Life is not Precious...

Life has more value now than at any other time in history. As we evolve, we come to value life, in all it's forms, even more.

There are places on the earth where life is still cheap, and there exists entire tribes, clans, sects, and regions where life is cheap. But in what we call the civilized world, life has value. I believe this is one of the reasons why the U.S., UK, Australia, Canada, etc. are willing to go into other nations to assist with preventing internal human slaughter. It's because we recognize that life has value. It's the reason why we disdain and make it illegal to kill endangered species of animals, birds and fish. Even amphibians. We recognize that life has value.

So, in moments of despair and frustration over these things, as you are clearly experiencing now, think of the progress we have made and will continue to make. Other peoples will catch up in time.

reply to post by getreadyalready

A really excellent post OP. Not being of a religious nature I sometimes wonder what happened to the trillions and trillions who went before me. Did they all just disappear into dust? What use their power, their wealth..?
If you have ever had to clear out a deceased persons belongings, it's weird.
Could it be we are here one minute and then gone? Poof and we don't exist. Not in an afterlife, not in a re-birth, not anywhere.
Maybe what we have while we are living and breathing is all we have.
As for soldiers going into war, more so those who voluntarily enlist, I think there is a large amount of 'it will happen to the other person not me'. In fact if we didn't think this way, we might easily be paralysed. Would we even get in our cars each day? Because some motorists won't come back..

As a teen I got swept out to sea but fortunately was rescued. I remember that initial sense of incredulity when I realised I couldn't get back to shore. I didn't go to the beach that day expecting to drown. I was going to be one of those front page headlines that always happen to someone else. How could it be ME?

reply to post by imherejusttoread

You're measuring life as a value of quantity rather than quality. Sure, lots and lots and lots of life centrally planned toward a particular goal would appear more meaningful, but then, when analyzed, it's just extrapolating the quantitative value of life from a roach to the human being-- whom are both qualitatively different. A roach doesn't possess the quality of life to appreciate it.

I think I was saying exactly the opposite.

We do possess the quality of life to appreciate it, agreed, but that makes it even more tragic when we refuse to appreciate it!

I'm not concerned so much with the quantity, except in the cases of murder, suicide, and war, but in many other cases we have no control over out quantity, but we always have control over out quantity, and knowing how precious life is, and how fleeting and fragile it is, we still manage to waste the vast majority of it. It is a shame that we don't focus all our efforts on our quality of time we have here.

reply to post by AussieAmandaC

Do you really think we don't deserve all the time we are given to spend how we please? Exercising what we were given and utilising our free will.
Weather it conforms with your ideal of wastage does not matter, except to that person and the people around them.

I didn't say anything about what we do or don't deserve, and I am not criciticizing how other people choose to use their free will, as long as they realize they are in fact making a conscious choice!

I think an awful lot of people, including me from time to time, waste the majority of our time on any given day, week, month, year, etc. We spend the time thinking of yesterday, or stressing over tomorrow, or worrying about things so far outside our control they don't deserve our thoughts. We miss quality moments right in front of us while our minds are a million miles away, and I don't think we are intentionally choosing to do so! I think we just forget how fleeting life is, and I think we are just lulled into letting it pass us by, and we need to get slapped awake sometimes.

reply to post by starchild10


I have those same thoughts. I think we all have those thoughts, even the religious folks. Those thoughts are why I don't believe any person can be a pure atheist and also be a civil member of society. If someone truly believed there was only this life, and nothing more whatsoever, then how could they choose to live within the confounds of civil law? Why would they choose to go to work everyday to a job they hate, and why would they worry about their credit score, or mowing their lawn? If I had lost all hope of any bigger picture, and there was nothing spiritual in the Universe, and no energy or God whatsoever, then I would not waste a single breath doing anything except satisfying my inner Id.

I'm not saying all atheists are sociopaths, but I don't understand why they are not.

An old thread of mine on that particular subject.

The presence and values of the dark side does not make life any less precious. Everyone counts far more than the universe and the school, the students, and consciousness counts beyond any concept of value. Unfortunately, what you painted out, just goes to show, that where there is free will, there is gravity and dark side.
We need to shine light into the dark and reveal/expose this, and we need to be healing vessels each other.

"First of all, we currently have about 7 Billion people in the world. "
I'm unique! Just like everyone else!

