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Fuel Storage for SHTF Scenario

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posted on Mar, 29 2012 @ 03:46 PM
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Well, one of today's hot threads (currently the topper) got me thinking.
I really don't have a plan (other than looting) for any kind of fuel storage.
A bunch of Jerry cans just aren't going to cut it.

Tried to search online to get a ballpark price on above ground fuel storage solutions, and everyone wants to do a quote...no prices. I sent off for this, so I'll let you know what I hear back. With the price of fuel, it probably wouldn't be a bad idea just to hedge off a bit, and buy fuel when cheaper, and store it. So, not just a survivalist thing, but a frugal one too.

Many other ranches and farms do this it seems, (though they are probably farther from the gas station than I am). I'm only looking to store about 500 gallons. I don't think I'd be able to fill anything else, hehe...as it is, that's $2000 to fill that tank.

Anyhow, I'll let you all know what I find out, but if someone already has, by all means, please let me know. I'd like to see if this is even financially feasible and worth the investment.

(and forget underground tanks. the red tape for that (and expense) would kill you unless you're a service station).




posted on Mar, 29 2012 @ 03:52 PM
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reply to post by Gazrok
 


Ehh with the shelf life of gasoline why even bother storing beyond your needs to get out of dodge? link Except for what you will need for going where your going, how much of a supply do you think you will need? That generator may not be the best use of a dwindling gas supply. For normal storage when it can be refilled all I can say is watch where you store it!
edit on 29-3-2012 by hangedman13 because: duh moment



posted on Mar, 29 2012 @ 04:02 PM
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reply to post by hangedman13
 


Yep, if I didn't have rural property, and room, I wouldn't even think of doing so.

As for shelf-life, there are products that aid in this, that keep the gas usable for up to 10 years (you have to add the products every 6 months). Like PRI-G (Power Research Industries).



posted on Mar, 29 2012 @ 04:18 PM
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reply to post by Gazrok
 


Is the additive formulated for the ethanol in the fuel and how will it hold up if the amount of ethanol in gas is raised? Considering that the mix has been increased at least once in the past few years. I have a friend whose daughter race's and he had a pretty good sized storage container for her fuel. {It was actually a non-ethanol gas} You might want to consider checking into places that sell supplies for racing.



posted on Mar, 29 2012 @ 04:25 PM
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reply to post by Gazrok
 


Sad to say, while having a store of gasoline seems like a good idea, in a very dismal and practical sense, it will be an invitation for your own murder.

When TSHTF, they will come...the mobs that is, when they roam the countryside and spot your tanks. They won't be bullet proof. either. So how will you protect them from a shooter several hundred yards away if their attempts at simply taking the gas from you fails and they decided that if they can't have, neither will you.

You have no advantage. It is a disadvantage. You absolutely will not be able to get any vehicle on the road when all the rest of them are out of gas. You couldn't armor a personal vehicle enough. Even a military tank needs outside support to survive in a battle zone. You won't have it. Rather, you will attract the wrong element. They will hear and see you coming and their guns and fire bombs will be at the ready. There are no simple solutions to survival if TSHTF...maybe their aren't any at all.

(Admittedly, I have a dim view of decency being much of a part in the drastic decline in modern living that is coming. I think the circumstances that we have today and those that we will be forced to accept in those end days of modern life predicts that we will about all turn vicious simply for the sake of necessary for personal survival. That is what it gets down to, personal survival, not the future of the country or the status we can acquire, or the goodwill we build with our fellows,but the gritty survival as depicted in The Road. However, that survival will depend entirely upon strong connections to others that we can forge before the time or after.

Being old, and experienced in many ways. It would do me nor society any good if I held off as many interlopers as I could until I ran out of bullets or got plugged in return. So, don't take me for one of those types. If the time comes, I've decided the best thing I can do is to throw my weight to a young family or local, worthy group and help them survive because I would need not.)
edit on 29-3-2012 by Aliensun because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 29 2012 @ 06:04 PM
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Just do what the big oil companies do and store it in an aquifer or environmental reserve, must save you money if they are doing it. All about the bottom line remember.


