Why there's good reason to believe the "Abomination that Causes Desolations" will happen this spr

reply to post by lupodigubbio
that is simple what might be spring to you is winter to others, we only see what we want to see and hear just the same, take any word ask 10 people what the word means to them, no 2 answers will be same, now pray for the guidance of the Holly Spirit and see the difference.

To claim that prophecies of literal events are only symbolic, opens them to a potentially infinite variety of "interpretations", as should be obvious by this thread, alone. I once demonstrated this fact by making a chart of how the events in the Star Wars saga fulfilled all the prophecies of Revelations. It was very convincing too.

In the end, these interpretations are the worst form of dogma, spawned in imagination. They say, "I've figure out on my own what all these symbols mean", but I've yet to see a demonstrable system of "symbol interpretation" that is Bible based.

Now, instead of nebulous symbol interpretation, here are some facts:

Gabriel said that four specific things were going to happen as signs in the last days:

1. Restoration of Jerusalem to Israel begins a 49 year countdown to Christ's return, plus an "extra" 7 years.

(The next three events are to happen at the beginning, middle, and end of a seven year period)

2. Seven year treaty
3. In the midst of the treaty: halting of the "daily"
4. At the end of the treaty: "one who causes desolation will ascend to the pinnacle of the abominable temple..." (NIV alternate translation from footnotes, widely regarded as the most accurate translation of the verse in print)

This is very simple to discern from Daniel chapter nine. This is the one event Christ himself referred to as the sign that the end was "right at the door".

Here's the fulfillment, all facts:

1. 1967 Jerusalem restored to Israel
2. 1993, Oslo Accords, a seven year treaty between Israel and the Palestinian Authority
3. 1997, the PA halts the Jewish daily prayer on the temple mount in the exact middle of the treaty
4. 2000, Ariel Sharon ascends the Temple Mount, wrongly proclaiming that any Jew has the sovereign right to walk on the Temple Mount, thereby inciting mass violence that is still continuing.

In a supernatural display of divine design, the Treaty Week of 1993-2000 falls in the exact middle of the timeline revealed by Gabriel.

Starting in 1967, there are exactly 3 1/2 seven year periods before 1993. There are also exactly 3 1/2 seven year periods remaining on the timeline following the October 2000 Ariel Sharon event. Exactly as prophecy outlines.

These are the "time, times and half a time". The "times" are seven year periods or "weeks of years".
Christ could return at any time within the last seven years on the timeline. This will be the "season" of his return, though, as written, the day and hour, specifically will not be known. (Parable of the fig tree reveals that the season of his return will be recognized by those who are watching.)

If these current events are a "deception" as was implied earlier, then I would expect that this viewpoint would be widespread, touted by all sorts who seek to make a buck. Instead, it's nearly impossible to find word one about it.

The deceptive interpretations are common and widespread. They blind many from the real truth.

Now for some speculation based on the facts I presented.

I speculate that the "seven year periods", not including the "treaty week", correspond to the seven seals of Revelations.

In which case, we are about to enter the sixth week of years, that is, the sixth seal is about to be broken. I've always found it interesting that the sixth seal would be broken in 2012, with the whole Mayan thing and all, since the sixth seal is the beginning of an apparent cosmic upheaval of sorts.

Here are my speculations about the first five seals, already broken.

1st seal: 1967-1974 - Israel takes back it's covenant lands (conqueror)

2nd seal 1975-1981 - Israel becomes a nuclear power (a great sword)

3rd seal 1982-1988 - Israel stabilizes it's economy with the Economic Stabilization Act of 1985 (balances)

4th seal (cut in half by the treaty week) 1989-1993 - First gulf war, first WCT attack (death and hell)

TREATY WEEK 1993-2000 - prophecies fulfilled

4th seal (second half) 2000- 2004 -Second gulf war, second WTC attack (death and hell resume)

5th seal - 2005-2012 - Christian beheadings begin (martyrs seen under the throne)

6th seal 2012- 2019 - cosmic upheaval (trumpet and vial judgements begin?)

7th seal 2019- 2025 - silence in heaven? return of Christ?

Like I said, these are my speculations based on what Daniel nine has revealed about our times. I think they are sound.

Take note of how both the Gulf war, and the WTC attacks picked right back up where they left off when the "Treaty Week" was over.

