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YECs: The age of the earth?

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posted on Mar, 30 2012 @ 02:28 AM
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Hello friends,

I have a quick point I would like to make because I've not seen a good argument against it yet. I think I can show that this earth is much older than 10,000 years. Maybe I can, maybe I can't, but I want to try, and I want to see what the YECs think.

I want to start with day 4 of creation.

KJV Genesis 1:14-19 "And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

Now, the first, second, third, fifth, and sixth day deal with the biblical god creating things for earth. The fourth day is the day where this god created the rest of the universe. It says he created the lights in the firmament, which would be all the galaxies, stars, planets, etc. He did this right in the middle of creating things on earth. So on the fourth day, that one single day, he created the rest of the entire universe in one fail swoop.

After creating galaxies, stars, planets, he continues working on earth until he is finished after day 6, and then he rests.

Let's talk about the supernova. Recently, amateur astronomers discovered a star going supernova in a galaxy that resides 33 million light years from earth. This would mean that when that star exploded, it took 33 million years for that change of light to reach our eyes. If that is the case, and galaxies were created on day four, right in the middle of creating earth, this earth would be at least 33 million years old. Yet, there are other supernovae which have occured much further away than that. One that I can think of was 250 million light years away.

The argument I have heard against this, is that god put the light already in its path, in the same manner that he created man already full grown. But this can not be the case, and here is why:

First, this would mean that the biblical god created these stars in an already exploded state. That doesn't make any sense. Also, we have witnessed these stars before they exploded. So, that means we saw their normal light, then we saw them explode, which is the change of light. When that change of light occured, it took millions of years to get here.

Secondly, if the biblical god created the light already on its path to earth, we should see all supernovae at the exact same time, in one instance, imo.

Thoughts?




posted on Mar, 30 2012 @ 03:12 AM
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* Yawn*
Just being rude, no offence. This isnt a tricky issue at all.
It had perplexed me as a YEC for some time. A simple reading of the bible (some help) explained it away quickly.

He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heavens by his discretion.
Jeremiah 10:12

He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heaven by his understanding.
Jeremiah 51:15

Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea.
Job 9:8

He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, [and] hangeth the earth upon nothing.
Job 26:7

Hast thou with him spread out the sky, [which is] strong, [and] as a molten looking glass?
Job 37:18

He bowed the heavens also, and came down: and darkness [was] under his feet.
Psalms 18:9

Who coverest [thyself] with light as [with] a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:
Psalms 104:2

Bow thy heavens, O LORD, and come down: touch the mountains, and they shall smoke.
Psalms 144:5





God created the Earth as the approximate center and stretched out the universe from there.
The real question then is the earth the center of the universe. Well lets talk Red shift and Blue shift.
Red shift is what we see as objects move away from us, yes everything we see in the universe has redshift cept one star.



posted on Mar, 30 2012 @ 03:21 AM
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Originally posted by borntowatch
God created the Earth as the approximate center and stretched out the universe from there.
The real question then is the earth the center of the universe. Well lets talk Red shift and Blue shift.
Red shift is what we see as objects move away from us, yes everything we see in the universe has redshift cept one star.
You are saying that the earth is the approximate center of the universe? Our planet exist on the edge of the Milky Way Galaxy (not the center of the galaxy), three planets away from our sun (not the center of our solar system), but you think that it is near the center of the universe??

Wouldn't red shift work from any view point in the universe? Wouldn't any point you stood at in the universe appear to be the center? It would be like trying to find the center point of a basketball...

Next, how do you account for the travel of light again from a supernova?
edit on 30-3-2012 by Hydroman because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 30 2012 @ 03:27 AM
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If you found out that the Earth was in the approximate center of the universe, where would that leave your beliefs?



posted on Mar, 30 2012 @ 03:35 AM
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Originally posted by borntowatch
If you found out that the Earth was in the approximate center of the universe, where would that leave your beliefs?
First, why would it be in the appoximate center of the universe and not THE center of the universe?

Second, why wouldn't all points in the universe appear to be in the center since the universe is expanding like a balloon?

Third, I don't know where it would leave my beliefs.

