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Why there's good reason to believe the "Abomination that Causes Desolations" will happen this spr

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posted on Mar, 30 2012 @ 02:51 PM
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Isaac Newton interpreted Daniel as predicting a second restoration of Jerusalem to the Jews from which time there would be one Jubilee cycle of 49 prophetic years until the second advent of Messiah the Prince. So if June 7, 1967 is Newton's predicted "second restoration of Jerusalem" then we are right at the door of the great tribulation.

According to my calculations the second advent will occur on Tishri 10; Yom Kippur: the year 2015 is off the charts in likelihoods. This will be preceded by a fake second advent produced by Satan and his angels appearing as Christ and His saints: this will occur on Tevet 10: 2012 is off the charts likely here.

This means that April 11, 2012 would begin the 1260-day great tribulation period. Whether this will begin with a bang, I do not know- but this is 1260 days prior to the Yom Kippur target of 2015.

Now here is something weird to go with this thread topic:

www.vatican.va...

Look at the link and notice: there is nothing after Passover/Easter.

THERE IS NOTHING AFTER EASTER!

Fascinating.




posted on Mar, 30 2012 @ 02:51 PM
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Originally posted by SavedOne

I'm curious if, since you apparently believe all these prophecies were already fulfilled, you also believe we're currently living in the 1000 year reign of peace with Christ as our leader? It sounds like (and please forgive me if I'm misunderstanding) you have Preterist leanings and my big issue with the Preterist view is that most Preterists believe we are already living in the 1000 year reign and all I can say is if we are then Christ is not the leader we all thought he was cracked up to be.


Christ is living and reigning as we speak; and, I might add, he is doing a very good job of it. We see, for example, in Hebrews 8:1, Revelation 3:21, and 1 Peter 3:21b-22 that Christ now sits on his throne at the right hand of God, and, if he sits on his throne, then he reigns. Jesus reigns over the Kingdom, because all things have been put under his feet (1 Corinthians 15:27). The only thing new that we see in Revelation 20 is the resurrection of those who had been killed for their testimony (the sames ones seen under the altar in Revelation 6:9-11), and of those who had not worshipped the beast (the imperial authority of Rome). These live and reign with Christ for "a thousand years." And there's the problem. If, instead of thinking that this was some future physical kingdom on Earth (which is never stated in Revelation 20), we actually recognized that we are now living and reigning with Christ, then the Church of Christ might be more extensive and authoritative than it is. But, with the amount of deception going around, the Church of Christ has been reduced to a remnant (as God's followers always are), while the majority of nominal Christendom goes on believing lies and waiting for a Kingdom that's already here.

Jesus is reigning just fine. The problem lies with us.



posted on Mar, 30 2012 @ 02:55 PM
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reply to post by lupodigubbio

Hi Lupodigubbio

R.. Yehoshua bar Yosef (the Galilean Nazir) who lived c. BCE 12 to Pesach 36 CE (Gr. "Iesous') lived 30 years or so before the 1st Failed Jewish War against Rome (lasted from c. 66 - 72CE) which began on the 70th anniversary of the death of Herod the Great (d. 4 BCE).

In 36 CE, when he was arrested for arming his disciples with swords 'during the Rebellion' (see 'Mark' whoever he was, chapter 15:1-5) there was ANOTHER anniversary, that of the 200th anniversary of the Macabbean Revolt (c. 163 BCE) when Judaea was 'liberated' from the tyranny of the Seleucids under Epiphanes (Antiochus IV) who had desecrated the Temple of YHWH and installed an ithyphallic statue of Zeus-Priapus in the Qadosh Qadoshim (holy of holies) before stripping away the gold plates.

The Aramaic sections of Daniel (and the final redaction to the Hebrew sections too) were written c. 163 BCE pseudipigraphically ('written under a false [name]') during the Jewish Revolt against Rome - the text copies speak of the 'abomination which causes Desolation' in reference to Antiochus IV desecration of the Temple.