Also take note of how the "Treaty Week" was a period of relative prosperity and optimism, that seemed to end completely at the end of 2000, after Sharon ascended the Temple Mount.

I lived through it, taking note of all these things as they happened.

To watch how world events have been in a downward spiral since the so called "abomination" event in 2000, has been a profound experience.

Witness it for yourself, the actual so-called "abomination of desolation" event, and the initial violence that ensued:




Not so easy to find an English version on youtube, for some reason, but still worth watching.

reply to post by Alpha Arietis


Yet, your claim that prophecy must see literal, physical fulfillment undermines everything that Christ accomplished at his first coming. Christ ushered in his Kingdom - his spiritual kingdom, which cannot be seen even with careful observation. The Kingdom is not a matter of food and drink, but of joy in the Holy Spirit. And you want Christ to come back and establish a physical Kingdom, in physical Israel, reinstate useless animal sacrifice in a physical, corruptible Temple, for 1000 years? That is contrary to the sacrifice of Christ, which occurred to establish spiritual perfection. You want to return to physical imperfection? Paul said that he was not at home in the body...yet you want to stay here? In fact, you want Christ to come back here? I find that interesting.

As I said a couple days ago, we know for a fact that a large part of the prophets were fulfilled with the first coming of Christ and with the days of the early Church, because the NT writers say so. They spell it out, point blank, quoting relevant prophecies and pointing to their fulfillment. How can we overlook that?

Though, I will say, I used to do the same thing, even just as recently as a couple years ago. It's all a matter of what you're taught - and whether you listen to those fallible teachers, or to the infallible Word of God. I was once told that to go against the majority view on Scripture is bordering on arrogance - as if the majority must be right. Well...If siding with truth is arrogance, then so be it.

Originally posted by CLPrime
reply to post by Alpha Arietis

 

Yet, your claim that prophecy must see literal, physical fulfillment undermines everything that Christ accomplished at his first coming.

Surely you're not saying that the events of Christ's "first advent" weren't literal fulfillments of prophecy.

And if you mean that his work nullified any need for physical manifestations of his power in our age, i.e. literal fulfillment of prophecy, then I strongly disagree.

Christ ushered in his Kingdom - his spiritual kingdom, which cannot be seen even with careful observation. The Kingdom is not a matter of food and drink, but of joy in the Holy Spirit.

Spiritual kingdom? Yes. Physical kingdom? Also yes.
Do you doubt that the resurrection will be a physical occurrence on this Earth?
When Christ was resurrected, he was a being of flesh. He proved this to the disciples who were mumbling about him being a spirit, by eating a fish in their presence, and allowing Thomas to touch his wounds.

And you want Christ to come back and establish a physical Kingdom, in physical Israel, reinstate useless animal sacrifice in a physical, corruptible Temple, for 1000 years?

It's not a matter of what I want, brother. It's a matter of what God has revealed to us about the future.
I don't think animal sacrifice is going to be reinstated either.

That is contrary to the sacrifice of Christ, which occurred to establish spiritual perfection. You want to return to physical imperfection? Paul said that he was not at home in the body...yet you want to stay here? In fact, you want Christ to come back here? I find that interesting.

Terms like "spiritual perfection" are a little vague. Can you describe the metaphysical mechanisms involved with this concept?

The Earth is cursed, according to Genesis. At the return of Christ, the curse will be lifted. "Physical perfection", if you will. Don't be so quick to rule it out just because we've never experienced it.

As I said a couple days ago, we know for a fact that a large part of the prophets were fulfilled with the first coming of Christ and with the days of the early Church, because the NT writers say so. They spell it out, point blank, quoting relevant prophecies and pointing to their fulfillment. How can we overlook that?

I don't think we're overlooking that at all.

Though, I will say, I used to do the same thing, even just as recently as a couple years ago. It's all a matter of what you're taught - and whether you listen to those fallible teachers, or to the infallible Word of God.

I don't listen to any teachers. I read the Word. I study history. I pay attention to current events.
I've examined all the scholars and their conclusions. I see what I see and that's it.

I was once told that to go against the majority view on Scripture is bordering on arrogance - as if the majority must be right. Well...If siding with truth is arrogance, then so be it.

I feel the same way, brother.

I mentioned a couple days ago that every goal for the end of the 70 Weeks of Daniel 9 was fulfilled. I offered to provide the Scriptural proof of this, but no one asked for it. Here it is anyway.

