Why there's good reason to believe the "Abomination that Causes Desolations" will happen this spr

Originally posted by hab22

I believe the abomination will be set up on a wing of the temple, in the court of the Gentiles. This agrees with what Daniel and Revelation say.

There is nothing in Revelation about setting an abomination up on a wing of the Temple. Also, the original Hebrew version of Daniel reads, "By the overspreading of abominations, there will be desolation until the end," while the LXX reads, "By the holy abominations...." Nothing about wings.

Plus, Luke identified the abomination causing desolation as Jerusalem being surrounded by armies. At the destruction of Jerusalem.

Originally posted by CLPrime

Originally posted by hab22

Let me throw something into the mix that you probably have never heard.

I wouldn't be too sure about that.

It's called Jeremiah's 70 year prophecy, during which time Judah is enslaved by Babylon for the 70 years of Schmita (sabbath rest for the land) that they ignored during the time of their kings.

From the time Nebuchadnezzar removed the sovereignty of Judah's kings (by installing a puppet on the throne) in 605 BC to the time when Babylon was overthrown in 538 BC only adds up to 66.5 years, which happens to be 3 1/2 years short of the 70 year prophecy.

The Babylonians were overthrown in 538 BC, but the Jews didn't return from captivity in 538 BC. Cyrus issued the decree for their return in his first year, 537 BC (according to ancient systems of dating reignal years, which don't include the first part-year when the king begins to reign). We see, then, that the Jews would have returned either well into 537 BC or in 536 BC. Either one fulfills the 70 years prophecy.

Now get a load of this. Jeremiah tells us what will happen when the 70 years are fulfilled. Babylon will be destroyed, never to be inhabited again, Jerusalem will become a city of holiness, never to be defiled again, the Lord will enter into a new covenant with Israel at that time and the cup of the Lord's wrath will be poured out on the nations. NONE OF THOSE THINGS HAVE YET OCCURRED. In fact, Jerusalem has been defiled many times over.

All of those things have occurred. Every single one of them. Again, ask me to give you the Scripture to back this up and I will.

Also, when Jeremiah writes, "The LORD has stirred up the kings of the Medes, because his purpose is to destroy Babylon" (Jeremiah 51:11), should we expect the Medes to appear again to destroy this "end times" Babylon, or should we rather say that this has been fulfilled already by the destruction of Babylon at the hands of the Medo-Persian Empire?

Any coincidence that Arab leaders are all meeting in Baghdad, near Babylon, this week to coincide with the March?

When what you expect to happen doesn't happen, then I think we'll be able to confidently say, yes, it's a coincidence [/quote

CLPrime

I suggest you read Isaiah 13 which talks about the destruction of Babylon in the "day of the Lord" at a time when the sun turns to darkness and the moon to blood. Babylon is destroyed by the kings of the Medes in that day. And Babylon will never be inhabited again, according to the text, which concurs with Revelation 14, 17 and 18.

Revelation tells us that ten kings will arise in the time of the apocalypse who will hate the whore Babylon and destroy it. Compare this with Isaiah 13 which describes the Medes destroying Babylon in the time of apocalypse.

Therefore, there should be a ten nation alliance in place RIGHT NOW that is in the same geographic region of ancient Media. There is such an allaince. It's called the Economic Cooperative Organization (ECO) comprised of ten nations: Iran, Afghanistan, Turkey, Pakistan, and six other "stan" countries which used to be park of the Soviet Union. Their geographic location matches exactly with ancient Media. This alliance came into existence in 1992 as ten nations, and still exists as such. You can check out all ten nations and their flags at their signature website. www.ecosecretariat.org...

CLPrime

I suggest you read Isaiah 13 which talks about the destruction of Babylon in the "day of the Lord" at a time when the sun turns to darkness and the moon to blood. Babylon is destroyed by the kings of the Medes in that day. And Babylon will never be inhabited again, according to the text, which concurs with Revelation 14, 17 and 18.

Revelation tells us that ten kings will arise in the time of the apocalypse who will hate the whore Babylon and destroy it. Compare this with Isaiah 13 which describes the Medes destroying Babylon in the time of apocalypse.

Therefore, there should be a ten nation alliance in place RIGHT NOW that is in the same geographic region of ancient Media. There is such an allaince. It's called the Economic Cooperative Organization (ECO) comprised of ten nations: Iran, Afghanistan, Turkey, Pakistan, and six other "stan" countries which used to be park of the Soviet Union. Their geographic location matches exactly with ancient Media. This alliance came into existence in 1992 as ten nations, and still exists as such. You can check out all ten nations and their flags at their signature website. www.ecosecretariat.org...

