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Christianity vs Atheism: The Facts

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posted on Mar, 30 2012 @ 04:11 PM
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Originally posted by Starchild23
You must be atheist. But see, every point raised in that video is entirely valid including the fact that atheists use these arguments, and that these arguments are flawed.

I, for one, will not argue a point that is very well made and completely valid.


It's basically a propaganda video. It's biased as hell and for you not to be able to see that... well...

You are trying to say that atheists arguments are flawed because they admit they do not know some grand question of the universe, while the religious make up stories based on god. Since the religious have an answer (regardless of it being made up or not), they must be right.

The fact is people didn't know the answer to some of these questions 2 millennium ago, and they still don't. I don't see how that makes any point in that video valid?
edit on 30-3-2012 by RSF77 because: (no reason given)




posted on Mar, 30 2012 @ 04:13 PM
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Originally posted by RSF77

Originally posted by Annee
Ah Yes! "I think, therefore I am"

Am what?


It means that the only thing we can know is that we exist, meaning we don't really know anything;


We don't know that we exist.

Have you seen some of the video games today? I don't even know if you can call them video games anymore. Maybe "realistic simulations"?

If I am - - what am I? I don't think you can really say "I exist" unless you know the source of your existence.



posted on Mar, 30 2012 @ 04:13 PM
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Originally posted by David291
reply to post by Starchild23
 


but what if there isnt? Doh, that line of thought is so invalid. "what if" just doesn't fit the bill. Oh yeah, it does if it comes to religion.
edit on 30/3/12 by David291 because: (no reason given)


Not at all. I'll answer that question very neatly.

What if there isn't a God? We're all the result of a very long series of very improbable, completely random events. So...where's morality? Where's purpose? Is our sole task simply survival? Where does that leave us?

Murder, rape, theft, deception, tyranny, oblivion, all of that. So tell me: if on one, very pure and sacred hand you have religion, and on the other han- oh wait, you don't have that hand because there was only evolution and anarchy. It got blown to #ing hell.

Oh well.


edit on CFridaypm202014f14America/Chicago30 by Starchild23 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 30 2012 @ 04:15 PM
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Originally posted by RSF77
I agree with you, I was just taking a little jab at Christians. The idea of extraterrestrials seems a lot more logical than any explanation of god. Some people think that's crazy, I think they are crazy for thinking that is crazy. What a mess.



If we all agreed - all the time - what's the point of a forum?

Right?



posted on Mar, 30 2012 @ 04:16 PM
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reply to post by mikelkhall
 


In other words, you are Switzerland, so afraid and indecisive, or just not giving enough of a # to actually put a word in, that you just let the entire world get torn apart before poking your head out and asking, "Are they dead yet?"

You're one of those guys. Right. Okay.
edit on CFridaypm343416f16America/Chicago30 by Starchild23 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 30 2012 @ 04:16 PM
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Originally posted by Annee
If I am - - what am I? I don't think you can really say "I exist" unless you know the source of your existence.


You are sitting here talking to me, expressing ideas. One way or another you exist as a free thinking consciousness.

What rule or law of the universe dictates that we cannot exist without knowing the source? Why is it that cannot be true? The fact that we exist should be the most self-evident concept we have, it's the framework for all other philosophy. If the world is a simulation, which in an odd way it is if you put your money on indirect realism, the fact still remains that we, somehow, have free will and exist as a sovereign being.
edit on 30-3-2012 by RSF77 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 30 2012 @ 04:17 PM
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reply to post by Annee
 


This is exactly the kind of thing I often talk about. If I claim I am a Christian, non Christians will attack me. If I claim I am a non believer, Christians will attack me.

You missed the point entirely.

The point is people should just let each other be and not worry about what another person believes and live their own lives as they see fit and let God be the judge..

I am not asking you to prove your beliefs to me or to justify your beliefs to me. So I would please appreciate it if you would return the favor to me.



posted on Mar, 30 2012 @ 04:18 PM
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reply to post by Annee
 



If I am - - what am I? I don't think you can really say "I exist" unless you know the source of your existence.


Nope. You totally can. There's a kid halfway around the world who never laid eyes on her real parents, nor knew their names. She doesn't even know her parents right now aren't her real parents. She still exists.

Try again.



posted on Mar, 30 2012 @ 04:24 PM
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Originally posted by RSF77

Originally posted by Annee
If I am - - what am I? I don't think you can really say "I exist" unless you know the source of your existence.


You are sitting here talking to me, expressing ideas. One way or another you exist as a free thinking consciousness.



Or a simulated energy plugged into an external energy "consciousness".

What was the point of "I think therefore I am"? Why was it said? I doubt he had "realistic simulated" computer games back then.
edit on 30-3-2012 by Annee because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 30 2012 @ 04:27 PM
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Originally posted by Starchild23
reply to post by Annee
 



If I am - - what am I? I don't think you can really say "I exist" unless you know the source of your existence.


