Christianity vs Atheism: The Facts

Originally posted by XxForgottenLegendxX

The argument of the scholar is very simple. Yet, the argument that God does not exist just because human’s sense could not sense the existence of God is very wrong.

Dumb.

Lack of belief in a deity. Is not rejection of belief.

All Atheists are Agnostic. No One - - knows if there is a God or not. Not even Believers.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by XxForgottenLegendxX

The argument of the scholar is very simple. Yet, the argument that God does not exist just because human’s sense could not sense the existence of God is very wrong.

Dumb.

Lack of belief in a deity. Is not rejection of belief.

All Atheists are Agnostic. No One - - knows if there is a God or not. Not even Believers.

Atheist --> a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.

You labeling Atheists as agnostics is a contradictory remark.

It doesn't matter that they don't know. Atheism is a firm belief in the non-existance of God.

Originally posted by XxForgottenLegendxX


Atheist --> a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.

You labeling Atheists as agnostics is a contradictory remark.

It doesn't matter that they don't know. Atheism is a firm belief in the non-existance of God.

Lack of Belief - - is not disbelief. It is Lack of Belief. Lack of proof.

To disbelieve - - you'd first need to acknowledge God and then claim disbelief.

Any honest real Atheist will also claim Agnostic. An Atheist does not know if there is a God or not. Nothing proves or disproves God.

Lack of Belief. Lack of proof.

reply to post by Annee


I know where you're coming from Annee, but what you first said was that every Atheist was an Agnostic. There are famous individuals and people I know personally, who blatantly follow the path of Atheism as a definition, denying the existance of God completely. If any honest Atheist is an Agonistic, then they're not Atheist.

Originally posted by XxForgottenLegendxX
reply to post by Annee

 

I know where you're coming from Annee, but what you first said was that every Atheist was an Agnostic. There are famous individuals and people I know personally, who blatantly follow the path of Atheism as a definition, denying the existance of God completely. If any honest Atheist is an Agonistic, then they're not Atheist.

Atheism has one definition: Lack of Belief in a god/deity. That is the only thing it means.

There is no "path of Atheism" - - as in a belief - - because it is not a belief. It has ONE definition.

Each individual Atheist - - can believe whatever they want beyond the one common denominator (lack of belief in a god/deity). That would be called an Atheist's Philosophy.

An Atheist can not honestly state - - there is no god - - because god can not be proven or dis-proven.

Sometimes in debates - - an Atheist will state "there is no god" - - we'll call that poetic license. If asked point blank - - the correct answer is Agnostic Atheist - - there is no proof either way. God can not be proven or dis-proven.

A real honest Atheist - - will also claim Agnostic Atheist. Lack of Belief - Lack of Proof.

reply to post by Annee

There is no "path of Atheism" - - as in a belief - - because it is not a belief. It has ONE definition.

You need to reexamine your logic. Since atheists cannot prove there is no god, but believe there isn't because no one can prove there is a god either, that makes it a belief. There is no proof of either, in their eyes, so it's a belief.

Can they prove there is no god? If there is no proof, then it is a theory. And a theory is a belief that is supported by evidence that isn't concrete, but implies that they are on the right track.

An Atheist can not honestly state - - there is no god - - because god can not be proven or dis-proven.

Exactly.

A real honest Atheist - - will also claim Agnostic Atheist. Lack of Belief - Lack of Proof.

An agnostic believes it cannot be proven or disprove...and also that it doesn't matter. Atheists are convinced there is no god.

It's like...elephants. I believe that elephants may or may not exist, but we can't see or touch them. Regardless, it doesn't matter because elephants do not interfere with my life.

An atheist will say, "No. Elephants do not exist. I see evidence that elephants do not exist, but I can't readily prove it. Not that it really matters...but if asked, I don't believe in them."

Do you see the difference now? How can you argue with religion if you can't even correctly define the different faiths and mindsets?

Originally posted by Starchild23
reply to post by Annee

 

There is no "path of Atheism" - - as in a belief - - because it is not a belief. It has ONE definition.