First the goals:

1) Put an end to sin
2) Seal up sin
3) Removal of transgressions
4) Atonement of iniquity
5) Bringing in of everlasting righteousness
6) Sealing up of vision and prophecy
7) Anointing of the holy of holies

Now, how each of these were fulfilled:

Put an end to sin
Hebrews 9:26b -- "He has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself."
The context here is the replacing of the old, imperfect system with the new, perfect blood of Christ. And, what do we see? We actually see to things. Mainly, we see that the sacrifice of Christ did away with sin. So, did Christ not put an end to sin? The second thing we see here is the phrase "at the culmination of the ages" -- that is, at the end of the ages. How many times do we see the "last days" or the "end of days" mentioned in Old Testament prophecy? Well, here it is. Jesus sacrifice himself...at the end of the ages.

Seal up sin
This is really no different than Jesus putting an end to sin (which is why it's left out of most translations of Daniel 9. However, we do also see a somewhat distinct aspect here. Sealing, in context, suggests an image of someone writing sins on a scroll, rolling them up, and stamping a seal over them to shut them up. This leads to two images: forgetting sin, and covering sin. Jesus accomplished both.
Hebrews 10:15-18 -- After saying that Jesus was the once-for-all sacrifice for sin, the writer of Hebrews says, "The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says: 'This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds.' Then he adds: 'Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more.' And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary."
Here, the quote is from Jeremiah 31:33-34, indicating its fulfillment in Christ.
And Romans 4:7, quoting David's Psalm 32:1 -- "'Blessed are they whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered.'"
Paul applies this to salvation by faith, which, with the sacrifice of Christ, must include Gentiles as well as Jews. Our transgressions are forgiven (see the below), and our sins are covered.

Removal of transgression
Colossians 2:13-15 -- "When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross."
Knowing that sin, transgression, iniquity, and lawlessness are all the same, that verse should speak for itself.

Atonement of iniquity
1 Peter 2:24 -- "He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by his wounds you have been healed."
Again: sin = transgression = iniquity = lawlessness. Christ atoned for our iniquities on the cross.

Bringing in everlasting righteousness
Romans 8:10 -- "But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness."
Romans 10:4 -- "Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes."
Will this righteousness end? Is it not everlasting?

Sealing up of vision and prophecy
After Jesus had been raised from the dead, he met two people discussing his death.
Luke 24:25-27 -- "He said to them, 'How foolish you are, and how slow to believe all that the prophets have spoken! Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?' And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself."
Yet, you say these things speak of things still future to us?
And then, while he was with his disciples:
Luke 24:44 -- "He said to them, 'This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.'"

Continued on next post...

...continued from previous post.

Anointing of the holy of holies
After Jesus' baptism:
Luke 4:14-21 -- "Jesus returned to Galilee in the power of the Spirit, and news about him spread through the whole countryside. He was teaching in their synagogues, and everyone praised him. He went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath day he went into the synagogue, as was his custom. He stood up to read, and the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him. Unrolling it, he found the place where it is written: 'The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to set the oppressed free, to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.' Then he rolled up the scroll, gave it back to the attendant and sat down. The eyes of everyone in the synagogue were fastened on him. He began by saying to them, 'Today this scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.'"
And:
Acts 10:34-38 -- "Then Peter began to speak: 'I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism but accepts from every nation the one who fears him and does what is right. You know the message God sent to the people of Israel, announcing the good news of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all. You know what has happened throughout the province of Judea, beginning in Galilee after the baptism that John preached— how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him.'"

As you can see, the New Testament clearly testifies to the fact that the goals of the 70 Weeks of Daniel 9 were all fulfilled in Christ.

Originally posted by Alpha Arietis

Surely you're not saying that the events of Christ's "first advent" weren't literal fulfillments of prophecy.

They were because they had to be. The Law was a physical covenant, and Jesus had to physically fulfill it. No sinful man or woman can achieve perfection in accordance with the Law. Only Jesus could do this. Because of that, he had to fulfill the Law, achieving what no one else could do. In perfecting the physical, he has made the spiritual attainable to us.

And if you mean that his work nullified any need for physical manifestations of his power in our age, i.e. literal fulfillment of prophecy, then I strongly disagree.

Any reason? Or just 'cause?

Spiritual kingdom? Yes. Physical kingdom? Also yes.
Do you doubt that the resurrection will be a physical occurrence on this Earth?