Originally posted by CLPrime

Originally posted by hab22

I believe the abomination will be set up on a wing of the temple, in the court of the Gentiles. This agrees with what Daniel and Revelation say.

There is nothing in Revelation about setting an abomination up on a wing of the Temple. Also, the original Hebrew version of Daniel reads, "By the overspreading of abominations, there will be desolation until the end," while the LXX reads, "By the holy abominations...." Nothing about wings.

Plus, Luke identified the abomination causing desolation as Jerusalem being surrounded by armies. At the destruction of Jerusalem.

"And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation" Daniel 9:27 NIV. Read it.

"And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate," NKJV

reply to post by hab22


The NIV and the NKJV are wrong. The word translated as "wing" is kanaph. Metaphorically, it can refer to a wing, but it more typically refers to an extremity of something (that is, the extreme part of something, whether physical or not). In this verse, grammatically, we have to say that the word is applied to the "abomination," indicating that it is an extreme abomination - or, as I render it, the overspreading of abominations. This refers to abominations existing to such an extent that they leave the city desolate. Hence, the abomination that causes desolation. Once again, Luke applies this to the surrounding of Jerusalem by armies, which most certainly left the city desolate.

Originally posted by hab22
CLPrime

I suggest you read Isaiah 13 which talks about the destruction of Babylon in the "day of the Lord" at a time when the sun turns to darkness and the moon to blood. Babylon is destroyed by the kings of the Medes in that day. And Babylon will never be inhabited again, according to the text, which concurs with Revelation 14, 17 and 18.

Revelation 14, 17, and 18 are not talking about literal Babylon. They are talking about "Mystery, Babylon the great," which sits on seven hills. That would be Rome.

So, which "day of the Lord" is Isaiah talking about? There are multiple days of the Lord spoken of in Scripture. Even Jesus had more than one "day" (Luke 17:22). What concern did Isaiah have with the "day of the Lord" that occurs is Revelation? None...his concern was with the day of the Lord that brought the fall of the Babylonian Empire at the hands of the Medes and Persians.

You will find this heavenly omen wording many times in apocalyptic literature. It always accompanies the fall of an empire. In fact, it accompanies the fall of more than one empire. The sun goes black, the moon is darkened/turns red, and the stars fall whenever God judges an empire.

Revelation tells us that ten kings will arise in the time of the apocalypse who will hate the whore Babylon and destroy it. Compare this with Isaiah 13 which describes the Medes destroying Babylon in the time of apocalypse.

Therefore, there should be a ten nation alliance in place RIGHT NOW that is in the same geographic region of ancient Media. There is such an allaince. It's called the Economic Cooperative Organization (ECO) comprised of ten nations: Iran, Afghanistan, Turkey, Pakistan, and six other "stan" countries which used to be park of the Soviet Union. Their geographic location matches exactly with ancient Media. This alliance came into existence in 1992 as ten nations, and still exists as such. You can check out all ten nations and their flags at their signature website. www.ecosecretariat.org...

You'll also find a 10 nation alliance called the Western European Union. I used to believe that was the 10 kings of Revelation 18. I was wrong, too.

- The woman on 7 hills is Rome.
- The beast she rides is the Roman Empire.
- The 5 fallen heads of the Roman Empire are Augustus, Tiberius, Caligula, Claudius, and Nero, who had come and gone as Emperors by the time John received the revelation.
- The 1 head that was is Vespasian, who was Emperor at the time John received the revelation.
- The 1 head that would come for a short time is Titus, who reigned just 2 years.
- The 8th head is Domitian, who came after Titus

The beast was - under Nero (persecuted Christians)
The beast is not - under Vespasian (no persecution)
The beast is coming - under Domitian (again persecuted Christians)

The 10 kings were 10 persecuting emperors who came after Domitian:
1) Marcus Aurelius (AD 161-180)
2) Lucius Verus (AD 161-169)
3) Septimus Severus (AD 193-211)
4) Maximinus Thrax (AD 235-238)
5) Decius (AD 249-251)
6) Valerian (AD 253-260)
7) Diocletian (AD 284-305)
8) Maximian (AD 286-305)
9) Galerius (AD 305-311)
10) Maximinus (AD 311-313)

These kings would hate the woman and leave her naked. Under Diocletian, after AD 293, the capital of the Empire was moved from Rome, leaving her open to barbarian invasion. This ultimately led to her being sacked and overthrown in AD 476.

All of this was fulfilled.