You need to reexamine your logic. Since atheists cannot prove there is no god, but believe there isn't because no one can prove there is a god either, that makes it a belief. There is no proof of either, in their eyes, so it's a belief.

I've been debating this for at least 10 years - - how about you?

I grew up Christian - - am now Atheist.

Let me know after you spend a few years Atheist - - - what you've learned.

The Persistent And Incorrect Belief That Atheism Is A Religion

It is suggested by many people that atheism is a religion. Before we can examine why atheism is sometimes defined as a belief, it is important to understand who defines it as such. Rarely, if ever, will you find another atheist, agnostic, freethinker, humanist, secularist, etc., putting the definition of religion in the context of atheism. Almost without exception, it is the religious who do so. The reason is simple. The religious are are so caught up in their own beliefs that imagining another person without having any religious beliefs is largely incomprehensible. Those who claim that atheism is a religion do not only lack a clear understanding of what atheism is, they also tend to use religious terms to describe atheism.

There exists only one definition of atheism, and that is simply the lack of a belief in a deity. There is a philosophical aspect to atheism, but it is not part of the definition, but an extension of the individual. Atheism, in of itself, cannot be described as religious because it takes mental gymnastics to attach the narrative, experiential, social, ethical, doctrinal, ritual and material aspects of religion to atheism because it is not a structured system with defined rules. It has no uniform beliefs and is not a means of understanding our existence. atheists.org...

reply to post by Annee

I've been debating this for at least 10 years - - how about you?

I grew up Christian - - am now Atheist.

If your debates had gotten you anywhere, you would have realized that not only is there a God, but it really doesn't matter how we treat that god, as long as we respect one another.

Just because there is destruction on this earth, does not mean there isn't a god. It means there is a grand design, and we are fighting it every step of the way. Kind of like teenagers.

AGNOSTICISM: THE BASIS FOR ATHEISM, NOT AN ALTERNATIVE TO IT

By David Eller

What is Agnosticism?

Agnosticism is a recent concept, introduced by Thomas Huxley, the famous friend and advocate of Darwin, to describe his own concerns about knowledge and belief. It is derived from the Greek roots a- for 'no' or 'without' and gnosis for 'knowledge.' Dictionary definitions, which are often worse than useless, tend to depict it as the position that certain things, like god(s), are unknown or ultimately unknowable; in common usage it is a third religious position between Atheism or Theism. The Oxford World Encyclopedia goes so far as to declare that it is a \reasoned basis for the rejection of both Christianity and Atheism.

However, neither dictionaries nor common usage reflect Huxley's intent in coining the term. His original formulation of the concept goes as follows:

Agnosticism is not a creed but a method, the essence of which lies in the vigorous application of a single principle. Positively the principle may be expressed as, in matters of the intellect, follow your reason as far as it can carry you without other considerations. And negatively, in matters of the intellect, do not pretend the conclusions are certain that are not demonstrated or demonstrable. It is wrong for a man to say he is certain of the objective truth of a proposition unless he can produce evidence which logically justifies that certainty.

In this characterization, which we can take as authoritative, there is no mention of belief in general or of religion in particular. Rather, it addresses what we should and can claim to know. It is akin to skepticism in the less extreme sense: not that it is impossible to have knowledge or that we have none but that we should not claim to have knowledge that we do not have. atheists.org...

reply to post by Annee


You know what is really ironic? All these Christians who claim that Christianity is NOT a religion!
www.christinyou.net...
www.youtube.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Yeah, but atheism is? Mkay.

Originally posted by Starchild23
reply to post by Annee

 

I've been debating this for at least 10 years - - how about you?

I grew up Christian - - am now Atheist.

If your debates had gotten you anywhere, you would have realized that not only is there a God, . . .

A bit arrogant of you to tell me what I should have realized.

I've been researching debating the existence of Jesus - God - and a few other "labeled" individuals - - for 50 years.

