What is matter? No one knows.

reply to post by Baron01


It is a well known fact that butterflies can see ultraviolet colors that are invisible to human eyes. Many flowers, host plants and butterfly wings have this ultraviolet color so butterflies can easily distinguish them.

Originally posted by smithjustinb

What I got out of that is that "empty" space actually contains a small iota of energy (still referred to as the ability to do work). That's all well and good, but there was NO explanation for what the energy actually IS. They referenced it as vibrating strings, but failed to explain what those strings actually were.

So my original post's question is still unanswered.

I think that the reason why you are unable to understand that all matter is energy is that your mind is attached to a materialistic view of the world.

In your mental working model of the universe you view matter as the fundamental thing that makes up the universe, and thus you view the absence of matter as nothingness.

In your model, energy is only a concept, "the potential to do work". Work is defined as the product of force times the distance through which it acts. Force is any influence that causes an object (matter) to undergo a certain change.

Thus everything leads back to matter. This model does not support an explanation of that from which matter is made, being based fundamentally on matter and its interactions with itself.

Open your mind to the idea that everything is based on energy (defined as an indirectly observed quantity), that the universe is in fact a large energy field of varying vibrations. "Empty space" is actually an area of low vibration, the virtual particals that we indirectly observe are this energy's vibration "popping in" to our observable spectrum. Perhaps imagine this energy field as a blank canvas; the energy field would be the paper itself, while the image on the paper is energy vibrating at a higher frequency.

Hope this makes some kind of sense

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by Baron01

 

It is a well known fact that butterflies can see ultraviolet colors that are invisible to human eyes. Many flowers, host plants and butterfly wings have this ultraviolet color so butterflies can easily distinguish them.

edit on 28-3-2012 by arpgme because: (no reason given)

Yes and it's a fact that I can watch through every object with my eyes closed.

reply to post by Baron01


Sure but you can't see ultraviolet in your mind, because humans can not see that color. Butterflies can.

Originally posted by smithjustinb
[Or observed. Which leads me to my definition of what matter, or energy, is. Consciousness.

Love this thread, but PLEASE don't go to some mystical magical god as an answer! PLEASE!

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by Baron01

 

Sure but you can't see ultraviolet in your mind, because humans can not see that color. Butterflies can.

edit on 28-3-2012 by arpgme because: (no reason given)

It's impossible to know which and how many colors butterflies can see. You assume they can see more colors than us but you got no proof. We've got no clue what's going on in the mind of a butterfly. Unless you have lived the life of a butterfly and remember all the details.

Op should repeat 'don't shoot self in foot' 5x every morning while waking up.

Thread title is not a valid hypothesis. Matter is Matter, and forever will be a word...

reply to post by smithjustinb

Since you posted htis in philosophy and metaphysics then it's fair game for me. I must warn you that I don't know very much. I can only speak as a infant about things not even adults fully understand.

It has something to do with the quantum wave functions collapsing into a deterministic reality.

I came across this yesterday:
en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by smithjustinb
Physical substance. What IS it? No one knows for sure. I have an idea though. But I'd rather hear yours right now.

edit on 28-3-2012 by smithjustinb because: (no reason given)

Okay, here goes:

If it can be said that a wash cloth is NOT dry, then by default that cloth is in some form of wetness: damp, moist, or soaking wet. The cloth could be wet with water, or oil, or gas, or blood, but whatever the liquid substance is, that cloth is not dry.

If it can be said that a ball is NOT stationary, then by default that ball is in some form of motion. The ball could be rolling down a hill or on the backseat of a car going 60 MPH down a highway. Whatever the motion is, that ball is not stationary.

Now, if it can be said that a state of absolute nothing CANNOT exist, then by default there MUST be something. It could be energy, deep deep cold, plasma, oatmeal... I have NO idea what this something is, but it is definitely not nothing.

reply to post by Baron01


The proof is that they can distinguish between ultraviolet and other colors, humans can't.

Here is the eyes of the butterfly and how they differ in picking up color than humans:

Butterfly UV vision

If you don't trust that website for any reason, go to google and put "butterfly see ultraviolet", there are many references there.

Originally posted by jiggerj
Now, if it can be said that a state of absolute nothing CANNOT exist, then by default there MUST be something. It could be energy, deep deep cold, plasma, oatmeal... I have NO idea what this something is, but it is definitely not nothing.