After 100 years of semi-Independence (c. 163 BCE to 63 BC), the Roman general Pompey invaded Jerusalem under the ruse that he was clearing out the Jewish Pirates operating out of Tarsus in Cilicia, whose conclave was in 'the holy city...' - and did much of the same thing when he invaded the Temple Precincts (the temple held hundreds of pounds of foreign gold and silver as a safe haven for Asia Minor bankers and kings) - and when he got to the Qadosh Qadoshim he allegedly screamed, Where's the Gold Statue of YHWH? But the golden cube was empty...

So 'the armed Insurrection' mentioned in the 2nd canonical Greek gospel ('according to Mark' whoever he was) at the beginning of chapter 15 ALSO happened on an anniversary - this time, the 100th anniversary of the Invasion of Pompey into Palestine in 63 BCE - and 'the abomination of desolation' again was used as a slogan for foreign goyim invaders.

Don't forget Palestine ('eretz yisro'el') was invaded several times, first by Egypt (Shishonq took 30 cities away from Sholomon-Jedediah in the Galilee), then Syria (Aram) took several towns in the north away c. 890-860 BCE

Then Assyria invaded the northern tribelets ('Yisro'el) c. 722-701 BCE deporting its priests and metalworkers,

Then Babylon invaded in BCE 587 deporting the southern priests and metal workers (many had run south in 722 bCE and married into the southern part known as 'Yehudah' meaning 'grand-amphyctiony' (yad = hand, yahad = community or tribelet, and yehudah = joining up of tribelets into a single mega Tribe);

Then the Persians invaded Babylon and occupied Judaea for 200 years (531 -331 BCE) introducing Persian Zoroastrian ideas such as Heaven-Hell, Light-Dark, Death-Resurrection, YHWH-Shaitan, Righteous-Wicked dualism: well, 200 years is a long time to absorb new ideas !

Then Greece invaded Palestine in 331 BCE under Alexander the Great (using his general Seleucios as the front guard);

Then FINALLY the Romans (BCE 63) who destroyed Palestine in 70 CE along with the 2nd Temple of YHWH at Jerusalem.

Whether or not the 'The Sacriledge which causes desolation' (Heb. Siqqus Mison'm) refers to some future event is up to one's own imagination, I suppose : clearly the original wording refers to Antiochus IV (c. 165 BCE)

Heb. Dan. 9:27

'And he will cut a firm Covenant with the Many for 1 week: and in mid-week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to stop; and upon the wing of the Temple, the Abominations [shall come] one that makes desolate; and even to the very End, and [prophetically] determine shall [wrath] be poured out upon the Desolate Ones."

Heb. Daniel 11:31 "And forces shall stand on his part, and shall profane the Heckhal (shrine) which is the Fortress, and shall take away the continual [burnt-offering], and they shall set up the Abomination that makes desolate."

Heb. Daniel 12:11 "And from the time that the continual [burnt-offering] shall be taken away, and the Abomination that makes Desolate is erected - there shall be 1,290 days."

It seems that R. Yehoshua was re-interpreting Daniel's Abomination citations in terms of his own days 'during the Insurrection....' and well, look how THAT turned out !!



posted on Mar, 30 2012 @ 03:10 PM
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Originally posted by CLPrime

Originally posted by SavedOne

I'm curious if, since you apparently believe all these prophecies were already fulfilled, you also believe we're currently living in the 1000 year reign of peace with Christ as our leader? It sounds like (and please forgive me if I'm misunderstanding) you have Preterist leanings and my big issue with the Preterist view is that most Preterists believe we are already living in the 1000 year reign and all I can say is if we are then Christ is not the leader we all thought he was cracked up to be.