Nope. You totally can. There's a kid halfway around the world who never laid eyes on her real parents, nor knew their names. She doesn't even know her parents right now aren't her real parents. She still exists.

Try again.


You're thinking like a physically grounded human.

God is not a physically grounded human.



posted on Mar, 30 2012 @ 04:32 PM
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Originally posted by Annee
Have you seen some of the video games today? I don't even know if you can call them video games anymore. Maybe "realistic simulations"?



Originally posted by Annee
Or a simulated energy plugged into an external energy "consciousness".

What was the point of "I think therefore I am"? Why was it said? I doubt he had "realistic simulated" computer games back then.


I'm a subscriber of indirect realism, which in a nutshell means that everything we experience is actually a sort of virtual reality inside of our brain. When we touch an object, we are not actually "feeling" ourselves touch the object (It's kind of hard to find the right words to explain it, lol). The experience is completely inside of our heads and our bodies are only reacting by command, the entire world as we perceive it rests inside of our cranium and the orders to move and think are coming from somewhere (be it our brains or somewhere else).

There are things that exist in nature that we cannot see or feel (radiation, electromagnetism, etc), this lends great credit to this philosophy. We only perceive what we have adapted to perceive.

Think about it a step further, combine it with biological evolution and the traits of life in general, a concept of our consciousness and the fact that we don't really know what gives life to it, add a dose of spiritualism and it REALLY looks our consciousness is attempting to "grow into the physical world" from somewhere else.

Strange huh?
edit on 30-3-2012 by RSF77 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 30 2012 @ 04:34 PM
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Originally posted by RSF77

Originally posted by Annee
Have you seen some of the video games today? I don't even know if you can call them video games anymore. Maybe "realistic simulations"?



Originally posted by Annee
Or a simulated energy plugged into an external energy "consciousness".

What was the point of "I think therefore I am"? Why was it said? I doubt he had "realistic simulated" computer games back then.


I'm a subscriber of indirect realism, which in a nutshell means that everything we experience is actually a sort of virtual reality inside of our brain. When we touch an object, we are not actually "feeling" ourselves touch the object. The experience is completely inside of our heads and our bodies are only reacting by command, the entire world as we perceive it rests inside of our cranium and the orders to move and think are coming from somewhere (be it our brains or somewhere else).

There are things that exist in nature that we cannot see or feel (radiation, electromagnetism, etc), this lends great credit to this philosophy. We only perceive what we have adapted to perceive.

Think about it a step further, combine it with biological evolution and the traits of life in general, a concept of our consciousness and the fact that we don't really know what gives life to it, add a dose of spiritualism and it REALLY looks our consciousness is attempting to "grow into the physical world" from somewhere else.

Strange huh?


I like your "argument". I'm gonna leave it alone for now.

Gotta go.
edit on 30-3-2012 by Annee because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 30 2012 @ 05:46 PM
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Originally posted by Starchild23

Originally posted by David291
reply to post by Starchild23
 


but what if there isnt? Doh, that line of thought is so invalid. "what if" just doesn't fit the bill. Oh yeah, it does if it comes to religion.
edit on 30/3/12 by David291 because: (no reason given)


Not at all. I'll answer that question very neatly.

What if there isn't a God? We're all the result of a very long series of very improbable, completely random events. So...where's morality? Where's purpose? Is our sole task simply survival? Where does that leave us?

Murder, rape, theft, deception, tyranny, oblivion, all of that. So tell me: if on one, very pure and sacred hand you have religion, and on the other han- oh wait, you don't have that hand because there was only evolution and anarchy. It got blown to #ing hell.

Oh well.


edit on CFridaypm202014f14America/Chicago30 by Starchild23 because: (no reason given)


You make a lot of assumptions. You assume that morality comes from god. I disagree.

You assume that without religion the world would spin into anarchy. I disagree.

You assume there is a hell. I disagree

You assume the character in the Old Testament is the creator of the universe. I disagree.

You assume the bible to be the word of god. I disagree.

You assume that that biblical character Jesus was god incarnate. I disagree

You assume that god died for your sins. I disagree

My belief is that god IS the universe. All that exists IS the body of god. Some would say that god is the creator and lives outside of the creation, and therefore doesn't exist within his creation itself. I'm ok with either one of those ideas.

What I cannot accept is that god visited and walked upon our planet.

Because of this, I have been called an atheist Satan worshiper, among other things, by some of the more vocal and regular Christians on this sight.

