This is the story that the Trayvon Martin flap has hidden

Originally posted by sad_eyed_lady
reply to post by petrus4

 

You know your post may influence readers to think most Muslims are terrorist types. That would be hate/fear mongering and the world really doesn't need anymore of that right now. I find it particularly insensitive that you would post that on a thread you started about a murdered Muslim woman who obviously was no terrorist.

I've never claimed that my goal has been anything other than to look at both sides; and as far as I am concerned, both exist.

Originally posted by petrus4

Originally posted by My.mind.is.mine
Oh #, if I'da paid attention to the fact that it was you Petrus, I wouldn't have wasted my time.....

So you can prove that all of these are false, can you?

You still don't get it do you?

I don't have to because I'm AMERICAN. Pakistani traditions of honor killing aren't from Islam, they're from Pakistani CULTURE. Its so far separated from me that it's ridiculous. Muslims still have cultures you know.

Geez... Not every Christian is Coptic...

Originally posted by sad_eyed_lady
reply to post by petrus4

 

Originally posted by petrus4

I hate to say it, but for every moderate Muslim I've encountered online, I can find accounts of another half dozen who all but literally walk around saying, "resistance is futile."

edit on 27-3-2012 by petrus4 because: (no reason given)

I have sister who is a Muslim as well as her husband, kids, daughters and sons-in-law.

I wish I was half the woman my sister is and she and her husband did an awesome job raising there kids. No rotten eggs in that family.

Perhaps your outlook is influenced by websites like jihadwatch.org. I would not consider such sources as representative of all Muslims.

You know your post may influence readers to think most Muslims are terrorist types. That would be hate/fear mongering and the world really doesn't need anymore of that right now. I find it particularly insensitive that you would post that on a thread you started about a murdered Muslim woman who obviously was no terrorist.

I know this wasn't aimed at me but felt the need to respond.He's not saying that all Musilms are terrorists.Nor did he claim the woman who was murdered was.There are some who are.Most here in the US are not extremists.Certainly there's some that are though.Also,most people who post here are not dumb.They'll look at the links the OP provided and decide for themselves.

Originally posted by nightstalker78
I know this wasn't aimed at me but felt the need to respond.He's not saying that all Musilms are terrorists.Nor did he claim the woman who was murdered was.There are some who are.Most here in the US are not extremists.Certainly there's some that are though.Also,most people who post here are not dumb.They'll look at the links the OP provided and decide for themselves.

Thank you, Nightstalker. I wish more people understood this.

People only want to see the side of an issue which corresponds with what they think is the truth. So if a story about a beaten Islamic woman is posted, on its' own, some will appreciate that, if they are apologists and think it gives an opportunity for Muslims to be presented as victims. I thought that beating was wrong, and I said so.

On the other hand, however, present something from Jihad Watch, and you're immediately accused of being insensitive. It also doesn't matter if said stories from Jihad Watch are true; they don't present Muslims as being an exclusively innocent group of victims, which is the way Muslims want themselves to be seen.

There are two sides to this issue. That is what I said in the OP, and that is what I'm going to keep looking at myself, and showing to other people. Political correctness on either side of the fence doesn't help anyone.

Not all Muslims are terrorists, but not all of them are exclusively innocent victims, either. I am struggling with this dichotomy myself. I know it exists, but I don't know how to reconcile it yet. I am not going to let go of it until I do figure it out.

Originally posted by petrus4

Originally posted by nightstalker78
I know this wasn't aimed at me but felt the need to respond.He's not saying that all Musilms are terrorists.Nor did he claim the woman who was murdered was.There are some who are.Most here in the US are not extremists.Certainly there's some that are though.Also,most people who post here are not dumb.They'll look at the links the OP provided and decide for themselves.

Thank you, Nightstalker. I wish more people understood this.

People only want to see the side of an issue which corresponds with what they think is the truth. So if a story about a beaten Islamic woman is posted, on its' own, some will appreciate that, if they are apologists and think it gives an opportunity for Muslims to be presented as victims. I thought that beating was wrong, and I said so.

On the other hand, however, present something from Jihad Watch, and you're immediately accused of being insensitive. It also doesn't matter if said stories from Jihad Watch are true; they don't present Muslims as being an exclusively innocent group of victims, which is the way Muslims want themselves to be seen.

There are two sides to this issue. That is what I said in the OP, and that is what I'm going to keep looking at myself, and showing to other people. Political correctness on either side of the fence doesn't help anyone.

