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Are the Herbicide products I buy for my lawn and garden harmful to my plants and trees?

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posted on Mar, 29 2012 @ 07:32 PM
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I am a certified arborist, as a part of my job I diagnose problems with trees. I learned real quick that if you treat the symptoms you are treating history. By the time a symptom shows up the issues have been present for years if not decades. So when I show up to help the tree is in decline or dead, so my treatment is in vain, costly, and has no integrity... But I have to make a living somehow so I need to treat trees.

So I learned to diagnose the environment, in doing so I am able to prevent the damage to trees by early diagnosis and treatments.

This story can lead to many different areas. However Herbicide damage is what we are talking about.

So how do it determine the difference between disease and herbicide damage?

The task is complicated so I will break it down to basic ideas...
I will talk about one diagnosis in this OP and you can post any questions that you may have that may lead into other diagnosis

1. Chlorosis Is a condition that is related to nutrient uptake... Iron is the common nutrient missing in the soil that causes the yellowing...right? pH is also key to nutrient uptake, right? So you've done the iron thing, right? Changed your pH, right? Still no lasting change, right?

Well the Earth is an iron based planet, so iron is very aboundant and available to your plant...
Most soils are have excellant buffering capabilities, which means you can only change the pH temporarly. And your plant started life out in that soil in which you cannot easily change the pH or lose the iron, so its unlikely that pH is really the issue here.

So what is the problem? You tried everything under the sun, and nothing works!

Well the answer is easy... Plant growth hormones... plant growth hormones control over 12000 aspects of plant physiology and counting! In our case of chlorosis, auxin controls leaf drop or abscission. It also directs other hormones like the one that causes the chlorophyl to leave the leaf, but the yellow another hormone to stay, thus causing the tree to think its fall. Then the auxins confuse the plant system and it keeps the leaves hanging on.

Then the plant is living with out much chlorophyl... Chlorosis, Inshort your plant has a hormonal issue.

Now where do you think your plant got it from? There are only 3 ways to change the hormones in your plants:

1. Bacterial, Fungal, Viral... will kill the plant within months of Chlorosis symptoms...

2. Insect Damage, the plant will be dead within days of onset of symptons..

3. Herbicide Damage... the plant can live for years with this condition...

What did you say?

Well it seems that most chemical herbicides are made of synthetic plant growth hormones... the most common, is auxin. Aside from a few nutrient based herbicides their all plant growth hormones based herbicides, some containing over 120 different plant growth hormones!

How is that? You say? Well lets take a pine thicket for example... 1000's of pines and very little understory. What happens is that the pines exude hormones in their sap and sweat that acts like a pre-emergant herbicide that keeps compititor species from taking over the thicket, thats how they came to invent herbicides!

Can you see this diagnosis as I do?, if you need me to get technical, I can


Listen! This is meant to be a simple explanation, in plain everyday speak. Please before you Debunk 1. Do your research or 2. Take me to task!

edit on 29-3-2012 by putnamcrab because: missing phrase




posted on Mar, 29 2012 @ 07:36 PM
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one thing I know
if there is a wood pecker in your tree
its done
try not to land it on the shed

sure quite few plants have herbicides as defence mechanisms...just as many have various things about them that helps them survive..like the way there is a THC receptor in the human brain

edit on 29-3-2012 by Danbones because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 29 2012 @ 07:47 PM
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reply to post by putnamcrab
 


So you are getting at the plant hormone based herbicides are causing tree illness?

Sorry, I am just trying to follow.


Sort of messing with the balance of normal hormones, cycles, cues, etc. thus creating symptoms which are easily misdiagnosed as something else. No?



posted on Mar, 29 2012 @ 07:49 PM
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If your actually a tree expert I don't think anyone can tell you something you don't already know.

But I want to chirp in the herbicides are bad for the environment, period. And people need to stop poisoning the water supplies with herbicides and fertilizer.



posted on Mar, 29 2012 @ 08:02 PM
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reply to post by putnamcrab
 


I would like to know how to stop a neglected pair tree from producing pairs. I don't want to cut it down because it gives our backyard a lot of privacy. My golder retriever is the only one who likes the pears. She likes to eat them, ant ridden and bruised, when they're laying all over our backyard lawn.



posted on Mar, 29 2012 @ 08:20 PM
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Originally posted by nixie_nox
If your actually a tree expert I don't think anyone can tell you something you don't already know.

But I want to chirp in the herbicides are bad for the environment, period. And people need to stop poisoning the water supplies with herbicides and fertilizer.




Likewise I'm not sure I follow the focus on herbicides being the suspect culprit, especially considering the afflicted specimen are TREES.
'
i mean, hello, trees create shade which helps cut out full sun' that most weeds flourish by. trees in that sense are self-weeding, with stature.

I dont really see why people at home depot and lowes are always loadin up on gallons upon gallons of Roundup (or other brand of glyphosate) as it is BROAD spectrum.