Fourth, how do you account for the light of supernovae?



posted on Mar, 30 2012 @ 05:36 AM
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101 evidences for a young age of the Earth and the universe (rebuttal)

Age of the Earth

Young Earth creationism

Evidence against a recent creation

There's just so many aspects of science that weigh in on the age of the earth. Every single one suggesting the same thing; that it's well over tens thousands of years. Very, very well over that number.

I honestly don't think I've seen any young-earther who wasn't either blissfully unaware, or straight up practicing denialism. I don't think I've seen anyone even manage to make it look like they were holding their own arguing the point that their view is scientific.



posted on Mar, 30 2012 @ 09:31 AM
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Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by borntowatch
If you found out that the Earth was in the approximate center of the universe, where would that leave your beliefs?
First, why would it be in the appoximate center of the universe and not THE center of the universe?

Second, why wouldn't all points in the universe appear to be in the center since the universe is expanding like a balloon?

Third, I don't know where it would leave my beliefs.

Fourth, how do you account for the light of supernovae?


I would love to answer that but I dont think anything I say will help you. Search say Creation and blue shift

Astronomers have long observed that light from distant galaxies is usually redshifted. That is, their light spectrum is “redder” (i.e. a longer wavelength) than light from similar light sources near Earth. According to the law developed by astronomer Edwin Hubble (after whom the Hubble telescope is named), the redshifts are progressively larger for galaxies progressively further away.
Over the last few decades, astronomers have discovered that the redshifts of the galaxies are not evenly distributed but are “quantized’, i.e., they tend to fall into distinct groups. This means that the distances to the galaxies also fall into groups, with each group of galaxies forming a conceptual spherical shell. The shells turn out to be about a million light-years apart.
It is remarkable that the shells are all concentric and all centered on our home galaxy, the Milky Way. If they weren’t, we would not see groups of redshifts. Russ Humphreys shows that groups would only be distinct from each other if our viewing location were less than a million light years (a trivial distance on the scale of the universe) from the center.
The odds for the Earth having such a unique position in the cosmos by accident are less than one in a trillion. The problem for big bang theorists is that they suppose the cosmos was not created but happened by accident—by chance, natural processes. Such naturalistic processes could not have put us at a unique center, so atheistic cosmologists have sought other explanations, without notable success so far.

www.answersingenesis.org...
Due to the fact the world is in orbit around the Sun, there can be no dead center.
We see some blue shift in Alpha centauri because it is affected by the Suns gravity

www.astronomyforbeginners.com...
The Doppler effect shows every object except AC is moving away from the earth



posted on Mar, 30 2012 @ 09:34 AM
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Originally posted by xxsomexpersonxx
101 evidences for a young age of the Earth and the universe (rebuttal)

Age of the Earth

Young Earth creationism

Evidence against a recent creation

There's just so many aspects of science that weigh in on the age of the earth. Every single one suggesting the same thing; that it's well over tens thousands of years. Very, very well over that number.

I honestly don't think I've seen any young-earther who wasn't either blissfully unaware, or straight up practicing denialism. I don't think I've seen anyone even manage to make it look like they were holding their own arguing the point that their view is scientific.


WOW Great links, what a telling blow.
What to hard for you to explain in laymans terms??

The geological time scale is a 200 year old pseudo science, never seen in nature or proven as a science.



posted on Mar, 30 2012 @ 12:41 PM
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reply to post by borntowatch
 


If all you say is true, does this point to an earth younger than 10,000 years? Next, why do astronomers say that a supernova occured in a galaxy 33 million light years away if it isn't really that far away? How do they come up with these distances?
edit on 30-3-2012 by Hydroman because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 30 2012 @ 12:54 PM
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Originally posted by borntowatch
It is remarkable that the shells are all concentric and all centered on our home galaxy, the Milky Way. If they weren’t, we would not see groups of redshifts.
If we were part of the Andromeda Galaxy, would the same effect occur there as we looked out into space? Would it not appear that we were the center of the universe? I guess what I'm saying is, how do you know it wouldn't look the same from any other point in the universe?



posted on Mar, 31 2012 @ 01:33 AM
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reply to post by xxsomexpersonxx
 


No they don't.



posted on Mar, 31 2012 @ 02:47 AM
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Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by borntowatch
It is remarkable that the shells are all concentric and all centered on our home galaxy, the Milky Way. If they weren’t, we would not see groups of redshifts.
If we were part of the Andromeda Galaxy, would the same effect occur there as we looked out into space? Would it not appear that we were the center of the universe? I guess what I'm saying is, how do you know it wouldn't look the same from any other point in the universe?