I do (1 Thessalonians 4 is quite clear about that, as is John 14). Our resurrection home is in heaven.
I also "doubt" that there is a physical Kingdom, considering no mention of a physical Kingdom is mentioned anywhere in the New Testament. Every NT mention of the Kingdom is spiritual. In fact, many times when the Kingdom is mentioned, it is specifically denied that the Kingdom is physical (John 18:36, for example).

When Christ was resurrected, he was a being of flesh. He proved this to the disciples who were mumbling about him being a spirit, by eating a fish in their presence, and allowing Thomas to touch his wounds.

Spiritual flesh. See 1 Corinthians 15 - especially from verse 35 on, in which Paul specifically tackles the concept of the resurrected body.

It's not a matter of what I want, brother. It's a matter of what God has revealed to us about the future.
I don't think animal sacrifice is going to be reinstated either.

Fair enough. Though, today, it's not about what God has revealed to us about the future - it's about what he has revealed to us about how we are to live our lives in service of him. Today.

Terms like "spiritual perfection" are a little vague. Can you describe the metaphysical mechanisms involved with this concept?

Spiritual perfection is maturity and entirety of understanding in what is spiritual (Christ, God, faith, and so on). Now, we understand in part - then, we will understand in full (1 Corinthians 13). Romans 8 does a good job of describing how we are to live now in the Spirit. Spiritual perfection is this perfected.

The Earth is cursed, according to Genesis. At the return of Christ, the curse will be lifted. "Physical perfection", if you will. Don't be so quick to rule it out just because we've never experienced it.

Got any Scripture that says the curse will be lifted at the return of Christ?

Originally posted by CLPrime


1) Put an end to sin
2) Seal up sin
3) Removal of transgressions
4) Atonement of iniquity
5) Bringing in of everlasting righteousness
6) Sealing up of vision and prophecy
7) Anointing of the holy of holies

1) Sin continues
2) All sin is plainly seen by us all
3) Transgressions continue
4) Iniquities, though the work of atonement is finished, continue on the Earth
5) Everlasting righteousness has not yet come to Earth
6) Prophecies continue to be fulfilled since 1967
7) Not yet accomplished

Originally posted by CLPrime

Anointing of the holy of holies
After Jesus' baptism:
Luke 4:14-21 -- "Jesus returned to Galilee in the power of the Spirit, and news about him spread through the whole countryside. He was teaching in their synagogues, and everyone praised him. He went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath day he went into the synagogue, as was his custom. He stood up to read, and the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him. Unrolling it, he found the place where it is written: 'The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to set the oppressed free, to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.' Then he rolled up the scroll, gave it back to the attendant and sat down. The eyes of everyone in the synagogue were fastened on him. He began by saying to them, 'Today this scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.'"

I'm sure that you're aware that Jesus was quoting from Isaiah 61 and that he stopped mid-sentence, leaving off "and the day of vengeance of our God", clearly because that "day" pertains to his second advent.

Originally posted by CLPrime

Got any Scripture that says the curse will be lifted at the return of Christ?

Sure, How about Daniel 9:24 that lay out these criteria:

1) Put an end to sin
2) Seal up sin
3) Removal of transgressions
4) Atonement of iniquity
5) Bringing in of everlasting righteousness
6) Sealing up of vision and prophecy
7) Anointing of the holy of holies

just for starters

Originally posted by Alpha Arietis

I'm sure that you're aware that Jesus was quoting from Isaiah 61 and that he stopped mid-sentence, leaving off "and the day of vengeance of our God", clearly because that "day" pertains to his second advent.

Not clear at all. Luke 21:20-22 say the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70 was "the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written." Time of punishment; day of vengeance. Now that is clear to me. But, of course, you have Jerusalem surrounded by armies being fulfilled in our time, right? Because the destruction of the city 40 years after Jesus spoke certainly can't be what Jesus was talking about.

reply to post by Alpha Arietis


That has nothing to do with the curse God put on the Earth in Genesis. Besides, all of that was fulfilled by Christ. It's not my fault you're determined to see all of this as still in our future.

By the way: good job nonchalantly dismissing the Scripture I provided with single sentence arguments of your own making. Are you sure you're defending God's Word?

Originally posted by CLPrime

Got any Scripture that says the curse will be lifted at the return of Christ?