"Obviously the life is not valuable except as a sacrifice or statement to serve a greater cause. "

Value [Beauty] is in the mind [eye] of the holder [beholder]

"Obviously life is not precious."
Aw, but you confuse the subject. Life IS precious. However, a life is not. It is a matter of pattern. Sure, you can kill 1 billion people and the world might be better for it, but if you wiped off all life, then I'm sure someone would have something to say about it ! And, as to the general consideration that life is precious, that falls under two ideas: one, life is the most precious thing anyone can have or give; and two, in respect to law and behavior towards life, the reason life is considered precious is so that law acts in the pattern that life is precious; ie, it is fine to say that a particular life is not precious, but when you have a law that says life is not precious, that that is applicable to all people and consequently a great deal of people would disagree.


"Far too many people spend life just wasting time,"
I would agree, people waste too much time "on ATS, or watching cable news, or playing video games, or watching movies, or working or visiting a hospital,". Oh, I kid; videogames are certainly not a waste of time.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
I have those same thoughts. I think we all have those thoughts, even the religious folks. Those thoughts are why I don't believe any person can be a pure atheist and also be a civil member of society. If someone truly believed there was only this life, and nothing more whatsoever, then how could they choose to live within the confounds of civil law? Why would they choose to go to work everyday to a job they hate, and why would they worry about their credit score, or mowing their lawn? If I had lost all hope of any bigger picture, and there was nothing spiritual in the Universe, and no energy or God whatsoever, then I would not waste a single breath doing anything except satisfying my inner Id.

I'm not saying all atheists are sociopaths, but I don't understand why they are not.

I always ask myself these same questions. I'm not religious, or atheist. I believe that there is a fairly good possibility that some omnipotent intelligence does exist somewhere, but I leave it at that and don't get caught up in the specifics. As a friend of mine so brilliantly stated: "I do not deny the probability of an unknown, higher, and/or inconceivable something.

I always wonder to myself if atheists are more prone to suffer from depression. I mean it is a pretty bleak isn't it? Coming to the realization that life is pointless. It's difficult to say whether or not atheism causes more problems in society, because organized religion certainly causes its share of problems, and has for quite a long time. Are atheists more likely to murder or rape than a spiritual person due to the fact that they won't face any kind of judgement or karma? Questions like these are difficult to answer; and it's probably not possible to come to any definite conclusion. It's a very grey area.

reply to post by getreadyalready




It's all about perception and opinion and emotion.
For us as individual human beings with friends, family, lovers and so on... of course lives are precious and each time someone we love dies it hurts, we mourn and it's hard to deal with.

Move that out to when someone else you don't know dies and you hear about it on the news... another town, city or country...whatever... it's bad, you stop and listen a second, feel a little bad or just flick the channel over... whatever, it doesn't affect you personally and although you're not being cold or mean or insensitive, you really don't care or it doesn't affect you on a level that really matters.... and even if you do care, it's not the same as your own flesh and blood dying or one of your friends.

Some circumstances like war or horrific murders and so on are different... we have it shoved at us and we hear about it to the point that we do care... if it weren't for the media, friends, internet... whatever, we wouldn't even know or care.

No think about us as a species on a planet with billions of species... creatures, animals, birds... whatever.

Of course in the grand scheme of things we don't matter... I would imagine everyone (bar the insanely religious people) know and understand this on some level.

But we keep it localised... we keep what's dear to us close to our hearts and build up relationships and feelings and a whole existence with these people... they are our lives... they are everything to us.
So of course their lives are precious, significant and so on.

It depends on how you're looking at it and what the purpose of your looking is

reply to post by getreadyalready

Originally posted by getreadyalready
I have those same thoughts. I think we all have those thoughts, even the religious folks. Those thoughts are why I don't believe any person can be a pure atheist and also be a civil member of society. If someone truly believed there was only this life, and nothing more whatsoever, then how could they choose to live within the confounds of civil law? Why would they choose to go to work everyday to a job they hate, and why would they worry about their credit score, or mowing their lawn? If I had lost all hope of any bigger picture, and there was nothing spiritual in the Universe, and no energy or God whatsoever, then I would not waste a single breath doing anything except satisfying my inner Id.

I'm not saying all atheists are sociopaths, but I don't understand why they are not.

Actually I've had this discussion/debate before... and It's exactly the opposite of what you suggest.
If you know that this is probably it and there is no grand party in the sky... no big reunion... nobody watching, waiting and judging you on your actions... the you live a much more free and fulfilling life.

You have just ONE chance and one life to do all you can and be the best you can be.

You have no worry, no conflicting emotions or worry about whether you should because god might be annoyed, and I don't mean illegal or dodgy things, just life stuff.. just normal everyday things.

Not worrying about an afterlife or God is liberating, the exact opposite of religion.

As for anything else... universe, weird alien planet... that is completely different to religion and spirituality.
Nobody knows that there is not some random thing that happens after death, nobody has come back to tell us... nobody has recorded anything and just plainly... nobody knows.