I find their offensive behavior arrogant, cruel, judgmental, ignorant and closed minded.



posted on Mar, 30 2012 @ 05:49 PM
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reply to post by Starchild23
 





In other words, you are Switzerland, so afraid and indecisive, or just not giving enough of a # to actually put a word in, that you just let the entire world get torn apart before poking your head out and asking, "Are they dead yet?" You're one of those guys. Right. Okay.


And you have proof that I am afraid and indecisive? I give a # about things that really matter and the idea of their being a god or not just doesn't matter.

The world was being torn apart long before I came into the picture and will continue to be torn apart long after I have passed. I do what I can to make the world a better place for people to live in today.

I, at least, have the guts to go out in the world and arrest the murderers and rapist and thieves and put my life on the line for what I believe is right and none of that has anything to do with god.

What have you done lately to make the world a better place to live in? Oh, you get on ATS and spew rhetoric at people you don't know just to make yourself seem better than everyone, at least in your own mind.

I'm Agnostic which means that I don't have any answers one way or the other about the issue of god but at least I'm not afraid to search and research and think for myself.

If you are the type of person that god has put in charge of recruitment then I can honestly say I don't want any part of YOUR god. You seem to be a very angry person. Maybe you should take a break and relax before you pop a vein.



posted on Mar, 30 2012 @ 06:16 PM
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Originally posted by Starchild23

Originally posted by David291
reply to post by Starchild23
 


but what if there isnt? Doh, that line of thought is so invalid. "what if" just doesn't fit the bill. Oh yeah, it does if it comes to religion.
edit on 30/3/12 by David291 because: (no reason given)


Not at all. I'll answer that question very neatly.

What if there isn't a God? We're all the result of a very long series of very improbable, completely random events. So...where's morality? Where's purpose? Is our sole task simply survival? Where does that leave us?

Murder, rape, theft, deception, tyranny, oblivion, all of that. So tell me: if on one, very pure and sacred hand you have religion, and on the other han- oh wait, you don't have that hand because there was only evolution and anarchy. It got blown to #ing hell.

Oh well.


edit on CFridaypm202014f14America/Chicago30 by Starchild23 because: (no reason given)


Did you fall out of bed and hit your head? religion is full of the above too... Wow lol

and by the way, I never said there isn't a good, I just think even way religion is just as bad as atheism infact I would say more wrongs have been made in religions name than any atheist. Anyway, that's not the point. I just don't know if there is or isn't a god.
edit on 30/3/12 by David291 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 30 2012 @ 06:20 PM
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reply to post by Annee
 


The Being is not a guy in the sky. He exists outside of our dimensions and has no beginning or end as we understand.



posted on Mar, 30 2012 @ 06:26 PM
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reply to post by Starchild23
 


I think your full of it. New ageism is a demonic deception, there will be no 'ascesion' 2012. If you do not believe in God then how do you answer the questions of where we come from, etc... Do you have a clue?

What Jesus said about judging others:

Matthew 7: “Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. 3 And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye’; and look, a plank is in your own eye? 5 Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
edit on 30-3-2012 by RevelationGeneration because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 30 2012 @ 07:16 PM
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reply to post by Starchild23
 


The picture is based on christianity, not the truth. Atheism is just whatever is opposite of truth. So basically both those pictures are false. But it comes down to what you want to believe, cause in the end we will all know the truth. If people really actually believed in Atheism for example, I dont understand why any of them are afraid of dying. Theres no purpose to their existence, why not just help the planet, plants, animals by removing yourself from the gene code and quit taking everyone elses resources. Its a simple thought. If Atheists want to believe that go right ahead, its really about denying anything beyond humans as a intelligent species, then they want us to believe their is aliens where there is no solid proof. Yea.....right



posted on Mar, 30 2012 @ 07:29 PM
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reply to post by Seektruthalways1
 


You are right, in the end when we die we will all know the truth. I put my trust in Jesus Christ as my savior because of what he did for me and I have seen enough proof for God and Jesus life death & resurrection. If I die tonight I count on the promise he made for me. I cannot thank him enough for what he has done and the truth he has revealed to me through his written word. I believe atheists are taking a huge risk on their lives, eternity is a long time to be separated from God in hell. They say they do not believe in such things, but what we believe does not matter, it matters if what we believe is true. Atheists no deep down that God exists because otherwise they wouldn't be afraid of death and would not attack people of different faiths. I do believe the alien phenomenon is real but I believe it is demons is disguise and it will be a fake alien invasion by these fallen angels in the end times as revelation talks about.



posted on Mar, 30 2012 @ 07:33 PM
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Originally posted by Seektruthalways1
Atheism is just whatever is opposite of truth.

Atheism is not opposite anything.

[If people really actually believed in Atheism

Atheism is not a belief. It is a lack of belief.

People should not be ignorant of what Atheism is - - - before posting made up crap.
edit on 30-3-2012 by Annee because: (no reason given)





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