Not all Muslims are terrorists, but not all of them are exclusively innocent victims, either. I am struggling with this dichotomy myself. I know it exists, but I don't know how to reconcile it yet. I am not going to let go of it until I do figure it out.

Why is any of this relevant? This is about a woman who got beat to death in her own home and evidence points to a hate crime. The "other side" of the issue is completely irrelevant. That's where it becomes insensitive.

Originally posted by petrus4

Originally posted by nightstalker78
I know this wasn't aimed at me but felt the need to respond.He's not saying that all Musilms are terrorists.Nor did he claim the woman who was murdered was.There are some who are.Most here in the US are not extremists.Certainly there's some that are though.Also,most people who post here are not dumb.They'll look at the links the OP provided and decide for themselves.

Thank you, Nightstalker. I wish more people understood this.

People only want to see the side of an issue which corresponds with what they think is the truth. So if a story about a beaten Islamic woman is posted, on its' own, some will appreciate that, if they are apologists and think it gives an opportunity for Muslims to be presented as victims. I thought that beating was wrong, and I said so.

On the other hand, however, present something from Jihad Watch, and you're immediately accused of being insensitive. It also doesn't matter if said stories from Jihad Watch are true; they don't present Muslims as being an exclusively innocent group of victims, which is the way Muslims want themselves to be seen.

There are two sides to this issue. That is what I said in the OP, and that is what I'm going to keep looking at myself, and showing to other people. Political correctness on either side of the fence doesn't help anyone.

Not all Muslims are terrorists, but not all of them are exclusively innocent victims, either. I am struggling with this dichotomy myself. I know it exists, but I don't know how to reconcile it yet. I am not going to let go of it until I do figure it out.

I'm going to keep this reply short as I'm about to head off to bed.This post here is exactly what is happening in the Treyvon Martin case.Replace Muslims with Blacks and you've nailed it.I know that's not the point to your op,but both of these cases are similar in that manner.The sad thing is in America it's come down to being politically correct.We're so afraid of offending people and pandering to what they want that we'll over look the actual facts.

I'm not a big fan of jihadwatch but I do occasionally check it out.The funny thing is people discount it but then they'll turn around and point you to a MSM source that says the same thing,but only sugarcoated.I'll be back to this thread tomorrow after I've fully reviewed the links you and another provided to discuss the case in your OP.

so whats this got to do with the trayvon case......?

________________________

Originally posted by petrus4
not all of them are exclusively innocent victims, either.

That goes for the whole human population, so why
the cherry picking ?
Not all of THEM are exclusively innocent victims, either.
(oh I meant 'christians', oh 'jews' , well actually the 'masons' ) . . . . . .
Can you at least admit that the Muslim woman who was
attacked in California (or else where) did not deserve to be ?
Are we going to stand by and allow 'kick a ginger day' ?
How many americans will somehow falsely convince themselves
that this mother of 5 children who was viciously
murdered, somehow deserved to be all because she believed
in creationism and the God of Abraham ?
More and more, it looks as if americans are out to kill the messenger.


btw, jwatch is just a version of stormfront/vnn/kkk
a (mudslinger hate site) to be associated with them
is an embarrassed.

____________________________

Originally posted by dayve
so whats this got to do with the trayvon case......?

I guess OP was saying the Trayvon killing has kept this killing off the national headlines. It's certainly been in the news here in Cali though.

It's horrible that someone would do that to another person.

Originally posted by ToneDeaf.
Can you at least admit that the Muslim woman who was
attacked in California (or else where) did not deserve to be ?

As far as I am concerned, this is a cowardly and despicable act.

It was one of the first things I said.

Originally posted by dayve
so whats this got to do with the trayvon case......?

I think I frequent a lot of the same message boards you do.I recognize your name and your posts are almost always off topic.If you are who I think you are keep in mind this isn't ebaum's world.Mods don't slap me on the wrist as I know I'm right about this.You clearly didn't read the OP or you'd realize he's saying the media is making such a big deal out of the Martin case that they're ignoring other cases.

reply to post by petrus4


This story struck me as odd, California usally is the poster child for tolerance...

The first thing I thought was "Gee wouldn't it be real easy to kill some one, and then throw a racist note down to confuse the crap outta the cops."

Even the note seemed rather simplistic and almost like something you write that you would think a racialist would say...

Ive worked and currently know several muslims in the area, and they have told me in the past the most racisit thing they've had to deal with is me trying to sneak them Carnitas...