Atheist is about deities... gods, supreme beings... in the religious sense... that is IT.

It has nothing to do with anything other than that.

People think an Atheist can't believe in paranormal matters... or any other such stuff... that's nonsense.
All it means is that people don't subscribe, bother with or even believe the nonsense ramblings of a group of power hungry men who wanted to scare and control each other through the concept of god and eternal damnation.... and tell tales about how god/gods are watching and judging you and so on.

It relates to no other part of a person's life or ability or personality.

If anything, people are better behaved and have more reason to live.

Instead or arguing with other religious idiots and trying to kill each other because "My god is better than your god" which is the way our planet and species has been since whatever moron decided to make up all of this nonsense.



"Human beings need to behave well in this world, not any other. We stand on our own feet, and our feet are human feet" - Simon Blackburn


Are you a Humanist?

When I first started living it, in my younger years when I thought I was unique, one in a million, it was precious. As I matured, though, I realized it is not the life of a single individual that matters. It is the idea that life as a whole does.

It is what you, as an individual, contribute to the collective, whatever that may be. The only thing that has stayed constant in this world regarding life is our ability as the human race to continue and how we develop new ways to do so. (Medications, technology, beliefs, etc...)

If you raise and develop your child to be the next Einstein, does that make your life precious? I believe so, because you are contributing to the advancement of society.

If you work at a tedious job that pays little to provide for your family, does that make your life precious? Your family probably thinks so, and I’m sure the company you work for appreciates you doing the job no one else wants to. (I hope)

Every person matters, everyone is precious, if they choose to be. You may not get recognition for who you are/what you do, but you are valuable, none the less.

The only part of this belief I have troubles with is the pedophiles, killers, thieves, and the like. I cannot fit them into the equation. I guess there are always exceptions???

Thanks,
Blend57

reply to post by getreadyalready

Life may not be precious, but we try to make it precious.

And not everyone performs this role equally well.

You just have to accept that there's a spectrum of possibility for people.

Some will rise high and some will lay low, but they all want this life to mean something.

I have a little pet theory about this too.

I realized that I remember things better during specific sequences in my life. For example, when I was going to school or working a particular job. Conversely, I don't remember days that're mirror reflections of others. So I seem to recall things in my life that're not clones of other things in my life, but genuinely new or challenging or provoking. And I realized from this that without these sorts of memories that I remember well, life is a blur. And when it's a blur, it's hard to find meaning in it.

I don't know why, but I had Whitney Houston in my head yesterday:
One moment in time
When I'm more than I thought I could be
When all of my dreams are a heart beat away
And the answers are all up to me
Give me one moment in time
When I'm racing with destiny
Then in that one moment of time
I will feel, I will feel eternity

Nothing startling or captivating. Just had that "One moment in time... feel eternity" going through my head. I'm not a spiritual person. I'm not a Whitney Houston fan. In fact, last I heard that song was probably 10 years ago on the radio. It was just something random, just like shapes in clouds.

Life will NEVER be precious if we always contemplate about it when we are down!

Go to an isolated place where only YOU and Mother Nature are present and observe your sorroundings at that point! Try to explain to yourself how that flower was formed, how plants grow, how certain animals can fly while others crawl, how clouds are formed as they go past you, how amazing the blue sky is (or stars at night), once you have asked all those questions about nature, THEN look at yourself and ask similar questions!

Life IS Precious when you are in the right state of mind!

Now, when you come back down from that beautiful altar and make your way down to the real world, then you'll see how everything changes. In the end, it is up to you to determine how life actually is and how to keep it precious to yourself and others!

Cheers!

reply to post by getreadyalready

Science has attempted to rationalize all of that.

For example, why should I stay with the tribe and work with them and even sacrifice some of my own personal time? Why not just go out on my own and do my own thing? Their conclusion, as I understand it, is that by sticking with the tribe we lived longer and healthier, and in that process we were happier. Thus, our (selfish) desire to be healthy and to live long was satisfied better by sticking with others than by going out on our own. This is just one example of many.

There're lots of explanations for why people aren't nihilist or destructive when only material reality is concerned. And the ironic thing is, greed and selfishness are at the very center of it!

It's the same kind of question to ask why we should follow the ten commandments if there's no god? Why should I not rob others blind if there's no punishment? As most of us have realized by now, if we each robbed each other blind then we're not gaining anything at all. And if we're killing each other...

We can't fulfill our selfish desires if we're all dead. Ignorance is the worst sin of all.

What does it take to bed a woman nowadays? Lots of brains and muscle and discipline.

See, fulfilling our desires is just a matter of xyz.

And if you fail to meet the standards? Adapt or be thrown in prison. It's the way it works.