Exactly, and I'll like to add:

We can see the manifestation of it in waveforms, whether they be magnetic, or thermal, or sonic, or luminous, or electric, so while we can't measure the energy directly, we know that it is something that exist because it is carried in waveforms. It is even manifested as mass (E=MC^2), so it is in all things.

reply to post by jiggerj


"Now, if it can be said that a state of absolute nothing CANNOT exist"

why should that be said? and why would it be true?

so does the universe exist in some kind of defined and enclosed area,, where only energy-like stuff associated with this area can occur... your assuming because the universe is such an extremely large area,, the biggest area imaginable, the biggest area there could be,,,, that the universe is all that exists,, and that the ways of this universe are all that exists,, and as we can see,, in all that exists, there exists energy,, so of course theres no such thing as nothing,, because we are something, surrounded by somethings,,,,

basically it seems to me,, you wish to justify a disattachment from what you are as energy, and a close knit part of the energetic family/existence of the universe,, by imagining that energy does its thing automatically, and its perfectly normal to create a human like yourself, and you are your own, and completely free and separate,, because random particles can just pop into existence,,

i dont see any other benefit or truth to your line of thinking other then that,,. you think the microscopic particles across the entire area of the universe, coalesced into stars and galaxies, and obeyed unwritten and undemanding laws, of what particle to turn into and what particle to attract to and bond,,. etc..

Originally posted by ImaFungi
reply to post by jiggerj

 

"Now, if it can be said that a state of absolute nothing CANNOT exist"

why should that be said? and why would it be true?

Because absolute nothingness is nonexistence and nonexistence can not exist, this is a logical contradiction.

Originally posted by ImaFungi
reply to post by jiggerj

 

your assuming because the universe is such an extremely large area,, the biggest area imaginable, the biggest area there could be,,,, that the universe is all that exists,, and that the ways of this universe are all that exists,, and as we can see,, in all that exists, there exists energy,, so of course theres no such thing as nothing,, because we are something, surrounded by somethings,,,,

By universe I assume you mean a pocket of space/time? Because originally the world "universe' meant everything that exists....

in multi-verse theory there are many pockets of space/time called "universes" and they are all connected to an infinite eternal universe call the omni-verse....

It would still assume that a universe is infinite or eternal even with multi-verse theory....

reply to post by arpgme


That's just a theory butterfly's can see more colors, no proof.

reply to post by Baron01


Understanding the way the butterfly's eye work is not theory, it is fact, it is something that we can actually examined. It's facts with evidence but you don't care to find. I already gave you one link. There are plenty more for you to look through on Google, but you don't care to do so or you would have already.

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by Baron01

 

Understanding the way the butterfly's eye work is not theory, it is fact, it is something that we can actually examined. It's facts with evidence but you don't care to find. I already gave you one link. There are plenty more for you to look through on Google, but you don't care to do so or you would have already.

Oh please, come on. Prove it to me instead of giving a link of someone elses theory.

y-o-u c-a-n-t p-r-o-v-e i-t g-i-v-e u-p

reply to post by smithjustinb


Does it really matter what matter is?

reply to post by arpgme


"Because absolute nothingness is nonexistence and nonexistence can not exist, this is a logical contradiction. "


before the universe expanded, what surrounded it?

this is about perception,,, only something can perceive,, and by definition only something can exist,,,, this is also about space and dimension,,, for something to exist it must take up space,,,,

now its also a problem of words and definitions,, and the idea that even the emptiest of spaces isn't empty,,, so there cannot exist a dimensional area with nothing in it,,, , anywhere someone would be able to go to perceive,, they would still be within this universal system, surrounded by stuff,,

Originally posted by Baron01

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by Baron01

 

Understanding the way the butterfly's eye work is not theory, it is fact, it is something that we can actually examined. It's facts with evidence but you don't care to find. I already gave you one link. There are plenty more for you to look through on Google, but you don't care to do so or you would have already.

Oh please, come on. Prove it to me instead of giving a link of someone elses theory.

y-o-u c-a-n-t p-r-o-v-e i-t g-i-v-e u-p

edit on 28-3-2012 by Baron01 because: (no reason given)

I'm done talking to you about this subject. You don't give a damn and you are still calling it a theory when its fact. You are sounding like a very delusional person.

Originally posted by arpgme

Originally posted by Baron01

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by Baron01

 

Understanding the way the butterfly's eye work is not theory, it is fact, it is something that we can actually examined. It's facts with evidence but you don't care to find. I already gave you one link. There are plenty more for you to look through on Google, but you don't care to do so or you would have already.

Oh please, come on. Prove it to me instead of giving a link of someone elses theory.

y-o-u c-a-n-t p-r-o-v-e i-t g-i-v-e u-p

edit on 28-3-2012 by Baron01 because: (no reason given)

I'm done talking to you about this subject. You don't give a damn and you are still calling it a theory when its fact. You are sounding like a very delusional person.

At least I don't take someone elses theory as fact you cretin.