The first abomination that causes desolation was the presence of the Roman army on Temple grounds. The second abomination that causes desolation will be related to Rome but will be quite different in nature.

reply to post by hab22


My question:

What makes Satan more evil than God? And where did this evil, which is a part of Satan, come from? In other words, if God is both all powerful and all good how can you account for the existence and continued interference of an imperfect, weaker and evil being (satan)?

reply to post by Titen-Sxull


Your question would seem to be beyond the scope of the thread.

ETA: ha...I said "scope of the fridge" first (mom and I were talking about whose pop in the fridge was whose)

Originally posted by lostinspace
The first abomination that causes desolation was the presence of the Roman army on Temple grounds. The second abomination that causes desolation will be related to Rome but will be quite different in nature.

How many obamonations are there? I had the impression there was supposed to be a puppet-image at the Dome Of Barack.

Revelation|13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Second Temple Jews understood the following references from Daniel...

Daniel 11:31 "...the abomination that maketh desolate."
Daniel 12:11 "...the abomination that maketh desolate..."

...as having been met in Antiochus Epiphanes and resolved by the Maccabeen revolution and they annually commemorate the victory to this day with Hanukkah aka the 'Feast of Dedication' or 'Festival of Lights'.


Jesus words recorded in Matthew 24 reapplied in principle Daniel's reference to the Abomination of Desolation that was demonstrated in Antiochus history...
...that of a 'desolation by an abominating' (idolatrous power) followed by 'restoration'...
...and then projects this motif forward to future events...

"When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet..." Matthew 24:15

This prediction was fulfilled in the circumstances of Jesus death (desolation) and resurrection (restoration)...
...and later destruction of Jerusalem by Vespasian/Titus in AD 70.

I think that in a sense this motif can reapplied in principle wherever the Gospel is distorted, suppressed or lost with the assurance that the Gospel will be recovered and triumph.

I also think that the historical events detailed in Daniel and reapplied by Jesus were finished by 70 AD...
...and that dispensationalist speculation in applying this to literal times/events in the modern era are in error...
...and have helped to broadcast a nefarious agenda not of divine origin.

If I may offer an alternate viewpoint:

According to Gabriel in Daniel 9, the countdown to the coming of Christ begins with one event: The reestablishment of Jerusalem to Israel. He splits the countdown into two pieces because Christ is coming twice and, as now confirmed by history, the reestablishment of Jerusalem to Israel has happened twice.

From: Reestablishment of Jerusalem after the Babylonian exile, To: The first coming of Christ = 62 "weeks of years" (434 years), according to Gabriel. Fulfilled.

From: Reestablishment of Jerusalem (1967, Six Day War), to: the second coming of Christ = 7 "weeks of years" (49 years), also according to Gabriel, though he wasn't specific about the date.

Leaving us with one extra "week of years" (the so called 70th), for Gabriel's total of 70 "weeks of years".

The reestablishment of "Old Jerusalem" to Israel is our starting point of fulfilled prophecy. From this we can assume a total of 56 years starting from 1967:

Timeline of the last days:

1967*-----------------------------------------------------------------------2023

(2023 is an approximation because we're talking about Biblical years, and not the modern Jewish calendar.)

The so called "70th week" is described by three points of prophecy, so we will recognize it when it occurs, not so we can predict it before it occurs.The three points of prophecy are:

1. Seven year treaty with Israel (1993, Oslo Accords)
2. Halting of the "daily" (March 13, 1997, halting of the daily prayer on the temple mount by the PA), (same day as Phoenix lights)
3. "Abomination of desolation" (October, 2000, Ariel Sharon climbs the temple mount, inciting the new Palestinian intifada, violence breaks out immediately. Effects of this act are still felt today. World economy plummets, world powers shifted, hard liners put in world leadership roles the very next month: Bush, Putin, Vicente Fox). Sharon soon elected leader of Israel, and implements current policy of mass imprisonment of Palestinians.

NIV footnotes: Alternate translation of Daniel 9:27: "One who causes desolation will ascend to the pinnacle of the abominable temple...". No need for "abominable acts" of any kind, or a new temple, because it's the temple itself, that is abominable in this passage.

Timeline of last days now confirmed by four points of fulfilled prophecy:

1967*-----------------------1993*---1997*---2000*--------------------------2023

The seven year treaty falls in the exact middle of the timeline, as if divinely designed. On either side of the "treaty week" are 3 1/2 seven year periods. (Biblical years.) (See Michael Rood's Biblical calendar.)

The "70th week" isn't a description of the "tribulation". The events of those seven years are the warning signal that the time is at hand. Those seven years were a time of relative peace and prosperity. It all ended on the very day Sharon ascended the temple mount.

