Thailand government bans MMA

I do know what I'm talking about. mostly SF guys will try and create distance so they have room to bring their weapons to bear and shoot the attacker. but the actual hand to hand fighting techniques are a combination of southern asian martial arts and old school combatives. they aren't doing muy thai and jujitsu.

And that navy seal MMA fighter knows that there is a massive difference between what he's doing now in the ring that it's just sport and not what he'd use in a real life situation in the street. he will fall back on his military training and use more effective means of self defense than MMA. The thing is he knows the difference. he's the exception I was talking about. most MMAers don't. they study sport fighting their whole life they train for sport and thats what comes out in a street fight what you trained for in the beginning. the real world is a whole other animal.

Also almost all the knife fighting techniques the SF guys use are from southern asian martial arts too. Notice that the SAS were heavily influenced by the south asians and alot of their fighting techniques which illuminated the way for most of the SF community. they went to those systems because they work. the angles theory and body structure are superior.

Anyways the thread is about thailand banning MMA. I say it's due to money and gambling. but I also say that disrespect for their culture is also a factor.

reply to post by getreadyalready


I agree, with most of what you said. There seems to be some contradiction in the pro-mma mentality. Like MMA fighters are said to be the toughest guys in combat sports yet they also want to claim that it has the least injuries. Does not make sense to me, if you had a guy like Vitali Klitschko fighting with 4oz gloves there are going to be some major injuries.

reply to post by Destiny Of Souls

What else do you expect from an internet tough guy that purports to be a man that could take any MMA fighter at any time, with emphasis on his age?

I'm sure Crocop, who is considered washed up by MMA standards, would cave his head in with a left roundhouse, but who knows. We all know how amazing internet tough guys are at fighting.

That is exactly why I put it out there the way that I did. Set up the fight. Let them prove me wrong. As long as the money raised can benefit my friend, I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

For the record, I made the mistake of doubting an internet tough guy once. He said some things that sounded outrageous, and I called him out over and over, and even made a little fun, and he sent me a private message telling me I should really be more careful who I call out. We exchanged information, and he verified that he really was the 1%er he said he was, and he really was a bigshot in the biker gang he claimed to be in, and he sent me pics, and now we are Facebook friends, and I plan to visit his bike shop sometime soon, LOL! Luckily for me he was a pretty level-headed guy!

Not all internet tough guys are liars, some of them are the real deal. I've surely been in more real fights than the majority of the guys in the UFC, but my age is a factor, and some of them are much better trained than me, and most of them are much more naturally athletic than I am, so all things considered, any one of them should be able to destroy a guy like me.

And that is exactly my point.

I don't think they can do it, because I don't think they have the killer instinct, or the mean-streak, or the heart, or the toughness to actually pull it off. I think they are highly trained nerds, and I think they tap out too easily, and I don't think they really want to put a hurting on anyone, I think they just want to play fight until it gets hard, and then quit and get paid.

Originally posted by daaskapital


This decision is a very interesting one in my opinion. I do partially agree with this decision though. Through MMA, Muay Thai is mis-represented through the arrogant nature of the MMA fighters, something that has no place in real Muay Thai. Furthermore, there is no sign of tradition, respect or culture present in most MMA fighters who practice Muay Thai.

So, yes, i feel that MMA is damaging the image of Muay Thai. What does ATS feel? Was Thailand swayed by the Muay Thai community to ban MMA, or was it a credible decision?

www.fighterso nlymag.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Well said.

Originally posted by Pinke

Originally posted by getreadyalready
And what the hell is up with tapping out? Really? What kind of "ultimate" fighter could ever look in the mirror ever again after tapping out?

One that can fight again some other day and has the intelligence and honor to know when they've lost?

I dunno, it sounds like you're looking for something akin to Roman Gladiatorial combat or something a bit close to before UFC had rules and blood ended up everywhere. It was quite sickening.