They are wiping out every vegetation in their soil usually for up to a year with glyphosate or similar herbicides.

what happened to the good old days we actually got down on our knees and pulled out the pigweed, dandelions, crabgrass, clover, etc? we have become so chemically dependent.

but yeah, especially if youre using a broad-spectrum product like ROUND UP, then yeah it is pretty much toxic/fatal/harmful to everything in your garden including lawn plants and trees, pets, wildlife, little ones, loved ones, YOU.

using Roundup on a lawn too is silly because most lawns are comprised of grass mixtures (not one type) and so at least some of those grasses if not all are going to be killed by Monsanto's Round Up.

some organic alternatives:

www.ehow.com...

Roundup Herbicide KILLS:




edit on 29-3-2012 by BiggerPicture because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 29 2012 @ 08:31 PM
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I work for a major lawncare company so I work with herbicides all day. The herbicides we use are growth regulators so basically we starve the weeds without damaging the turf. The only time I've seen damage done to either shurbs or trees was when foliage was sprayed directly. As far as long term damage, most the damage I see is from horticultural practices in combo with disease and insect damage.



posted on Mar, 29 2012 @ 08:40 PM
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There are some new types of herbicides out now that are used commercially.

I will have to do some research,but my uncle takes care of many commercial properties and he had to go to training and get certified for the use of some of these products.
All I know from him is do not let animals or people around the areas treated for a day.
WTF kind of stuff are the putting out there now?

Also,there is a mod on here,her name is BYRD.

She is very well versed in this I do believe,some scientist.
Maybe she could help.



posted on Mar, 29 2012 @ 09:02 PM
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reply to post by putnamcrab
 


As far as I am aware the dangerous effects on plants are more of a generational thing on a genetic level.
But you obviously know more then most about the subject.



posted on Mar, 29 2012 @ 09:40 PM
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reply to post by wardk28
 


I am sure you believe that. The purpose of this post is to let you know that it does harm the plants and trees on a hormonal level...



posted on Mar, 29 2012 @ 09:42 PM
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reply to post by nixie_nox
 


I am not asking I am sharing!



posted on Mar, 29 2012 @ 09:45 PM
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reply to post by ABNARTY
 


Exactly! The herbicides don't outright kill the plants, but through hormonal disturbances kill the plant in a sloww lingering death! Sorta like what a hormonal problem does for us.



posted on Mar, 29 2012 @ 09:48 PM
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reply to post by BiggerPicture
 


Unfortunately natural herbicides contain real plant growth hormones auxins just as bad on a plant as synthetic auxins



posted on Mar, 29 2012 @ 09:51 PM
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People! Plants and trees are really big weeds... you do the math!



posted on Mar, 29 2012 @ 09:53 PM
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reply to post by IgnorantSpecies
 


Its in the hormones!



posted on Mar, 29 2012 @ 09:59 PM
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Originally posted by putnamcrab
Unfortunately natural herbicides contain real plant growth hormones auxins just as bad on a plant as synthetic auxins


Really?

Havent heard of human deaths from natural herbicides yet, are there?

There are plenty of deaths from synthetic herbicides - human, native plants, wildlife, fish, etc



posted on Mar, 29 2012 @ 10:07 PM
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reply to post by wardk28
 


Hook up with a guy that has a plant physiology phd and ask him somethings

Then hook up with a soil guy with a phd and ask him somethings I bet he will tell you that you can't readily change soil without replacing it completely. So barring a complete soil change or flood event or toxic spill all things being normal, nothing you can do as a home owner can change the soil more then very temporary. Keeping that in mind the the plant is the one that decides if it locks out a nutrient not the soil or what you put in it. And the hormones control that.

Disease and insects only account for less then 1% of all chlorosis issues



posted on Mar, 29 2012 @ 10:11 PM
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reply to post by BiggerPicture
 


Look you missed the point... all herbicides synthetic and natural contain hormones hormones in the wrong proportions are bad for both plant and animals. In this case only the plants are affected!



posted on Mar, 29 2012 @ 11:30 PM
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Originally posted by WeRpeons
reply to post by putnamcrab
 


I would like to know how to stop a neglected pair tree from producing pairs. I don't want to cut it down because it gives our backyard a lot of privacy. My golder retriever is the only one who likes the pears. She likes to eat them, ant ridden and bruised, when they're laying all over our backyard lawn.



Please please please gather your pears and take them to your local food bank. Or post a sign in your yard.. FREE Pears. I promise you some lil old lady would love to can them or make pear butter out of them.



posted on Mar, 30 2012 @ 10:34 AM
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reply to post by putnamcrab
 


I agree. This makes sense to me. While it may not speak to every issue, it can explain what you were discussing.

When we start discussing the interaction of many factors and their inherent required balances, loading up that system with one or two factors without mind to the part it plays in the whole, may be beneficial to some companies bottom line but so much for where those chemicals get dumped.

When we start talking soil, I agree we need to keep in mind how large the "soil" is. It is simply not the top couple of inches under the drip line of a tree. As far as the tree is concerned, the soil is a factory, a dynamic machine.



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