Revelations 22:3 "No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him."

Originally posted by CLPrime
It's not my fault you're determined to see all of this as still in our future.

And it's not my fault you're determined to see all of this as already in our past.

Nothing personal, but I find Preterist views to be the epitome of scriptural blindness, to put it kindly. And I'm not here to have yet another in a long line of Preterist debates. I'm frankly weary of beating my head against a brick wall in these discussions. That is, I'm not going to spend time trying to change your mind, as I know my views won't be changed either. We're both aware of the general opposing points we could raise. Like I said before, we're at an impasse on the subject.

The difference between us, is that I've heard your perspective before, from many other Preterists like yourself. I've had this same debate countless times, brought up the relevant scripture, etc. It's always a laborious task, and unyielding minds make it nigh impossible to discuss.

I doubt, however, that you've ever heard the facts I've presented in this thread, since they're to be found nowhere else on the web, or in any books. Have you considered what I've presented? Or watched the videos I posted? You haven't engaged them, I suspect because your mind is already made up. Which is fine. Instead you demand that I defend the general futuristic context, which I'm really not interested in doing. It's kind of a distraction.

Thus the impasse I speak of.

Like I said, it's nothing personal, I'm sure you're a cool guy, but I just can't give any respect to the Preterist viewpoint.

I'm here to offer my perspective concerning the OP, present the facts of the matter and discuss those if you or anyone else is interested in doing so.

too point out that what was, is, and yet is to come, as spoken in the word, here is an article reflecting the rivers Euphrates and tigress www.foxnews.com... from the link

As in Iraq, where the Euphrates and the Tigris rivers are drying up, water resources also are strapped elsewhere across the Middle East.

now this is just recent, back in Jan 2011 the same thing happened , when the snakes that is serpents became a plague in that region.
does prophesy get fulfilled to day? do you have to ask? all one needs to do is read the news.

I'm the OP who started this thread.

Even though I don't agree with CLPrime, I appreciate the fact that he's putting out his theories in regards to "the abomination that causes desolations." That's what this thread is about.

The more specific topic: is there reason to believe the "abomination that causes desolations" could happen this spring?

I think you all should take time to consider Jeremiah's prophecy of 70 years, which led Daniel to ponder on the subject of Israel's guilt. This culminated in Daniel's prophecy of 70 "sevens".

But back to Jeremiah. He prophecied that Israel would serve Babylon for 70 years, in return for the 70 Shmitas in which the kings and nobles of Judea did not free their slaves. Every 7th year, the Jews were supposed to free their endentured slaves, which they didn't do. So they were enslaved by Babylon.

Judea was forced into servitude as a vassal state by Nebuchadnezzar in 605 BC. In 538 BC, Babylon was overthrown by the Medes, and the first wave of Jews were set free. 70 years were not fulfilled. The Jews only served Babylon for 66 1/2 years. Coincidentally, 3 1/2 years of that prophecy have not yet been fulfilled. Equally coincidental, is the fact that Revelation tells us that Babylon will rule over the kings of the earth during the time of the apocalpse. So we can expect Babylon to enslave Israel once again, beginning with the abomination.

If you study Jeremiah 25-51, you will learn what happens at the end of the 70 years.

1) Babylon will be destroyed, never to be inhabited again. (This concurs with Isaiah 13 and Revelation 14-18)
2) Jerusalem will become a city of holiness, never to be defiled again.
3) the cup of God's wrath will be poured out on all the nations, because all nations are drunk with the wine of Babylon's fornications
4) The Lord will come and enter into a new covenant relation with the people of Israel.

I would argue that these four points have yet to be fulfilled and won't be fuflilled until the physical return of Christ.

1) Babylon has been reinhabited. Under the regime of Saddam Hussein, the city was rededicated in 1989.

2) Since the time of Jeremiah, Jerusalem has been defiled and overrun several times. Once by Antiochus, once by the Romans, once by the Turks. It's going to be trampled down once again by Babylon, which is in Iraq. The Arab League just held a summit in Iraq last week. Meanwhile, 84 nations participated in demonstrations calling for Jerusalem to be taken back from the Jews. Isaiah 1 tells us that Jerusalem will become as Sodom and Gomorrah in the last days, and this is another reason why judgment will once again come to Jerusalem. Revelation describes Jerusalem in the last days symbolically as "Sodom and Egypt". I would argue that Jerusalem will become a city of holiness, never to be defiled again. ONLY when her Messiah comes and reigns there.