The Atheist debate was only the last 10 years.

reply to post by Annee


Atheism isn't a religion? Hold on a second...

re·li·gion/riˈlijən/
Noun:

1 The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, esp. a personal God or gods.
2 Details of belief as taught or discussed.

As you can see, I am being fair. I have pasted the ENTIRE result of the definition. However, I would direct your attention to the second definition, as the first definition applies to the more loosely used version of the word "religion".

Now, allow me to elaborate on how that second line applies. Anything that is based on unproven opinion is a belief. Have you proven god doesn't exist? In your own mind, circumstantial evidence suggests to you that no god exists.

Have you any concrete proof? No? Okay. That makes it a belief.

"Details of belief...as taught or discussed." Have you discussed the details of your atheism? As a member of ATS, I daresay you have. You have discussed the details of your belief.

Hence, atheism is a religion. Why? Because you believe it's the truth, but are unable to provide incontrovertible, absolute proof that it is true.

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by Annee

 

You know what is really ironic? All these Christians who claim that Christianity is NOT a religion!

www.christinyou.net...
www.youtube.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Yeah, but atheism is? Mkay.

Awesome!

reply to post by Annee


Would you mind reading this thread? The third post is the one regarding your "evolution".

Evolution Flawed

I detest looking everything up and linking it all again after the work has been finished, so I would appreciate your attentive examination of that thread.

Originally posted by Starchild23

As you can see, I am being fair. I have pasted the ENTIRE result of the definition. However, I would direct your attention to the second definition, as the first definition applies to the more loosely used version of the word "religion".

You are arguing with an Atheist - - who knows her Atheism - - and telling me I am wrong.

You want me to find the article that says dictionaries are catching up to the correct definition of: Atheism?

Some of the definitions are almost comical - - with their religious opinion input.

reply to post by Hydroman


And our science is capable of providing all of the evidence? We, as Homo Sapiens, have existed for less than 3,000 years. We, as modern scientists, have existed for half of that.

Please tell me, in a world that has existed for 10 times longer than we have, how we are supposed to have every scrap of evidence in the palm of our hands when we have already proven that Einstain's largely accepted theories are now incorrect, and we are STILL studying antimatter and black holes.

There is so much we don't yet know or understand, and we have the gonads to claim to know if there is a god or not?

Hahaha...blegh. I can't decide whether to be amused by the vanity, or disgusted by the arrogance and impatience.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Starchild23

As you can see, I am being fair. I have pasted the ENTIRE result of the definition. However, I would direct your attention to the second definition, as the first definition applies to the more loosely used version of the word "religion".

You are arguing with an Atheist - - who knows her Atheism - - and telling me I am wrong.

You want me to find the article that says dictionaries are catching up to the correct definition of: Atheism?

Some of the definitions are almost comical - - with their religious opinion input.

If you knew your atheism, you would know that you know virtually nothing about this world.

You've been around less than a hundred years. Hundreds have been studying it for twice that long (accumulated years of study, that is) and still haven't found the bottom line.

Do you know something they don't? And I daresay you haven't read that thread I showed you.

Originally posted by Starchild23

If you knew your atheism, you would know that you know virtually nothing about this world.

Shakes Head.

You've been around less than a hundred years. Hundreds have been studying it for twice that long (accumulated years of study, that is) and still haven't found the bottom line.

Bottom line: Lack of Belief in a God/Deity - - no studying required.

reply to post by Annee

Bottom line: Lack of Belief in a God/Deity - - no studying required.

Lack of belief in cellular structure and the existence of other galaxies - - no studying required.

Lack of studying = lack of learning. Lack of learning = lack of cognitive activity. Lack of cognitive activity = lack of progress. Lack of progress = never knowing the truth.

Am I seriously teaching a...what? 50 year old? I thought you'd know this.

Originally posted by Starchild23
reply to post by Annee

 

Bottom line: Lack of Belief in a God/Deity - - no studying required.

Lack of belief in cellular structure and the existence of other galaxies - - no studying required.

Atheism is Lack of Belief in a God/Deity - - - Period!

You are off on your own tangent.