All the objects moving away from the center and preceding earth will show signs of red shift and those moving out and after from the center would have a definite blue Doppler effect.
Its hard to explain without drawings and images and I cant be bothered spending ages searching, linking and explaining.
This is proven science. Best you research it yourself if you want the truth.
God stretched the universe from a central point, roughly us, as it was stretched light remained. Thats the theory.
Ever wondered why there are no new planets stars and comets.
Thats well worth researching as well. Mind the pooh though.



posted on Mar, 31 2012 @ 04:12 AM
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Originally posted by borntowatch
ry.
Ever wondered why there are no new planets stars and comets.
Thats well worth researching as well. Mind the pooh though.


Google stellar nursery
Or
www.dailymail.co.uk...

so there are new stars and planets (forming around the new stars)

why would you think there aren’t any?
edit on 31-3-2012 by racasan because: quotes went wonky?



posted on Mar, 31 2012 @ 07:49 AM
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Stellar nursery? You are pissing in my pocket surely.
9 months before a planet pops out



posted on Mar, 31 2012 @ 08:40 AM
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Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
reply to post by xxsomexpersonxx
 


No they don't.


Ambigous post.

Even in reply to my post, I really don't know who "They" are or what they "Don't" do.

Are you saying the sciences don't show evidences towards a much older earth than any young earth creationist would say? Because, they do. I provided links, showing piles of different parts from different areas of science, all well explained in how they indicate an older age.

You can't take a pile of evidence, and assert that it's not there. That simply isn't convincing to anyone.



posted on Mar, 31 2012 @ 08:45 AM
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reply to post by borntowatch
 


Yes it is an amusing name – but it’s a good description for these large gas clouds or nebula

the nebula are thought to be remains of large ‘first generation’ stars that have gone through their life and exploded as super nova and the gas clouds that are produced are full of the heavy elements (produced by nuclear synthesis in the star) needed to create planets and life


Did you check out the link
www.dailymail.co.uk...

this shows stars forming in the Orion nebula

edit on 31-3-2012 by racasan because: added something

edit on 31-3-2012 by racasan because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 31 2012 @ 08:22 PM
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Originally posted by borntowatch
All the objects moving away from the center and preceding earth will show signs of red shift and those moving out and after from the center would have a definite blue Doppler effect.
Its hard to explain without drawings and images and I cant be bothered spending ages searching, linking and explaining.
This is proven science. Best you research it yourself if you want the truth.
God stretched the universe from a central point, roughly us, as it was stretched light remained. Thats the theory.
Ever wondered why there are no new planets stars and comets.
Thats well worth researching as well. Mind the pooh though.
I have been looking into this. What I'm seeing is that the universe is expanding like a balloon. All the galaxies are on the surface of the balloon. They all started near the center before the balloon is expanded. Once you start expanding the balloon, they all move outwards and begin separating from each other, the bigger the expansion the further they separate. By looking at the surface of the balloon (where are the galaxies would be), you can't find a definite center. They would all appear to be the center and moving away from each other.




posted on Mar, 31 2012 @ 08:52 PM
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reply to post by xxsomexpersonxx
 


Science show's evidence of a young earth not old. Its easy to distort the evidence to make the world seem old when you have a strong bias. Secular Scientists do this by starting with presumption that 'their is no God' in turn making most of their scientific findings inaccurate or simply misleading.



posted on Mar, 31 2012 @ 09:19 PM
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Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
Science show's evidence of a young earth not old. Its easy to distort the evidence to make the world seem old when you have a strong bias. Secular Scientists do this by starting with presumption that 'their is no God' in turn making most of their scientific findings inaccurate or simply misleading.
Yeah, and creationsists DON'T have any bias and don't search for things that match what the bible says.

/end sarcasm
edit on 31-3-2012 by Hydroman because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 31 2012 @ 10:37 PM
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Originally posted by borntowatch
If you found out that the Earth was in the approximate center of the universe, where would that leave your beliefs?


I'd be blown away if they found the edge of the universe, let alone the determine the center. And, what's on the other side of the edge? Also, It would be cool if someone went through a black hole and was to sell us what was on the other side.



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