I don't see how your desire for ripping arms off makes banning MMA 'okay' and stand by my stance that most people wouldn't last twenty minutes in an MMA gym nevermind against a pro that doesn't know how to finish a fight allegedly.

I agree with everything you've said, but then why call it "Ultimate Fighting" or market the guys as the toughest in any sport? If they are just professional athletes worrying about their career and their next fight, then they aren't really tough guys are they? There is a huge difference between an athlete and a fighter. Mike Tyson was BOTH, and Mike Tyson was DANGEROUS!

If it is just a sport, then don't call it ultimate fighting. If they want to be considered ultimate fighting, and the toughest fighters in any sport, then they should prove it with their performance, but they continually prove otherwise.

I guess my real complaint is truth in advertising. Their sport is fine for what it is. It just isn't ultimate fighting.

Originally posted by BASSPLYR
I do know what I'm talking about. mostly SF guys will try and create distance so they have room to bring their weapons to bear and shoot the attacker. but the actual hand to hand fighting techniques are a combination of southern asian martial arts and old school combatives. they aren't doing muy thai and jujitsu.

When I was in the Corps our MCMAP consisted of techniques taken from Krav Maga, Karate, Kick boxing, Judo, Muay Thai, and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.


You're way off on military training.

well if they want to claim they are the "ultimate" then yes they have to put themselves in the same situations and risks as a life and death gladiator fight, a no rules fight, and be successful. THey don't therefore they are not ultimate anythings. just misguided guys learning a smattering of martial arts poorly and using them in the ring. a good fighter knows he has to end the fight in less than a few seconds. they will be dead if they don't. to do that you need to incapacitate the guy very fast. you don't do that with grappling and tapping a guy out. you do it by striking them very hard in the head and neck at the very first opportunity either breaking the neck with grappling while the guy is still standing or by smashing the skull in.

If MMA fighters really knew about all of this than you would see a lot more sidestepping and knockout punches in the first few seconds of just about every match.

THere is a science to destroying other humans with your bear hands, some martial arts know the principals of this science and others don't. Its just a fact of life. combative martial arts do not work on the same principals as sport fighting. the techniques are different and so is the game. you don't see combative players you see combative practicioners. there is nothing playful about it.

Now all this aside all martial arts do have their uses and I'm not knocking them it's just that some are for combat some are for sport and others are more for health. MMA is in the sports category. while some of it is useful the general theory of it is discordant with combat orientated martial arts. Can the MMA beat up a average joe or loadmouth on the street yeah sure. can they hold their own against people who rely on those skills to litterally save their life of protect the lives of others. I say no.

On a side note my spelling sucks today.

I'm not sure I agree, but I understand. Just look at what MMA has done to boxing in the U.S. I'm surprised that Las Vegas didn't fight it in the early years. At least when Dana White took over U.F.C. and popularized it. Some states don't allow professional MMA and they may never.

However if you ask most any M.M.Artist they will tell you that each individual fighting style is immortalized even further through the knowlege they seek. They will travel to Thailand, Brazil, Japan, ect. to hone those specific skills.

Mui Thai has a hero in my book. Tony Jaa !!!!!! I love him and the Ong Bak trilogy. He can save mui thai single handed. And in Ong Bak 2 he trains and fights in many different martial arts. Then mixes them together with an over all mui thai feel. Quite convincingly too. Some of you might say that he's only an actor and holds no sway......well.....he could kick MY butt!

reply to post by Pinke


BTW, this earlier post of yours was VERY GOOD!

I actually do enjoy catching fists with my face. Well, maybe not enjoy, but definitely not opposed to it. An awful lot of good fighters are good because they can walk into a punch, deflect or endure, and then dishout excessive damage in return. Often times athletes spend their time avoiding every possible blow and are thus not able to land anything significant of their own. Fights where the fighters are scared to get hurt are boring fights. Fights where one or both parties are most interested in inflicting pain are way more entertaining than the fights where they are most interested in avoiding pain.