3) the cup of God's wrath was not poured out on all the nations in 535 BC or in 70 AD. Yet when you read Revelation, you see global judgments falling on all the nations. The kings of the earth run for their shelters because the day of the Lord's wrath has come. Did all the kings of the earth run for shelter in 70 AD?

4) Paul tells us that blindness has come upon Israel until the time of the Gentiles is fulfilled. Jesus, in Luke 21, said the punishment against Jerusalem, beginning with the abomination, would last until the time of the Gentiles is fulfilled. Israel still refuses to acknowledge Yeshua as Messiah, for the most part. It's only when he returns that "all of Israel will be saved." As Zechariah and Revelation tell us, those who pierced him will SEE HIM and they will mourn. It will take the PHYSICAL return of Christ to turn Israel to repentance. Try reading Zechariah 12-14. You'll see that when Jesus returns, he will open up a fountain of atonement for Israel.

This is why the return of Christ will most likely coincide with the feast of atonement, Yom Kippur, in the fall season. Which is why the abomination is most likely to occur in the springtime, which is 42 month before.

But is there good reason to believe the abomination will happen THIS spring? That's the real question of this thread.

Originally posted by Alpha Arietis

The difference between us, is that I've heard your perspective before, from many other Preterists like yourself. I've had this same debate countless times, brought up the relevant scripture, etc. It's always a laborious task, and unyielding minds make it nigh impossible to discuss.

I doubt, however, that you've ever heard the facts I've presented in this thread, since they're to be found nowhere else on the web, or in any books. Have you considered what I've presented? Or watched the videos I posted? You haven't engaged them, I suspect because your mind is already made up.

That's just another of our similarities. You think your view is so different? It's not. It's just more of the same. In fact, in the time I was on your side, I jumped between so many End Times theories, including a few similar to both yours and the OP's. I thought the Pope was the Antichrist. I thought Hitler had been the Antichrist. I thought Saddam Hussein was the Antichrist. I thought Bashar al-Assad would be the Antichrist. I even went by the Bible Codes for a while...and Our Lady of Fatima. My last theory was that Javier Solana, Sec.-Gen. of the EU, was the Antichrist and that the Western European Union was the 10 kings. There was even a way, in Hebrew Gematria, to make his name add up to 666. I had timelines, just like you guys. I had modern historical context, just like you guys. And then Solana retired. And that's when I finally stopped listening to everyone else, and I sat down with every prophecy in the Bible and rethought it all. That's when I realized that the Olivet Discourse more naturally fits the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70. That's when I realized, in fact, that the fulfillment of every "last days" prophecy between Genesis and John could be placed between 4 BC and AD 70. I also attempted to fit Revelation to the destruction of Jerusalem, but it doesn't work. What Revelation does fit, however, is the context of the New Testament - the reign, oppression, and ultimate end of the Roman Empire.

Context and consistency.
Context and consistency.
Context and consistency.
Context and consistency.

They're important.

reply to post by Alpha Arietis


(Forgot to reply to this.)
Fair enough. And it's a little iffy whether that occurred at the fall of Rome or if it is still to occur after the defeat of Satan following his final rebellion (which, as I said, appears to be occurring as we speak). Though, I will give you this to consider:

Inside the new Jerusalem are who? In Revelation 22:14, Jesus says, "Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city." Inside the city are those who wash their robes (those made pure by the blood of Christ).
Outside the new Jerusalem are who? In Revelation 22:15, Jesus says, "Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood." Outside the city are the sinful - the wicked.

Now, may I ask... what are the wicked still doing outside the city if sin has been done away with and all wickedness has been destroyed? Especially considering the fact that we have just seen the unrighteous get thrown into the lake of fire - the second death - at the end of Revelation 20.