Christ is living and reigning as we speak; and, I might add, he is doing a very good job of it. We see, for example, in Hebrews 8:1, Revelation 3:21, and 1 Peter 3:21b-22 that Christ now sits on his throne at the right hand of God, and, if he sits on his throne, then he reigns. Jesus reigns over the Kingdom, because all things have been put under his feet (1 Corinthians 15:27). The only thing new that we see in Revelation 20 is the resurrection of those who had been killed for their testimony (the sames ones seen under the altar in Revelation 6:9-11), and of those who had not worshipped the beast (the imperial authority of Rome). These live and reign with Christ for "a thousand years." And there's the problem. If, instead of thinking that this was some future physical kingdom on Earth (which is never stated in Revelation 20), we actually recognized that we are now living and reigning with Christ, then the Church of Christ might be more extensive and authoritative than it is. But, with the amount of deception going around, the Church of Christ has been reduced to a remnant (as God's followers always are), while the majority of nominal Christendom goes on believing lies and waiting for a Kingdom that's already here.

Jesus is reigning just fine. The problem lies with us.


CLPrime, I often enjoy reading your posts and your interpretations. I'm not entirely convinced as of yet, but you make some very strong points.

I was wondering if you could correlate your beliefs for me. If what you say is true, than the 7 seals of revelation have all been broken already. Could you briefly describe which events have happened in history that you feel relate to the 7 seals, and why?



posted on Mar, 30 2012 @ 03:16 PM
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reply to post by DeadSeraph
 


I can do better than that. I can give you an overview of how I understand the fulfillment of the entire book of Revelation.
First, though, to summarize:

The seals parallel the Olivet Discourse, going from the Jewish rebellion to the destruction of Jerusalem.
The trumpets describe what we call the Crisis of the Third Century, which was a herald of the end.
The vials describe the ultimate end of Roman authority.

And, now, the overview, in handy table form:
(the image, of course, scrolls to the right)



If you want me to go into more detail about any of this, I would be more than happy to.
edit on 30-3-2012 by CLPrime because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 30 2012 @ 03:26 PM
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reply to post by hab22
 


Hey hab22,

Do you remember two weeks before our President's election in 2008 him saying that He would not only change America but the world. Then two weeks later all of America (relatively speaking) signed that very agreement with him making this very moment 3 1/2 years into that promise.

Now, according to recent executive orders the military owns America's water as well as other gov't agencies owning the rest of our resources?

That being said, I didn't read all 10 pages of information on here so forgive me but I wanted to run something by you that one of my study partners mentioned to me about KJV Daniel 9:27:" And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

What the guy asked me was how I would feel if in the next two weeks, passover coming up and all
, a major disaster, or something of the such happened that elicited martial law effectively outlawing the assembling of ourselves together?....Causing the Christian sacrifice and oblation to cease until the consummation of the 3/12 years upon those Christians that are left and desolate be complete?

Harpazzo soon?


What do you think?


edit on 30-3-2012 by HeFrippedMeOff because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 30 2012 @ 03:54 PM
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Originally posted by CLPrime
reply to post by DeadSeraph
 


I can do better than that. I can give you an overview of how I understand the fulfillment of the entire book of Revelation.
First, though, to summarize:

The seals parallel the Olivet Discourse, going from the Jewish rebellion to the destruction of Jerusalem.
The trumpets describe what we call the Crisis of the Third Century, which was a herald of the end.
The vials describe the ultimate end of Roman authority.

And, now, the overview, in handy table form:
(the image, of course, scrolls to the right)



If you want me to go into more detail about any of this, I would be more than happy to.
edit on 30-3-2012 by CLPrime because: (no reason given)


Thank you for your reply.

Could you elaborate on this verse specifically, and how it already happened within the framework of the fall of the roman empire?

Revelation 8:8-9
King James Version (KJV)
8And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;

9And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.
edit on 30-3-2012 by DeadSeraph because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 30 2012 @ 04:05 PM
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reply to post by DeadSeraph
 


The mountain represents the Roman Empire (just as the Kingdom of Heaven is called God's holy mountain).
The mountain being on fire represents the Empire being in chaos (specifically, being subject to judgement).
The sea represents peoples, multitudes, nations, and languages (secular masses; Revelation 17:15).
The blood, in vivid apocalyptic style, represents the result of this judgement - the futility of hiding within the vain authority of the world here embodied by the Roman Empire.
The ships, being a symbol of prosperity and trade, loosely represent the devaluing of Roman society.