All Violent crimes are Hate crime, doesn't matter what "race" or Religion you are, its anger against another human being and it should all be as abhorrent, its all the same Violence is Violence no matter the motivation...

reply to post by petrus4


I do not understand your linking of the events.

As far as Osama and his Miranda rights how obsurd, he was an enemy combatant. We had no moral obligation to arrest him. Killing him was far less complicated than arresting and trying him and creating a media circus not mention the security risk from being held anywhere in the world.

Finally as a Christain a retired military and police professional, we have the absolute right to protect ourselves and our nation. I believe that it has been our attempt to have sterile wars that has emboldened our enemies and yes the Muslim faith is an enemy to all those who are NON-Muslim as their religion dictates to them, I find it humorous that we call those that follow their religous beliefs and rules to be radical or extremists. It is quite clear what the muslim religon dictates.

We can never live in peace with these people, the Middle east has been in a state of war for thousands of years, how can you reason with someone who believes he will be blessed for killing all of the nonbelievers he can before he dies??
You cannot use the threat of mutual destruction, they find that a win for them.

We need to treat them as we are treated, instead of suicide bombers we need to use 5000 lbs bombs and missles, we need to kill each and every extremist, then wait 10 years and kill the next crop or contain them so they never reach the strength or numbers to be a serious threat until they are converted. If the are practicing Muslims they must do what they are directed to by their belief.

Most people falsely believe the Bible is about being humble and turning the other cheek, no where in the Bible does it suggest you be the sacraficial lamb. He came and died for us.

Let's get the New Arab Panthers to march with their AK47's demanding justice and see how far that goes

A murder is a murder. It doesn't matter what the motivation behind it was. It's repulsive when the media blows it all out of proportion and gives people the excuse to use these tragedies as a platform to push their own personal agendas. If anything, all it does is add insult to injury. It certainly doesn't seem to make any good out of it. That's what we have the court of law for.

When does a situation involving two people become the intersection of the motivations of two people. One person was walking to his home. Another person was taking in sensory information and making conclusions. When both of these people came into contact they began to make their own assumptions about the other's motivations. As tragic as the situation was in the way it unfolded, the truth is about the information which was not transmitted. If each had half a step of empathy toward the other, then there would not have been the tragedy. We as a whole group of United States citizens have become less interested in another's point of view. We keep our view as we live, without regard to the motivations and points of view held by others.

usually when something is sensationalized with this "impossible to sort out polarity"
it is a financial crime in DC that is being hidden..or a freedom stealer
(the Straus Kahn affair comes to mind...)

like Obama's EO which allows him to take any resourses he wants for any dumbbutt reason at all
that is what is most likely being hidden.

Obama Executive Order Paves the Way for Nationalization of Economy ...
....Entitled “National Defense Resources Preparedness,” Obama signed the executive order late Friday afternoon. Such timing is normally a deliberate ploy to prevent a controversial issue from being picked up by the news cycle. Recall that Obama signed the highly contentious National Defense Authorization Act on New Year’s Eve.

www.whitehouse.gov...

www.infowars.com...

How is this a financial crime? Do you believe that this was premeditated in order to capitalize on a new story?

a prelude to nationalizing the economy for any reason
or no reason at all
..I have to explain how that's a financial crime?

Hey maybe if it will make everyone feel better we could say it's about CORZINE'S admission he directed the theft of all the money, lied to a congressional hearing and there are no charges atall?

Originally posted by petrus4

Originally posted by nightstalker78

On the other hand, however, present something from Jihad Watch, and you're immediately accused of being insensitive. It also doesn't matter if said stories from Jihad Watch are true; they don't present Muslims as being an exclusively innocent group of victims, which is the way Muslims want themselves to be seen.

It is a way all religions want to be seen. So why are you picking on the Islamic community?

Other then the zen buddhist monks, mosts religions have their bad seeds.

Christians and Catholics have more blood on their hands then any religion, and should be the last to point fingers at others.

There are two sides to this issue. That is what I said in the OP, and that is what I'm going to keep looking at myself, and showing to other people. Political correctness on either side of the fence doesn't help anyone.

Um, so you are saying it is ok to marginalize people? wow

Not all Muslims are terrorists,

Hope it didn't take you too long to get to that conclusion.

but not all of them are exclusively innocent victims, either

.

Nice copout from trying to not sound like your not racist.
But guess what, that statement can apply to every single religion, race, sex, culture, etc.