With the particularly sincere devotion that cliff carnicom invests in his web-site--

why he is the object of scorn and derision here.

Whazza matta, you guys? Can't you stand to see somebody stand for his own truth?

I'll just keep making my own judgments about Cliff. I don't think I want to accept your "help."

Hmmm.

IceTMan says:

"dude, ANSETT has not existed for 5 years now. where have you been?"

Not in Australia, obviously LOL!

Again, I'm not that knowledgeable about airlines throughout the Pacific Rim (except for Japan, where I spent six months in 2001).

You're just going to have to do some research yourself to get to the bottom of this.

dnero6911 says:

"Your forgetting the fact they admit it, and say its for our own good,. and that they're releasing tiny pieces of metal to reflect the suns rays to prevent global warming.. "

dnero, whatever on Earth are you talking about? Who is this "they" you're talking about, and what was the stuff that they "admitted"? Do you have any links to this -- or is this some gossip you got off another conspiracy site?

And when "they" say it's for our "own good" -- where did you get that piece of news? Do you have any information at all to back up your statements?

And if "they" are releasing "tiny pieces of metal to reflect the sun's rays to prevent global warming", then why don't these "tiny pieces of metal" reflect radar, like all "tiny pieces of metal" do and the contrails show up like huge streaks on radar images of the Earth instead of just visual views?

I suggest you do a bit more research.

flukemol says:

"i read governements are involved in chemtrails programs ..."

I'm sure you have. I have read the same thing myself. Problem is that it's on the site on pseudoscientific fraud sites like Cliff Carnicon. Carnie has been proven wrong so often that he now bans anyone who evens asks questions of his arcane views.

"...across the board using barium salts to stop ozone damage of crops."

Work with me on this, flukemol: If barium salts are used to stop ozone damage, then why aren't the skies above southern Chile, where the ozone damage is ten times what it is in the US, completely covered with "chem-trails"?

The whole "barium" fraud started when Clowney and his people went out and paid to have a lab analyze some rainfall they'd collected in a bucket and found barium salts in it. When someone told Clowney in his forum that Barium is one of the biggest pollutant byproducts of coal-fired electrical generating plants, and if precipitates out in rainfall just like any other pollution, Clowney banned her from his board.

"...this is a worldwide event. a lasting effort to help a huge problem out of hand ..."

No. It is people who don't understand basic meteorology getting excited because they have a new conspiracy to play with.

Emily Cragg says:

"With the particularly sincere devotion that cliff carnicom invests in his web-site-- why he is the object of scorn and derision here."

Because he is a fraud, Emily.

[edit on 18-11-2004 by Off_The_Street]

i live near detroit and above my house is a common air route to detroit international airport and i see chem trails all the time(thankfuly i live far away enough that they usall are still flying at 30k feet so noise isnt that bad). i think they are caused by an icy engine or a engine that had a lazy mechanic last preflight check, and that it has nothing to do with any miltary or government aircraft tests.

No it does not.

Try the black light test. You will most likely find that your are covered with small plastic fibrils that are NOT laundry detergent or textile based fiber or simple "lint". These are mass produced for a different purpose.

Yeah, carpeting.

syntheic fabrics, etc.


BTW. How do you know for sure that they are polymers?????

Fibers could be from a number of sources.

spiderwebs,

asbestos,

fiberglass,

paper

plant matter

animal fur

human hair

and so on,






[edit on 18-11-2004 by HowardRoark]

Abdul, I have two questions:

(1) Do you know the makeup of these "fibrils"?

(2) Do you have any evidence or data which connects them in any way to persistent contrails?

I'm new to the chemtrail "debate" as I've only been reading about it for a week or so. I went to ChemtrailCentral.com and registered, made a couple of posts in which I probably sounded like a skeptic, and was immediately banned. My own limited research and my gut instinct tells me that chemtrail believers are being misled. Several of the photos I've been shown as "evidence" actually made me believe the opposite. Good post by Off The Street.

Originally posted by Emily_Cragg
We hear a lot of things, don't we.

But the truth is not being spoken, with any verification, very often.

I have archived testimony that chemtrails are chemical-dumping, by pilots who do the dumping, at yahoogroups/abidemir in the Messages section way up at the front [if somebody wants to go dig that out].

So, no way I'm going to accept the idea that it's just moisture--contrails.

Too many pilots have "spilled the beans."

How do you know they are really pilots? Where is the accountability? Do you know their names or did they just come along and post on yahoo saying they were pilots? Research is no believing anything anyone says.

Cyberseal, I think you'll notice that just about every one of the "chem-trail" sites which feature "researchers" and "seekers of truth" usually ban anyone who asks embarassing questions.

Perhaps they're afraid we'll "infect" any of the folks who still might have the ability to think things through.

And, by the way, don't pay any attention to Howard Roark's blandishments. He's just upset because I have a covered parking spot at CIA headquarters and he doesn't.

Originally posted by abdul
Does Laundry detergent contain polymer fibrils?

No it does not.

Er, it might depending on what brand you use.

I couldn't understand Roark's post to begin with, was he poking fun at me, or supporting what I said? Either way, it doesn't matter.

I do have one question though. Some of the "chemtrail" photos I've seen show skies with seemingly perfectly spaced trails covering large expanses. I thought most passenger jets followed similar paths when flying their routes, can anyone explain those photos? (I'm looking for one now) Seriously, some of the images I've seen show sections of sky that have A LOT of these perfectly spaces lines.

CyberSEAL

First, Check your U2U inbox for a message from me.

Like Off-The-Street says, The chemmie forums are notorious for their intollerance.

As for the regularly spaces lines. Think of it this way.

If the traffic volume is such that the traffic lanes are utilized to the max, then the planes will be flying over at fairly precise intervals. The air route stays fixed geographicly, but the air mass the planes are flying through is moving. If the planes are flying north-south at 10 minute intervals and the air mass is moving west to east at 30 MPH, then the contrails will be spaced out 5 miles apart.

CyberSEAL, being banned from Chemtrail Central is an indication that you might be normal. Consider it an honor. After you have perused the various chemtrail forums more you'll understand. If a person believes in chemtrails they belong to a sacred cult where facts and truth have nothing to do with anything. In their world the Moon can wobble, flip over and leave it's orbit. To the chemmies, normal folks like us all work for THE POWERS THAT BE, and are paid agents, here to discredit the chemmies and disinform the unsuspecting sheeple. Have fun, we do.

BTW - this message was written in a special code indecipherable by chemmies. If you were able to read and understand it, then you are normal.

[edit on 11/19/2004 by Yaak]

Why use chemtrails if u could use Foxnews to make people feel nauseate?


I do believe however that HAARP could be more than an innocent meteorolistic research project...

[edit on 23-11-2004 by Countermeasures]

Cynicism is also a fraud-based activity based on categorical denial.

I have seen chem-trails sprayed and I have felt their effects. Carnicom and radarmatrix faithfully document the effects of chem-trails in the United States.

If you're not HERE, you cannot speak to what is happening here.

Carnicom's not the fraud. The person who is a fraud is the one who speaks without knowledge, to convince others they are wrong.

Flake off.

Thank you for sharing, Emily.