And I'm definitely not saying to outlaw grappling, I'm just saying when I watch the sport, it is very obvious who has been trained in avoiding holds and trying to get holds as opposed to those that just want to hurt the other person and end the fight. The very technical grappling fights where both fighters are afraid to strike or afraid to get put into some hold are just so boring and unimpressive.

As to your Bruce Lee reference--Love It-- and as to your 120 frame per second making things look much simpler than they really are, I'm sure there is some truth to what you say, and it is a lot easier to criticize when the blood and sweat isn't your own, LOL! Still, I've given up plenty of blood and sweat, and I think I can recognize a scary fighter compared to a trained athlete, and I'd much rather fight the athlete any day! The athlete might land more, score more points, and frustrate the hell out of me, but at some point they won't know how to finish me off, and it is going to cause them to hesitate and get whammied!

yeah I already said the basic military is teaching jujitsu. they also change up the martial arts they are teaching every couple of years. Krav maga is pretty much a combination of the other martial arts you mentioned. I've watched the marines train hand to hand too it's not exactly top notch. SF guys aren't relying on the training they got in bootcamp. they have actual experts come in and teach them much different stuff from what you were learning.

Jujitsu works in some situations. thats why it's taught its a good introduction to grappling so one has a general overview of how joint manipulation works and have some basic skills to use in the battlefield. but it falls short in real life when the heat is really on and the other guy is trying to kill you. It's good for bouncers manhandling drunk jerks and for dealing with the average joe. it does not work on a guy trained to do combative grappling. there are other grappling arts that are much more effective for this. SF guys go further in their grappling and use other south asian martial arts instead because they work better.

reply to post by Chi-and-Me

I'm not sure I agree, but I understand. Just look at what MMA has done to boxing in the U.S. I'm surprised that Las Vegas didn't fight it in the early years. At least when Dana White took over U.F.C. and popularized it. Some states don't allow professional MMA and they may never.

This is also proof of the weakness of MMA/UFC. One good heavyweight boxer could easily pull all the attention from UFC and back to boxing with a single event! If a George Foreman, or Evander Holyfield, or Mike Tyson type fighter showed up on the scene today, people would forget all about MMA/UFC, because the fights just don't have that drama and flair to them that boxing has. They don't duke it out, and gut it out, and endure ups and downs and win over the hearts of the crowd the way a 10 round heavyweight boxing match does.

UFC only got its 15 minutes of fame because Mike Tyson went to jail and came back without his heart in the ring, and Holyfield got hurt too much and had to quit fighting.

It would only take one dominant heavyweight boxer to make UFC nothing but a memory.

man I gotta agree with the last posters comments for this thread. He's dead on.
second line.

Originally posted by BASSPLYR
I've watched the marines train hand to hand too it's not exactly top notch. SF guys aren't relying on the training they got in bootcamp. they have actual experts come in and teach them much different stuff from what you were learning.

You probably watched a bunch of tan belts out of boot.
You can pursue your training after boot camp if you wish. You can earn up to a 6th degree black belt depending on your rank.

Jujitsu works in some situations. thats why it's taught its a good introduction to grappling so one has a general overview of how joint manipulation works and have some basic skills to use in the battlefield. but it falls short in real life when the heat is really on and the other guy is trying to kill you. It's good for bouncers manhandling drunk jerks and for dealing with the average joe. it does not work on a guy trained to do combative grappling. there are other grappling arts that are much more effective for this.

We don't only learn combat skills.
The BJJ we learn is mostly for detaining people.

The strikes and take downs we learn are more combat oriented

paradox agree with your last post. No arguments there. Also, i think it's great that they will allow you to train afterwards up to 6th degree blackbelt. Finally a accord we can reach on.

Anyways. I agree that the whole issue with Thailand banning MMA is to protect the money flow for Muay Thai.

Originally posted by Chi-and-Me
I'm not sure I agree, but I understand. Just look at what MMA has done to boxing in the U.S. I'm surprised that Las Vegas didn't fight it in the early years.