When our version of reality is too detached from reality then we become extinct.

I recall a study recently. They parsed words from various articles all across the world from the past years. The looked for negative and positive words. They discovered that while there's much disappointment out there for humanity and this life, there was a measurable lean towards the positive in the words used. This means that if these words are reflective then we're (generally) content.

And I think that's the way it's mostly always been. Bittersweet with some forgiveness. I think that sums up how I feel about most everything too. Since I don't think anybody chose to be here in this life or in this world then I think we're doing a heck of a job considering the situation we're in (we're essentially hostages). The good memories and the unknown are enough to keep us going.

reply to post by blupblup

You have no worry, no conflicting emotions or worry about whether you should because god might be annoyed, and I don't mean illegal or dodgy things, just life stuff.. just normal everyday things.

I think this is the most important thing for all of us to learn, and I think those of us that are spiritual need to learn it the most!

I don't do anything here for a reward in Heaven, and I don't believe in a Hell. Everything I do here I do to experience here and now. Religious people miss this, and Spiritual people have a little better handle on it, and if I were an Atheist I would take it to the extreme.

This carnal existence is just an experience. We need to get all we can out of it, but we need to do so without harming or holding back anyone else's experience. That last part is a spiritual concept that comes from the belief that we are all equal and all connected. Without that spiritual part, then someone could get all they can out of this existence without regard for anyone else.

reply to post by jonnywhite

For example, why should I stay with the tribe and work with them and even sacrifice some of my own personal time? Why not just go out on my own and do my own thing? Their conclusion, as I understand it, is that by sticking with the tribe we lived longer and healthier, and in that process we were happier. Thus, our (selfish) desire to be healthy and to live long was satisfied better by sticking with others than by going out on our own. This is just one example of many.

I think you are correct. There are definite benefits to staying with the tribe, and there are benefits to following the order and civility of the tribe. So, on pure logic, one might choose to live within the bounds of law the majority of the time, but their motivations would still be selfish, and if they could manipulate, or exploit situations for personal gain they would certainly do so. We might "share," but we wouldn't have "charity." There isn't much of a difference, but there is some. It stems from motivation. The people giving to charity publicly with fanfare, and only up to the limit of their tax breaks have one motivation, while the ones that are giving to friends, neighbors, and strangers quietly or anonymously have another motivation, and it is a spiritual one.

So, I believe you are correct in the pack survival being a logical choice, but within the pack there would be exploitation and selfish motivations without spirituality to guide one's thoughts.

reply to post by getreadyalready

We just go on with our lives. We don’t make extraordinary efforts to enjoy every moment, or connect with our loved ones, or reflect on our purpose for existence, we just get through each day and rush to the next one until we run out of days.

Life is not precious………… BUT IT SHOULD BE!

you've just established that it's precious to you

it's precious to me too getready

we can't control how other people view this life - we can't make them value what they won't

we can only live our own lives - and do what we think is right

forgive the corniness - but I believe in pay it forward. It's unbelievably powerful - and it works in the real world, with real people living their very real lives

by example - it's the best we can do

now - my simplistic and unintentionally condescending advice to you right now would be - get out of here

go outside and sit in the sun

let some stuff go

I have to do this myself every once in a while

reply to post by Spiramirabilis

now - my simplistic and unintentionally condescending advice to you right now would be - get out of here

go outside and sit in the sun

let some stuff go

I have to do this myself every once in a while

Thanks!

But, I'm not depressed, far from it. I wasn't depressed when I wrote the thread either. I've spent the day today coaching my sons' T-ball team, gardening, cleaned my deck, played soccer with the boys and the dog, now I have to interview a couple of nannies for the summer, and then tonight my wife and I are going out for our 6th anniversary!

I spend every possible moment outside, happens to be storming at the moment, LOL! Anyhow, it is great advice, and I agree completely, and I'll take it to heart! I go outside for anything that ails me, from stomach flu to allergies, from angry to depression, nothing is ever wrong with me that a little bit of sun and sweat won't cure!

reply to post by getreadyalready

...The more time one spends on ATS, or watching cable news, or playing video games, or watching movies, or working or visiting a hospital, or being involved in government or law enforcement or military, or even reading religious text or history, or studying sociology or psychology, or becoming educated in any means, including science or philosophy, no matter what one spends their time doing….. it becomes more and more clear that life is not precious. In fact, life is common, mundane, and insignificant...

holy crap getready - if this is how you sound when you're happy...

:-)

glad to hear you're feeling so swell, but if you wouldn't mind - and just for grins: WTH?

in other words - what's up with your OP?

reply to post by getreadyalready
Life is how we perceive it.

Namaste, GRA you're someone I respect on these boards.