But seriously, I would have a look around hard salvage yards and scrap yards.
They usually have tanks of some description.



posted on Mar, 29 2012 @ 06:27 PM
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just curious ...

rather than set up for a fuel dump , why not set up to make your own biofuel ? would be much easier than worrying over scavenging for fuel ...



posted on Mar, 29 2012 @ 06:39 PM
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Instead of storing your gas you should look into making your own bio-fuels

Then instead of trying to survive on what little fuel you managed to scrounge in pre-SHTF times, you could become a fuel kingpin in the post-SHTH world



posted on Mar, 29 2012 @ 08:25 PM
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youll need an additive so it wont settle. I use it in my go karts that i only use 3 times a year...gas is so high that ill drive my go karts if the shtf...im learning about solar right now, its spendy but probly worth it...GO RP !



posted on Mar, 29 2012 @ 10:16 PM
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Originally posted by hangedman13
reply to post by Gazrok
 


Is the additive formulated for the ethanol in the fuel and how will it hold up if the amount of ethanol in gas is raised? Considering that the mix has been increased at least once in the past few years. I have a friend whose daughter race's and he had a pretty good sized storage container for her fuel. {It was actually a non-ethanol gas} You might want to consider checking into places that sell supplies for racing.


Much less convenient, but I have access (free) to containers that are 2.5 gallons each that are perfect for the diesel fuel that my backup generator uses. I only get about 2 per month but I steadily add to my inventory, every one is dated so I can keep track of things. Gasoline is another matter though, I only buy gasoline without ethanol and am much more careful about treating it and rotating it so it doesn't get too old.

It's not too hard to find (free) sources for smaller containers, and the upside is you don't have some guy delivering 500 gallons of fuel to you. You just pick up a few gallons at the station while you fuel your vehicle. SHTF, it's probably not best to draw too much attention to what you are storing.



posted on Mar, 29 2012 @ 10:21 PM
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MADMAX .......................arggghhhhhhhh , well that seems to be the narrative , convoys of marauding gangs seeking fuel , willing to bump you off , not good



posted on Mar, 29 2012 @ 10:29 PM
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If memory serves me correctly, you and your wife just inherited a ranch on 5 acres. Use the business/ ranch to set up and buy the fuel... here in NC, it would be Farm Use and you could depreciate the investment over the years on your taxes as a business expense.

Look on Craig's List for fuel storage tanks, pumps, etc for used supplies and fixtures.

Also look into the local gas/ oil/ fuel company and see if they offer a set up that is a lease or rental with the aggreement to buy their product and then you could spread your costs for fuel over the months... just like heating fuel. Plus, the equipment is theirs so no maintainance.. if it brakes they fix it.

Or, save your money and spend it on something else... like solar or wind and ride your horses for travel and hauling...better yet, spend it on hay.

Remember, you grew up and are a cowboy.

By the way.. if SHTF, the gas folks won't come around for a while to collect.
edit on 29-3-2012 by AlreadyGone because: comment



posted on Mar, 29 2012 @ 10:46 PM
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Okay here is my take on it. First off don't have anything that runs on gasoline, not only is the shelf life of gas very short, but it can also be difficult to come by in certain scenarios. Also modern gas engines are heavily reliant on computers and could therefore be at an extreme disadvantage if there was an emp.

Diesel is the only way to go IMO. Not only is diesel more stable than gas, but there are still many diesels out there that are mechanical which means that you have no computer or electronics issues besides the starter and alternator, making them almost immune from emp effects. Also with any diesel you can very easily run it off of used french fry oil which I really doubt will be high on the list ofitems that will be looted.

A simple sock screen followed by any low micron cartridge filter will make almost any used cooking oil into a very viable biodiesel substitute. Once you have screened it through a sock you then put it into a fuel tank with a heater core installed inside it and wait for the engine to get to operating temperature, about 200 degrees, then once the oil is heated to operating temperature you simply switch to the cooking oil and drive all you can off of it. It is that simple, I have an 83 Jeep Scrambler with a 4bta Cummings that is my daily driver and I drive 50% of my time to work (90 miles round trip) off of cooking oil with it.

To try and store large quantities of gasoline in a survival situation is not feasible. When you are trying to survive it is all about mobility and self sustainability. When the people around you hear your generator running they are going to assume you have food and shelter, then if they are desperate or crazy enough you are dead and what was once yours is theirs.

Bottom line, don't store gasoline or fuel as in the end you will wish you had spent that money on ammo, guns, and gear.
edit on 29-3-2012 by Nucleardiver because: dumbass droid smartphone isnt very smart with its.predictive txt..........



posted on Mar, 29 2012 @ 10:52 PM
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gasoline goes bad in about six months plus
you need to add stabilizer
still it has a shelf life

if you premix for two strokes the oil will settle so beware
it needs to be shaken stirred
lots of blown snowmobile engins ( not mine) figuring that out

I agree with NP above
go diesel and work on a source of bio oil
making quality diesel has soap as a by product
which might be a good trading item
edit on 29-3-2012 by Danbones because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 29 2012 @ 10:56 PM
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reply to post by Gazrok
 


Hi gaz,
I guess I can suggest calling or stopping by a tractor supply or other farm equipment outfit. They have the gambit in liquid storage. Usually more affordable than you think.
the best ljb



posted on Mar, 29 2012 @ 11:00 PM
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reply to post by Nucleardiver
 


I totally agree with you.