What we need to keep in mind when interpreting these judgements is not necessarily the direct application of each individual aspect of each seal, trumpet, and vial. Rather, we need to look at the intended mood. In this case, the mood is demonstrating judgement against the sea (the Roman people).

I also want to add that, the mood of each word is what I tried very hard to faithfully get across when I did my own translation of the book of Revelation. John was writing to 7 churches in Asia Minor of the time, and it's vital for us to get the same feeling reading the book as they did.
edit on 30-3-2012 by CLPrime because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 30 2012 @ 04:12 PM
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Originally posted by CLPrime
reply to post by DeadSeraph
 


The mountain represents the Roman Empire (just as the Kingdom of Heaven is called God's holy mountain).
The mountain being on fire represents the Empire being in chaos (specifically, being subject to judgement).
The sea represents peoples, multitudes, nations, and languages (secular masses; Revelation 17:15).
The blood, in vivid apocalyptic style, represents the result of this judgement - the futility of hiding within the vain authority of the world here embodied by the Roman Empire.
The ships, being a symbol of prosperity and trade, loosely represent the devaluing of Roman society.

What we need to keep in mind when interpreting these judgements is not necessarily the direct application of each individual aspect of each seal, trumpet, and vial. Rather, we need to look at the intended mood. In this case, the mood is demonstrating judgement against the sea (the Roman people).
edit on 30-3-2012 by CLPrime because: (no reason given)


But we have some very specific language used here. For instance, what of the 1/3rd of the sea turning to blood, or 1/3rd of all living things within the sea "dying"? We also have the implication that these events occur due to the flaming mountain being thrown into or impacting the sea.

It seems that your interpretation is strikingly literal in some places, and bordering on personal interpretation in others. This isn't to say that I have made up my mind about your views one way or the other (as I find them very interesting), but I do feel like clarification is needed.
edit on 30-3-2012 by DeadSeraph because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 30 2012 @ 04:13 PM
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reply to post by DeadSeraph
 


Maybe I can help clear that up if you can give me some examples of where I'm being literal? There are definitely times for literal, and there are also times for symbolic...the context decides which it is.



posted on Mar, 30 2012 @ 04:17 PM
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Because the Obamanation is among us,



posted on Mar, 30 2012 @ 04:19 PM
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- i ve never seen a chart like that CLP

.. i take it from your vieuw, that you consider everything done already..?
nothing could be further from the truth

...the chart s showing ' roman ' things... which are already 1500 years done with -
they dont pertain to right now -
and
neither was the sequence in that chart applyable to 2000 years ago.

..we are somewhere close to the 1 st seal -
and 'rome ' has no play in it all;
because ' rome ' was merely the foreshadowing ( 2000 y ago) from the entire, present, Babylonian prison.

Rome dies , soon,
because the resurrected Atlantis will 'hate her '

All of revelation, is about the resurrection of atlantis,
and the 2000 y false religion systems, 'babylon', will be declared a hoax by the new atlantis
( remember how pr. bluebeam will " find atrefacts to "proove " that religions - but especially christianity - was a hoax " )

Preterest vieuw is most dangerous... it puts a soul on the wrong track -
the soul will mistake 'the coming angel of light ' with the ( after that) appearing Christ.

Yes - in your other post you said 'He IS ruling already "
that is true:
but ruling as in " according to heavenly Law "
not "de facto " yet.

bless



posted on Mar, 30 2012 @ 04:23 PM
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Originally posted by CLPrime
reply to post by DeadSeraph
 


Maybe I can help clear that up if you can give me some examples of where I'm being literal? There are definitely times for literal, and there are also times for symbolic...the context decides which it is.


I apologize. I guess I would characterize your interpretations of Daniel and Babylon, as well as the Persian empire (and by extension your views on the "Anti-Christ") as being literal interpretations. I would agree that the Bible calls for various forms of interpretation, I'm just a little unsure why you feel that certain passages in Revelations require such a step away from a literal interpretation (specifically in regards to the passage I quoted above).

