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Originally posted by DeadSeraph
But terrible things happen to good Christian people every day. They can be victims of violence, random tragedy, disease, etc. How can we reconcile these things with Christ already establishing his reign on earth? This, to me, is the greatest thing keeping me from taking your ideas beyond speculation. I find it difficult to reconcile the idea of Christs 1000 year reign on earth with what we see in the world today. Even within the church, although we see no violence, etc, that doesn't mean that these things aren't visited on the church from outside forces.
I also have a tendency (probably due to how I was taught to interpret scripture) to associate the word "reign" as we read it in revelations, as being a global kingdom of peace, led by Christ personally after the second coming. I certainly do not see that in the world today.
I'm curious: does your belief system allow for other schools of thought within Christianity? For instance, do Preterists believe that the rest of us follow false doctrine, and by extension will not be saved, or is faith in the resurrected Christ sufficient?
Originally posted by Hydroman
The biblical prophecies are so vague that you can interpret them to mean so many different things, as is evident in this tiny thread. There are many, many more ideas out there than what is even shown here.
Originally posted by CLPrime
Originally posted by hab22
Well, time will soon tell if my theory is correct about the abomination being set up this spring. When I refer to the abomination being set up on a wing of the temple, I do not mean so in the metaphorical sense, but in the literal sense, that it will be set up "in the extreme part" (as you well described it) of the temple, which is where I believe the Dome of the Rock is located. Revelation speaks of the "Court of the Gentiles" being given over to the forces of antichrist for 42 months.
Revelation never once mentions an antichrist.
II Thes. speaks of the antichrist setting himself up "in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God." This concurs with Isaiah 14, where the antichrist is called "king of Babylon" and "the Assyrian" who exalts himself above the throne of God.
2 Thess. never mentions an antichrist either. You guys take a couple statements about "antichrists" in John's letters and apply it to everything and everyone you can, but you have absolutely no Scriptural support for this.
And now you're doing it with the "king of Babylon" and "the Assyrian." What makes you think that God wasn't actually speaking of the king of Babylon and about an actual Assyrian? Why does everything have to apply to some mythical future Antichrist?
Thessalonians speaks of the man of lawlessness. This was the Roman Emperor - not a single man, but many men who set themselves up in God's temple and declared themselves gods.
The antichrist didn't appear in 70 AD to exalt himself in the temple, nor did the Messiah reappear to put down the rule of Satan over the world.
No Scripture ever demands for some singular Antichrist to appear with the abomination of desolation. The spirit of antichrist was everywhere, even well before AD 70. It culminated once in Nero, just before the destruction of Jerusalem, and again in Domitian not long after.
Luke, however, affirms that the abomination of desolation was "set up" in AD 70, when Jerusalem was surrounded by armies and the Christians of the city fled, just as Jesus had told them to do. Why do we want this to happen a second time?edit on 30-3-2012 by CLPrime because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by hab22
I've been at work all day, and only now getting back to this thread I started. I really wasn't expecting such a massive challenge from the pretorist POV that CLPrime has been injecting into this thread which is fine.
Originally posted by CLPrime
Originally posted by hab22
I've been at work all day, and only now getting back to this thread I started. I really wasn't expecting such a massive challenge from the pretorist POV that CLPrime has been injecting into this thread which is fine.
Such a massive challenge, from little ol' me The challenge doesn't actually come from me, it comes from Scripture. I merely reports the news.
As for the rest of your post. I think I'll just let your view play out. If it happens, you were right... if it doesn't, you were wrong. Sometimes, the best argument is an argument from false prediction. In fact, that's how Scripture itself says to judge a prophet:
"If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the Lord does not take place or come true, that is a message the Lord has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him" (Deuteronomy 18:22).
Originally posted by OneNationUnder
The Abomination of Desolation is set up inside of the 3rd Temple, which hasn't been built yet. The Anti-Christ declares himself God inside the 3rd Temple, and sets up the Abomination of Desolation within it.
Originally posted by hab22
The precursor to this event is the March 30th "March to Jerusalem". This event occurs tomorrow and has the makings to become a terribly violent protest that will enrage the Arab world and put Israel on the defensive.
Read Luke 21, Matthew 24, Daniel 8 and Daniel 11. These verses all give details of what's about to occur.
Another aspect to look at is the Jubilee calender. There is reason to believe that September 2015 lines up with the great Jubilee that invites Christ, the Prince of Peace, to regain ownership of planet Earth from the evil warlord, Satan.
But 42 months of Great Tribulation must occur first. Scale back 42 months from September 2015 and you arrive at Passover 2012, less than two weeks away. This is one reason why I believe the March 30th March on Jerusalem will preempt a war engulfing many nations, a war that makes WWII look like a skirmish.
There is much to explain concerning this "theory". Throw out your best questions and insults. I will try to answer them all.
HAB22
Originally posted by CLPrime
Originally posted by DeadSeraph
But terrible things happen to good Christian people every day. They can be victims of violence, random tragedy, disease, etc. How can we reconcile these things with Christ already establishing his reign on earth? This, to me, is the greatest thing keeping me from taking your ideas beyond speculation. I find it difficult to reconcile the idea of Christs 1000 year reign on earth with what we see in the world today. Even within the church, although we see no violence, etc, that doesn't mean that these things aren't visited on the church from outside forces.
But, when we think spiritual, whatever physical that happens to us doesn't matter. We can be hated, beaten, persecuted, even killed, and as long as we give glory to Christ through all these things, we have successfully reigned with him. This has been the case since the Day of Pentecost when the Church was born.
I also have a tendency (probably due to how I was taught to interpret scripture) to associate the word "reign" as we read it in revelations, as being a global kingdom of peace, led by Christ personally after the second coming. I certainly do not see that in the world today.
That is definitely a result of how you've been taught. I know, I was taught the same thing, and, for many years, I believed it. Fortunately, issues with it continued to bug me right up until the day I took all of prophecy together, sat down with it, and determined to figure it out. All of this while I was supposed to be going to class at university. But, regardless, the journey since then has been very productive. I continually refresh my understanding by going back to all of Scripture the same way, because I may see something the hundredth time that I missed all ninety-nine times before. But, I'm trying.
Now...we find that Christ's Church is a global kingdom. Just because all 7 billion people aren't a part of it, that doesn't make it any less global. And, as I said, our reign is proclaimed to be spiritual: "For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit" (Romans 14:17); and "'My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place'" (John 18:36).
I'm curious: does your belief system allow for other schools of thought within Christianity? For instance, do Preterists believe that the rest of us follow false doctrine, and by extension will not be saved, or is faith in the resurrected Christ sufficient?
I try not to label myself, so I can't speak for the Preterists. But it's a matter of truth vs deception. It doesn't matter if I'm willing to make room for other schools of thought or not. There is only one truth, and what we have to consider is if God will be making room for other schools of thought. Did Jesus pull any punches when speaking to the blind teachers of the generation he ministered among?
And, then, this is possibly a separate issue from salvation. Though, I find that most people who follow false interpretations of prophecy also have false interpretations of salvation. Honestly, this isn't really all that surprising.edit on 30-3-2012 by CLPrime because: (no reason given)