Do We Need to Devolve in to a Bonobo to Survive? (Only PARTLY kidding)

No. I do not think we can return to the hunter-gatherer period. Some say that this is the only way we will survive the grave ecological crisis on our planet. I might stipulate that bonobos would be more able to survive on this planet than we are (plus all of the fun they seem to have).

What I would say, however, is that a lot of things in our environment are not functional. One with Evolutionists and Creationists of all religions agree upon is that we did not come from cities. Urban living might well be out of step with our biological nature. Note that early humanity did not have:

1) air pollution, except with fires and volcanoes but those went away and were not constant
2) authoritarian governments
3) harsh noises from machines, cars and motorcycles disrupting the ear
4) disconnect from the soil
5) constant crime
6) tele-evil-ision pumping violence in to almost every home
7) music was natural, with flutes and perhaps stringed instruments, not harsh electric guitars
8) paleolithic humanity did not have dictators, unlike neolithic humanity, ancient humanity, medieval humanity, and much of the world
9) paleolithic humanity had harmony with the environment
10) early man had relative sexual equality, which ended with agriculture

Also, religious control was different with early tribes. It was there, but evidence seems to suggest it was more about personal experience.

Could scenes like this:

www.youtube.com...

be a sign that too many people are crowded in to urban areas when humanity evolved in small bands?

Since we are unable to go back, how do we design cities so that they are smaller, more decentralized, and leave room for Nature? I am interested in re-wilding so that is why I ask.

Your points may be valid, but us first world people could never go back to being hunter/gatherers. Nature is gross, and there's no internet/TV.

Sounds like hippies to me...

"Devolve" into a bonobo?

Bonobo's don't pollute the earth and the atmosphere, drops bombs on each other, terrorize and persecute each other, lie to each other, alienate each other... Bonobo's don't torture other animals, spy on each other, insult one another, humiliate one another... etc

Surely you mean we may need to evolve into a bonobo to survive...?

reply to post by EarthEvolves


Hello EarthEvolves. This is a very important topic that we should be considering. Star and Flag.

Since we are unable to go back, how do we design cities so that they are smaller, more decentralized, and leave room for Nature?

Man has been with Earth for millions of years. Over 400,000 years if we are only considering Homo Sapien Sapien. We have lived a substantial span of our history exposed to nature, the elements, and the wild. Our modern materialistic and technological world of vast metropolises has caused a deep sever between mankind and Earth.

Biologically, we are not accustomed to this way of life. Almost every way that we use energy is increasing our cancer rates. Nearly all of our man-made "stuff" is making us sick and giving us diseases. Living a more natural life-style is incomprehensibly beneficial and important.

You've wisely noted that society won't simply revert to a more natural lifestyle anytime soon. So what can we do? Use facts and evidence to show our fellow people what things are killing us, giving us diseases, making us sick, and effecting us negatively. Spread simple knowledge about the subject. Talk about it like we are doing here.

For example, some people don't know that energy efficient Compact Flourescent Light bulbs increase and promote cancer growth. Some people don't know that the chemicals in sun-block actually accelerate cancer growth. Some people don't know that the leading cause of world-wide preventable diseases is improper diet. Eat raw fruits, vegetables, nuts, and grains more often. Less hormone and chemically infested meats. Less beverages, more water. Moderate natural sunlight gives us Vitamin D, boosts our immune systems, and increases overall vitality and health. Let's get this kind of info out there.

We will survive using our technology and ability to understand and manipulate our environment. Something no other creature on this planet can do. Ironically it is these very same strengths of our spiecies that are leading us (and a huge swathe of the biosphere) to the brink of self destruction. As the decades pass, the imbalance we have casued in nature is going to get worse and worse. The human population of earth is likely to drop to 1 billion or less this century. The planet and ourselves will probably be all the better for it. It is an inevitable fate we have been unable to avoid ever since we first discovered fire all those millenia ago. Maybe once the lesson has been learned we will start living up to our real potential, which is truely limitless.

I was with you there for a while...
Until you dissed electric guitars!
*flips table

reply to post by EarthEvolves

2) authoritarian governments
5) constant crime
8) paleolithic humanity did not have dictators, unlike neolithic humanity, ancient humanity, medieval humanity, and much of the world
9) paleolithic humanity had harmony with the environment
10) early man had relative sexual equality, which ended with agriculture

I think these points are pure speculation.

Authoritarian or dictator rulership.... we can not know how a tribal leader treated his village.

Constant crime... the definition of 'crime' varies from society to society. There always were 'good' and 'evil' people.

Harmony with the environment... what about the Paleolithic over-hunting of the mammoth and other animals? It is very possible that all of the other hominids of antiquity were victims of genocide committed by Homo Sapien Sapien.

Sexual equality... it is possible that earlier civilizations were matriarchal.



I think you are over-vilifying our modern world and over-glorifying the pre-modern world. Regardless of what we are talking about "the grass is always greener on the other side."

reply to post by FOXMULDER147


"Devolve" into a bonobo?

Bonobo's don't pollute the earth and the atmosphere, drops bombs on each other, terrorize and persecute each other, lie to each other, alienate each other... Bonobo's don't torture other animals, spy on each other, insult one another, humiliate one another... etc

Surely you mean we may need to evolve into a bonobo to survive...?

end of quote

EarthEvolves: Gulp...Ooops. Yes, that was what I meant. Sorry about my unfortunately choice of terms. I think I was being somewhat ironic in my use of the term "devolve." I was probably taking the usual narrative and inverting it but the thought did not get through.

I stand properly chastised!

Originally posted by Qumulys
I was with you there for a while...
Until you dissed electric guitars!

*flips table

Umm...well, did Lucy jam to Jefferson Airplanes millions of years ago? Our original form of music was acoustical. I am not going to be politically correct if I am going to be accurate. There were no sex change operations in those days either. You can call me intolerant, but I am pointing out facts.

In philosophy an "Is" does not necessarily imply an "Ought." What was is not necessarily what *MUST* be. It may be that what we can adapt as a species to computers, caffeine, and Rick Santorum as President. (I like the first two) But, we have to admit what the past was, and that our modern environment may be ill adapted to us.

PS. I like Jefferson Airplanes a great deal. I listen to philosophical rock music of the Sixties generation. In addition, I especially like Trance which is definitely technological. My sense, however, is that much of that type of music flows with the human ear and gives a sense of beauty much more than something raucous or discordant.

"Make love, not war." Something our Bonobo cousins apparently do and are continuing to experiment with in spite of the failures of our species' recent attempt. Unfortunately, or maybe fortunately (?), they have not evolved to our level of technicological and environmental expertise and abuse.

Were they in our position would they behave as we do?

History suggests they would as once tools are developed and implemented competition becomes a dominating factor, relegating cooperation to the back burner, so to speak. Survival of the fittest becomes a matter affecting the individual and those that co-op with the strongest member rather than the collective group as a whole... the strongest of the species then become most capable to propagate with little affect from the lesser members of the species.

The word 'devolve' doesn't mean what you think it does. There is no such thing as de-evolution.

reply to post by Astyanax


I am not sure what you think I think it means. I used the term as an irony and not as a scientific statement.

Teleological View: Humans are more "evolved" than other apes because of space ships, television, and Chinese made IPADS that are not really made with exploited labor because the corporate media told us that was all made up (honestly now).

My ironic twist on the term should be evident from the context. Accepting the teleological view, we might have to "devolve" if we are going to survive.

If irony escapes you then next time I will try farce.