Could you expand on the issues I raised? (Specifically, the language used to indicate a mountain being thrown into the sea, which consequently causes 1/3rd of the sea to turn to blood, and 1/3rd of the living creatures there in to die)

Thanks for your time



posted on Mar, 30 2012 @ 04:27 PM
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..all of Daniel 11 , about ' the king of the north ', is ' the rcc '
- because it is the vatican, who has ánd the largest share as 'western church ' in 2000 y history;
but she alse posesses the ownership papers of britain - and therefore from the US

..you ll find through out Dan 11, how he ( = the RcathChurch ) organized the crusades... the inquisition ( 'his armed forces')... the invading of the jewel land ( '48 )... - untill the moment he will ' die and no one will help him ' , that is, the West will Fall
...how ? - by treason from inside

..and from *that* moment, Revelation starts with its seals and the rest



posted on Mar, 30 2012 @ 04:35 PM
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- besides;
all those false, selproclaimed ' prophets and teachers ' in mainstream evangelical media,
they fed those awful one-liners to the sheep,
like ' the abomination etc is a statue in a new temple "

bogus

instead,
"..becáuse of the many abominations of earths inhabitants, the earth will be desolate "

'desolate' = ' without God

and desolate means, an incredible spiritual darkness - an opening up of that dimension ( 2nd heaven)
by what people will see , feel and taste demonic evil (beings)

= the closing of the Matrix

..believe me: i know that Darkness.. and its something you wouldnt wish even to your present human enemy



posted on Mar, 30 2012 @ 04:41 PM
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Originally posted by DeadSeraph

I apologize.


No need to apologize. I love this sort of discussion.



I guess I would characterize your interpretations of Daniel and Babylon, as well as the Persian empire (and by extension your views on the "Anti-Christ") as being literal interpretations.


In the case of the book of Daniel, most interpretations are given explicitly within the book itself. Though, Daniel's visions were often quite symbolic (the four animals, for example, which represented the kingdoms of Babylon, Medo-Persia, Macedonia, and Rome).
Regardless of literal vs symbolic, Old Testament prophecy can be divided into two categories: immediate and messianic. Prophecies against specific nations (such as Babylon) are literal and immediate. Prophecies that aren't contextually specific are typically messianic - and these are often directly reference by New Testament authors. In fact, one of the most useful things I've ever done is compile a list of Old Testament references in the New Testament. It reveals just how much of the OT the Holy Spirit-inspired NT authors believed was fulfilled by the first coming of Christ. Spoiler alert: it's a lot of it (about a quarter of the minor prophets alone are referenced by NT authors as having been fulfilled by the first coming of Christ).



I would agree that the Bible calls for various forms of interpretation, I'm just a little unsure why you feel that certain passages in Revelations require such a step away from a literal interpretation (specifically in regards to the passage I quoted above).


Revelation is a beautiful example of Jewish apocalyptic literature using vivid images to get a particular point and/or mood across. It has two narratives: first, the dialogue between John and Jesus/the angels (this always seems to be literal in nature); second, the vision John sees (this is always symbolic, as we are told at the outset of the revelation: "A revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what is necessary to occur in a short time, and, signified, he has sent through his messenger to his servant John, who testified of God’s word and the testimony of Jesus Christ, as much as he saw").



Could you expand on the issues I raised? (Specifically, the language used to indicate a mountain being thrown into the sea, which consequently causes 1/3rd of the sea to turn to blood, and 1/3rd of the living creatures there in to die)


The burn mountain thrown into the sea is, again, an attempt to illicit a particular mood in the reading. The Roman Empire was in chaos, and this chaos literally struck each and every citizen of the empire. In that way, the empire was thrown into the masses. We often say that we jump into a situation - well, in this case, the empire in chaos was jumping into a sea of unprepared people.
You could also say that this imagery is used because the empire in chaos was used to punish the people. In this way, also, the empire was thrown into the people.

The 1/3 part is actually just representative of a part, in general. It leaves the impression that the number of those who survive is greater than the number of those who don't. Even though this judgement seriously affects Roman society, it is far from being a fatal hit (which comes later, with the vials and the fall of Babylon the great).



