROCKETS somehow means that it is released from aircraft - it is utterly irrelevant both to chemtrails in general, and also to the specific claims in this paper.

The 2nd reference is untraceable on the 'net - it only occurs in a couple of papers by this guy.

The author - Dorsch J. - doesn't seem to exist on the 'net in any connection to radar or radio technology apart from this reference. And the Archives for EDN (which merged with Electronic News) show no issue for January 11 1999. There appears to be no Electronic News archive online.

Now let us look at the author of the paper - Mark Purdey - he was a British organic farmer and anti-BSE campaigner who believed that the disease was due to environmental factors rather than being an infectious disease. As his wiki page points out, he was wrong. But he was also quite dogged and quite well self-educated, and some of his papers were published in peer-reviewed journals. This one was not.

So what we actually have here is someone looking at something else entirely, taking as gospel an untraceable article claiming that barium, etc are sprayed by aircraft.

This paper actually did NOT establish that this was the case at all, nor did any other paper...anywhere, anywhen.

Originally posted by luxordelphi
reply to post by Uncinus

 

There are plenty of other simple bits of science that anyone can do.

Yes there are. Reading a study, rather than listening to you, would be a good start.

Was anything I said wrong? Why not point out where I was wrong rather than just encouraging people to ignore me.

I give simple tests people can do to see if a trail is made of powder (if it is made of powder, it will start at the point of emission, and quickly dissipate). What's wrong with that?