Im not sure what you mean, the last UFC in vegas fight had 10,000 people 1.3 million viewers and last mayweather fight 14,000 and 1.25 million viewers on payperview. there are just about as many people willing to pay 45 bucks to see a boxing match as there are people willing to watch a free UFC fight. The whole boxing is dead thing is more of a meme than anything else. A lot of old people that want to say "back in my day" well guess what? When Joe Louis was fighting people used to say he was no jack johnson.

reply to post by Pinke

Now either Bruce Lee is wrong, and a couple of street brawlers could take the UFC belts as soon as they feel like it ... or much more likely, when you're watching something on a 120 frames per second slow mo replay it looks a lot sloppier, a lot less technical, and a lot easier to thwart than it really is.

Bruce Lee never had a single professional martial arts fight in his life. He is just a theatrical martial artist , an actor who was the son of an actor. Nothing but a Legend made up by Hollywood, Dan Inosanto and the 'Lee Foundation" who continue to make money from his films year after year.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by Chi-and-Me

 

I'm not sure I agree, but I understand. Just look at what MMA has done to boxing in the U.S. I'm surprised that Las Vegas didn't fight it in the early years. At least when Dana White took over U.F.C. and popularized it. Some states don't allow professional MMA and they may never.

This is also proof of the weakness of MMA/UFC. One good heavyweight boxer could easily pull all the attention from UFC and back to boxing with a single event! If a George Foreman, or Evander Holyfield, or Mike Tyson type fighter showed up on the scene today, people would forget all about MMA/UFC.

Hell, if the klitschko brothers were american heavyweight title fights would once again be front page news.

there is a lot of myth about bruce lee. he wasn't the greatest fighter of all time. He came from a acting background (it was the family art) he was part of a local street gang at 13 (youth street gangs were very common at the time, where they would have territorial fights with other street gangs but mostly spent their time messing with the british in honk kong) at the time he was in that little street gange he wasn't know as a great fighter. according to his friends "bruce got his feathers singed a lot" in those early fights. but bruce was an egotist and couldn't stand loosing. he was known as a sore looser. So he swor to himself that he would never get beaten again. he had to be the best in his mind. SO he took wing chun lessons to combat the Choy Li Fut trained kids that were kicking his ass.

Bruces teacher Ip Man had issues with the community for teaching bruce (bruce isn't 100% chinese, he actually has a tinsy bit of german) student threatened to boycot the school because Ip Man was teaching a "non chinese"

people in the US thought bruce was the greatest but the asian cmmunity wasn't that impressed. what made bruce popular in the asian community was that he was representing asians as being healthy and strong which was not a reputation people were attributing to them at the time. they saw bruce as a hero battling asian racism and showing asians in a good light to the western community. but not really because of his martial arts.

Bruce was not perfect he did drugs and even had a few of them found in his blood when he died at his girlfriends apartment where he was cheating on his wife at the time. Bruce was a known womanizer too.

Most of Bruces fighting system Jeet Kun Do is not from any martial art he was familiar with but added later from guys who were getting into kali/ silat and excrima.

Bruce thought he was a amazing martial artist until he ran into a stuntman on a movie set named gene labelle. THey got into a friendly sparring match and gene kicked bruces ass completely and fast too. bruce was so stunned that he started learning shoot wrestling from gene labelle. thats where bruce started getting into wrestling to add to his jeet kun do. after that episode he started repping genes fighting methods like in the beginning of enter the dragon.

so bruce wasn't really an A+ type character.

although danny inosanto is all about getting paid these days and he's loyal to bruce almost to a fault. but danny is in my opinion a much more rounded fighter than bruce ever was. Danny's done a lot to rep kali and silat. most guys respect him a lot for his knowledge and for his easy going conversational teaching style. he's got a lot of very good students.

Mixed Martial Arts is a wonderful sport and it's combatants are some of the hardest working athletes in the world. Being Pro-Muay Thay or Boxing, while being against MMA is just goofy.

reply to post by getreadyalready


What's your weight class and where do you live? I'll fight you for charity.