Thanks for your time


No, thank you for yours. People rarely stick around past the first time I say "already fulfilled."



posted on Mar, 30 2012 @ 04:58 PM
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reply to post by CLPrime
 


Thanks again! It's rare that someone presents such a radically different view of scripture to what I've been taught that doesn't immediately set off alarm bells for me. You've given me a lot to think about (and read about) and I appreciate your insight. I'm still on the fence about a lot of this but any time spent meditating on such things is time well spent, imo.

Assuming the school of thought you subscribe to is correct, could you discuss how you feel we are living in the 1000 year reign of Christ when we see so much blood shed and misery around us? Wars, disease, etc. I often feel like all I want to do is go "home" because I see so much suffering in the world and I can't comprehend how such cruelty can live inside of people. How could we be living in the 1000 years of Christ's reign if we see such terrible things in the world today? Moreover, what does this say about the potential for hell on earth when the 1000 years are over?



posted on Mar, 30 2012 @ 05:08 PM
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reply to post by DeadSeraph
 


First of all, that is a very good question. The answer lies in people's mindset. People seem to want physical perfection, and that's how they interpret Scripture. However, the New Testament reveals to us that perfection is spiritual, not physical. Now, we have to interpret Scripture in light of this.

So, when you say there's a lot of violence in the world, that's true. But, let me ask you: how much violence exists in the Church of God? And I don't mean all those groups, cults, and denominations that claim to be part of the Church. I mean those who actually faithfully defend God's Word, who have been added to the Kingdom in accordance with God's Word, and now live in accordance with the will of the Father as it has been revealed in God's Word. These are few and far between, but they exist, and they comprise the true Church of God. No violence or hatred exists among these, because they are not of the world (John 15:18, 17:14; Romans 12:2; James 1:27, 4:4; 1 John 2:15). These share in Christ's reign, and Christ reigns through them.
edit on 30-3-2012 by CLPrime because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 30 2012 @ 05:20 PM
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Originally posted by CLPrime
reply to post by DeadSeraph
 


First of all, that is a very good question. The answer lies in people's mindset. People seem to want physical perfection, and that's how they interpret Scripture. However, the New Testament reveals to us that perfection is spiritual, not physical. Now, we have to interpret Scripture in light of this.

So, when you say there's a lot of violence in the world, that's true. But, let me ask you: how much violence exists in the Church of God? And I don't mean all those groups, cults, and denominations that claim to be part of the Church. I mean those who actually faithfully defend God's Word, who have been added to the Kingdom in accordance with God's Word, and now live in accordance with the will of the Father as it has been revealed in God's Word. These are few and far between, but they exist, and they comprise the true Church of God. No violence or hatred exists among these, because they are not of the world (John 15:18, 17:14; Romans 12:2; James 1:27, 4:4; 1 John 2:15). These share in Christ's reign, and Christ reigns through them.
edit on 30-3-2012 by CLPrime because: (no reason given)


But terrible things happen to good Christian people every day. They can be victims of violence, random tragedy, disease, etc. How can we reconcile these things with Christ already establishing his reign on earth? This, to me, is the greatest thing keeping me from taking your ideas beyond speculation. I find it difficult to reconcile the idea of Christs 1000 year reign on earth with what we see in the world today. Even within the church, although we see no violence, etc, that doesn't mean that these things aren't visited on the church from outside forces.

I also have a tendency (probably due to how I was taught to interpret scripture) to associate the word "reign" as we read it in revelations, as being a global kingdom of peace, led by Christ personally after the second coming. I certainly do not see that in the world today.

I'm curious: does your belief system allow for other schools of thought within Christianity? For instance, do Preterists believe that the rest of us follow false doctrine, and by extension will not be saved, or is faith in the resurrected Christ sufficient?

I apologize if I am straying from the topic somewhat. I just find your views very interesting and I enjoy learning about your interpretations.



posted on Mar, 30 2012 @ 05:20 PM
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*double post*
edit on 30-3-2012 by DeadSeraph because: (no reason given)



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