reply to post by CLPrime

Hey CLP

The’ Apocalypse of Yohanon the Levite’, whoever he was (aka ‘The Book of Revelation’) is a literary mess and only reflected in a few late Greek Codices (Codex Sinaiticus – c. AD 360, Codex Alexandrinus c. AD 340 & Codex Ephraemi Palimpsest c. AD 330) and a few fragmentary Papyri (p47 contains snatchets from the mangled Greek of Rev. 9:10-11:3; 11:5-16:15; 16:17-17:2.) p98 contains pieces of a version of Rev. 1:13-2:1) p66 (12 fragments of ANOTHER version of the book), p115 which has some pieces of another (mangled but early) MSS copy of Rev. 2:1-3, 13-15, 27-29; 3:10-12; 5:8-9; 6:5-6; 8:3-8, 11-13; 9:1-5, 7-16, 18-21; 10:1-4, 8-11; 11:1-5, 8-15, 18-19; 12:1-5, 8-10, 12-17; 13:1-3, 6-16, 18; 14:1-3, 5-7, 10-11, 14-15, 18-20; 15:1, 4-7)

In other words, we do NOT have a complete text in Greek in front of us that is reliably for this book, and so it is not surprising that there are ‘internal contradictions’ between one version of its mangled Greek and another. Moreover, the text was orginally an Aramaic (and possibly Hebrew) poem, not originally written in Greek – which explains why there are so many ‘Greek Grammatical Howlers’ in all the fragments of the book that have come down to us….

The Author who calls himself Yohanon (probably not a ‘disciple’ or an ‘apostle’ since the name ‘Iesous’ only occurs here and there in the MSS & is not part of the original ur- text) was likely a Messianically minded ‘Warrior Levite’ – he uses the language of Zionist Juihad throughout the book (‘holy war’) including Warrior Hymns (e.g. Sing unto YHWH a NEW SONG – all of which are anti-Gentile, warrior extermination hymns) – it could well be that he was even one of the Dead Sea Scroll Qumran successionist priestly types (they hid their scrolls in Caves 1-11 in June of 68 CE around the time of ‘Yohanon’s writing'.

Note how the author uses so many Midrashic Rabinnic preFirst Jewish-War (66-72) ‘end of days’ Levetical Priestly Technical/sacrificial-temple-related terms that only a 2nd Temple cohen (priest) could know -but be all that as it may – we see the End of Days vision of this anti Gentile anti Goyim Zionist End of Days Jihadist depicting a New Jerusalem with all of the conquored Goyim being dragged into the now ‘holy’ city where there is a Tree of Life in its center, whose leaves ‘are meant for the healing of the war wounds of all the captured goyim among the nations’

Here is a snatchet of the poem as it is re-translated into Aramaic Poetry – then into English

And lo, the Goyim who survived the Plagues were all walking
Even into the Centre of the Holy City by its own Light
And behold, I saw all the Kings of the Gentiles :
And lo ! they were all pouring their Wealth into her Gates
Even the Rulers of the Goyim
And all they with them who were defeated in Battle.
And, behold, they were all bringing War-Booty
And were presenting their Tributes to the Righteous
And offering Gifts to the Elect Ones of Yisro’el !
Nor were the Gates of the City ever shut by [Night],
for ‘Days & Nights’ were no longer found there
and YHWH himself was the light in the center of her.

And lo, I could see no Defiling Idol of the Goyim within its Gates
Nor also any Committers of Adultery were to be seen within,
Nor any Bearers of False Witness could enter therein :
But only the Righteous ones were ever allowed entry there
Even those whose Names were engraved in the Sefer Chayyim (‘book of the living’)
Even before the Creation of the World.
And behold, one of the Watchers standing by me pointed with his finger
And lo, he was showing me the place of the Pure River of Life,
Which was flowing outwards from the Midst
Even from the place where the Throne of El itself sat
And behold, it was all ritually clean & pure
Even as the clearest Crystalite stone.

And lo, he showed me also the Tree of Life itself
Even in the Middle of all the many Broad Avenues therein
And behold, it bore 12 Different Fruits beautiful to look upon :
And lo, each of them was named for each of the 12 Tribes of Benei Yisro’el
Whose Leaves the Defeated Goyim were using as Medicines
Even to treat the Battle Scars they received in the War against the Holy Ones, etc etc.

(='All the Goyim will come from afar to worship before your face[s] ) we only have to take a quick look at the anti Gentile language found in Trito Isaiah chapter 60

In that Day, the Goyim (‘non Jews’ i.e. Gentiles) shall come to your light, and their kings shall see to the brightness of your dawn. The wealth on the Goyim will be brought to you, And to you the riches of the Gentiles will flow Surely the islands look to me; in the lead are the ships of Tarshish, bringing your sons from afar, with their silver and gold, Even to the honor of YHWH your clan god, the Holy One of Israel,