Diesel Fuel has the longest shelf life out of any fuel.

I would store that rather than anything. Even if you don't have a diesel engine vehicle, you could always find one.



posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 02:08 PM
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Well, the big truck (F350 dual), the tractor, and generators are diesel. So, the biofuel idea is actually a pretty good one for these. (and I'm going to look into that).

This is more for the smaller truck (F250), car, and mower.

I like the leasing idea, I'll look into that also.


Is the additive formulated for the ethanol in the fuel


This company makes the same treatment options that the refineries and oil companies use to preserve fuel quality while awaiting sale, etc. Yes, it takes that into account.

As for storing it in smaller containers...again, untreated gas will deteriorate. It's why your lawnmower that you last used last year, isn't going to start up without adding new, good gas.

As for the tank and visibility, you can bet in a SHTF scenario, I'd be hiding that tank from view. In fact, I've been working on some ideas that can make a decent looking ranch appear like an abandoned for years type place, in such a scenario.



By the way, I got the quote back. I expected around $5000, was just a bit more...

For a 300 gallon tank, mounted, with dispenser hose/nozzle, and associated gauges and what-nots, came to a little over $6200.

I'm definitely going to check into all options (especially the leasing one and biofuels), and see what all is out there, before committing that kind of money to it, but it's nice to know where this is all at. Would have been nice if the quote was more itemized.
edit on 3-4-2012 by Gazrok because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 03:12 PM
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I would suggest calling a supply company (called an "oil service" where I live). They will usually give you some advice about who the best supplier is in your area.

If you can afford to take your time, then I'd go to various farm auctions / estate sales in your area. If you've just acquired a piece of land, you want to do that anyway, so as to avoid paying 'new' for all the equipment needs you are just now discovering.

The call to the oil supply service is probably a good bet anyway. Most will carry gas, diesel and propane too. If you aren't heating your buildings with propane, you might look into that. It is the cheapest method, and gives you independence from the electrical grid, depending on the set up you go with. Used to be, every gas heater and stove needed an electrical hook-up. If you asked for one that didn't also use electricity, the salesman would roll his eyes. Nowadays, they don't even look up when you ask, they sell all kinds of stuff that doesn't need an electrical input to run a fan or anything.

Where are you getting diesel from now? You can buy a tank that will fit in the back of a pickup, with a pump that runs off the battery. Then you can drive to town to get it. But you'll get a lot better price if you have it delivered by a supply service.

Third thought: if there is a farmer's co-op or welding shop, they can probably sell you one. The welder may make you one from scrap---a popular practice where I live.



posted on Apr, 3 2012 @ 04:17 PM
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reply to post by Gazrok
 


www.northerntool.com...

you can buy new or used another thing is using those truck fuel tool box combo's to get and keep it as well as fuel stabiization products like PRI-g and PRi-d and other name brand fuel stabilization products.

Keep fuel in air tight containers and are temperature and water sensitive so it behooves those who stockpile any amount to keep them in the shade so to speak.

Rotation is another thing that one can do to keep their stock pile "fresh".



posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 03:46 PM
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Good tips..


If you aren't heating your buildings


I'm in FL. Heat is needed about 3 days a year, hehe...

Nice thing about where I'm at, is even though I'm out in the country, I'm still a pretty quick drive to civilization, so yeah, I currently get my diesel at the closest station.

I like the idea of going with a service though, we're I'm basically leasing the thing. Will have to check into that. After all, if the SHTF, not like they are going to collect, hehe...


Would definitely rotate to keep the gas fresh, and yes, use the additive. If nothing else, this thread brings up the need to treat stored gas, otherwise, it will be useless when you need it.

The biggest reasons I'd want my own tank like this are:

1) If there was a run on gas like we've seen a few times, I wouldn't have to sweat it, I could wait it out.

2) If there was a storm (and all the stations for miles go empty), I'd be alright for a week or so.

3) I'd have enough to keep generators going for a few days in a short-term situation.

I really do like the biofuel idea though too. I've heard that doing this for diesel is actually not too difficult, so that may be the way to go, if for nothing else, than to power backup generators.






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