Gabriel told Daniel that no one would understand these prophecies until the time of the end, that is, until they were fulfilled. By that, alone, we can throw any prior interpretations out the window.

reply to post by reitze


"stand in a holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand"
-Matt

and

"standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,)"
-Mark

The second scripture opens possibilities for anything to happen anywhere. A cryptic prophecy the faithful won't even understand until it's on their doorstep.


Good last sentence Alpha Arietis.

Originally posted by DarthMuerte
I must disagree with you. The temple hasn't even been built yet. We cannot have the Abomination without a temple in which it can take place. I do agree with the war starting soon though. It seems as though the Gog-Magog way of Ezekiel 38 could start any day.

Perhaps the temple is the human genome and we haven't figured it out because we don't realize it?

In that case the abomination of desolation is the destruction of the human genome... A massive broad wave
attack/trigger.

Most likely the trojan horses for this attack are already circulating, the trigger will be very fast and destructive..
if your looking for a way to visualize it....

Imagine being stuck to a live electrical wire...that's what the abomination of desolation is going to be like...you are either free and clear or stuck and doomed.

Hope that helps,

Mr medinet

reply to post by hab22

The thing that stands where it shouldn't be. I thought the desolation was the desert. And the abomination, as I saw it, is the oil infrastructure everywhere over there...

Here's your abomination of all that desolation:

Oil

The "abomination of desolation" takes place when the anti-Christ abolishes
the Eucharist. It figures, the "continual sacrifice" is the Holy Sacrifice of
the Mass.


GOD SPEAKS WILL YOU LISTEN

message to Cletus and Verne

January 28, 2011

www.godspeakswillyoulisten.org...

....If mankind does not repent of their sins, you will see the following events, after the warning. The persecution of the Holy Father, causing him to flee Rome and go into hiding. The Holy Mass becoming protestantized with the abomination of desolation taking place. My true church being forced into underground masses with my children being fed my Holy Eucharist many times by my angels. A world wide persecution of my faithful. My faithful being called to flee to my refuges. A false church being instituted with a false leader or antipope. Mankind attempting to re-institutionalize the tower of Babel, with a one world government, which will control the world's currency with the mark of the beast. An antichrist who will lead this revolt against God and who will proclaim the Masonic doctrine that all religions are equal and that the kingdom of God is a materialistic earthly kingdom.


This will cause my eternal judgment to descend on this earth and cast the antichrist and his followers into the abyss of hell for all eternity. Satan and his demons will also be locked away for 1000 years as described in Apocalypse 20:1-3. Then, the earth will go through 3 days of darkness just as my son was in the tomb for 3 days. My creation will then be renewed and the seventh day or era of peace will begin. These events are written in my Holy Scriptures. I bring messages to my people because my people do not read my Holy Scriptures. The severity and sequence of events will be determined by the response of mankind to my mercy and justice. Without repentance, these events will increase and take place in this generation. These words are a reminder that God's will, will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Be like Noah and enter my ark of refuge and enter the seventh and eighth days of creation. Verne, this understanding will give you peace this day and the days ahead.

As a side note to support my previous post;

Daniel 9:27 -

"he will confirm a covenant with many..."

Hebrew in this passage:
"he will confirm a covenant with 'rab'..."

"Rab" is the root of "Rabin", as in Yitzhak Rabin, Prime minister of Israel who signed the Oslo Accords.

Literally:
"he will confirm a covenant with Rabin for seven years"

This was literally fulfilled in September of 1993.

Originally posted by DarthMuerte
reply to post by hab22

 

You still ignore the fact that the temple has yet to be rebuilt.

ETA: This is the wrong forum. Why post it here?

edit on 29-3-2012 by DarthMuerte because: (no reason given)

It HAS been built...it's prefab and only has to be assembled in place..about 24hrs total

Another side note:

"Signs in the heavens" were very prominent between '93 and 2000.

Jupiter was struck rather spectacularly. Witnessing this event was and still is historically unprecedented. I think it was meant to get our attention.

Hale-Bopp was an unexpected comet.

On March 13, 1997, 3 1/2 years to the day of the signing of the Oslo Accords, the Palestinian Authority ceased allowing the daily Jewish prayer on the Temple mount, fulfilling the third point of prophecy on the timeline revealed by Gabriel.

On the same day, the Phoenix Lights event was witnessed by thousands of local Arizonans who were outside to catch a look at the Hale-Bopp comet in it's prime.

In Daniel chapter eight, there is a description of "celestial agents" being given over to the powers of the Earth in exchange for the taking away of the "daily sacrifice". (Referred to as "trampling of the starry host".) This could very well be what was occurring in Phoenix on that night.