OP/ED: The Right To Die: The Terri Schiavo Case

The Florida Supreme Court has overturned �Terri�s Law�. Terri Schiavo, has been in a persistent vegetative state for the last 14 years following heart failure. Last year, her husband following years of court battles with his wives parents won the right to remove the feeding tube that had been keeping her alive. However, 6 days after the tube was removed the Florida lawmakers passed an emergency law allowing Governor Jeb Bush to order the tube reinserted.


At the heart of the battle is the rights of individuals to determine their ultimate fate. With all sympathy to the parents of Terri who are currently trying to get control of her and remove the husband as her guardian, are they keeping her alive for her well being or theirs?. Having spent over 10 years as a Registered Nurse in both the Pediatric Intensive Care Unit and Pediatric Critical Care Transport, I have seen more children die that I care to admit. I have seen parents grieve, parents cry, and most importantly I have seen the relief that their loved one no longer suffers. I have also have been the consequences of life at all costs as well. The decisions are often made not in the best interests of the one that is afflicted rather the people left behind. These people know nothing but a life of pain and suffering. The very essence of their life is gone and the family is simply trying to preserve a hollow shell. When her brain was deprived of oxygen, everything that made Terri a unique special person was lost. While we get great press over the miracle comatose that awaken after a 10 year sleep, the reality is not so warm and fuzzy. Despite round the clock care, they will develop bed sores, painful contractures that require surgery to repair, pneumonia and the like. Terri did not ask for this life. Her parents did. Well meaning as it may be, is it in her best interests?

As a society we have established great institutions around the creating of life. From baby showers to birthdays we celebrate our own very creation. Our constitution guarantees our individual rights and the right to chose how and when we die if we are afflicted with a terminal disease, or if we are in Terri�s condition. Terri made her decision and her husband is trying to respect his wife and carry out her wishes. The citizens of Oregon have taken the first steps towards allowing our ailing to die with a little dignity and respect. Terri would have had their opportunity but for a religiously motivated grandstand by the Florida legislature. I ask all of you, how many would want to live Terri�s life? I for one would not!


Thank You
FredT


Related News Links:
www.cnn.com

Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:
Should Terri Schiavo be allowed to die. / 9/23/04 UPDATE
NEWS: Law to Save Terri Schiavo's Life Ruled Unconstitutional

[edit on 23-9-2004 by FredT]

[edit on 23-9-2004 by FredT]

[edit on 23-9-2004 by FredT]

[edit on 1/5/08 by FredT]

See discussion at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

ther is only one thing you should remember about these stupid laws, all of the doctors, lawyers and judges went to the same schools togeather the same country clubs and in general they are all pretty good mates.
take for example a butcher gets 100lbs of slightly spoiled meat,what does he do, throw it away? no he will turn it into sausages or mince.
Dying pepole are worth big dollars so why would these doctors want to cull their money making machines.
I myself have my future planned 1/4 of a gram of high grade herroin is enough to put anyone asleep. Totaly painless you just drift off to sleep i refuse to let annyone suffer profit from my misery. i definatly would not want to have terri's life because it no longer belongs to her it's in the hands of money hungry lawyers and doctors

Originally posted by unhingedmullet
i definatly would not want to have terri's life because it no longer belongs to her it's in the hands of money hungry lawyers and doctors

Acutally, this is a common misconception about MD's and hospital in general. The Hospital is probably taking a loss every day she is alive in thier care. The Florida state medical coverage, only reimburses so much and thats it. The hospital or nursing home would be better off financialy if she was not in thier care. Gone are the days by and large where docs made alot of money. Most are employees of whatever medical system that they work for and not contractors that can bill for each and every hour. Where I work, the wages of a Staff Nurse IV (of which I am) is actually higher that an Attending MD in the general pediatic care areas. Factor in how much they actually work and its even more dramatic.

sorry my mistake, but i was more so refering to the people who are not in hospital care and are slowly dying. To watch on of your loved ones slowly rot in front of your eyes is a terrible thing.
And for alot of pepole who can afford top health cover these are the sort of pepole who will do anything to keep their loved ones alive.
Some pepole will pay any sort of money to keep their family members alive, no matter how much pain they are in. these are the pepole who line the pockets of the doctors.
It's unfortunate that cases like the terri schiavo case are the ones that line the pockets of lawyers.

Hi! I am new to this site, and this is my very first post. I didn't come here looking for a huge arguement - just voicing my opinion. What I noticed wasn't mentioned in your post is the fact that Terri Schindler Schiavo's husband has been living with another woman for several years and has 2 children with the new woman. A multi-million dollar lawsuit was won in her case, much that her husband has blown. The lawsuit was won, under terms that the money be used to care for Terri - Michael Schiavo has denied Terri therapy, etc... Terri's family have a website at : Terri'sFight.org. People unfamiliar with her case need to go to the site and learn the real facts. She is not in a vegetative state, reacts to her family, etc... As the mother of 2 beautiful sons, 1 age 9 ( who is a local actor/dancer/model/singer in the Twin Cities and also in USA Team Swimming ), and the other, age 10 ( who is a 100% total care disabled child ) - this is a sensitive subject to me. Maybe other people can't seem to see the unconditional love and rewards involved in raising a special needs child, but my husband, my normal son, and I do. My disabled son was born normal and was given a drug while in the hospital that caused 3 intracranial brain hemmorhages 6 days after birth. He has been through 7 surgeries in his 10 years - 4 VP shunt surgeries, 1 g-tube placement, and 2 leg surgeries. He leads as normal a life as possible, attending school full-time, church ( made his First Communion with his brother 2 years ago ), and enjoys bowling with a special adapted ramp, going to movies, and events like the circus and fairs, etc... He is in a wheelchair, but also can walk up to 300 feet at a time in a pace gait trainer walker. He has leg braces, and although he cannot speak, his facial expressions and sounds and noises help us to understand his wants and needs. We wouldn't trade our little guy for anything this world has to offer! He has taught us not only unconditional love, but how to be less self-centered and less selfish, that people not material things are what count in life, and how to appreciate every little gain that he makes with therapy, etc... What is sad is how people treat their dogs better than they treat disabled people or their own parents and grandparents as they age - forgetting that a simple car accident could leave them disabled as well, or forgetting that one day they will grow old, too. We have grown to be a "throw away" society - if you're unproductive, etc..., you're no longer of use. It's a plain, damn shame, too, that people can't learn how to care for people anymore. People in the medical profession who have a problem with the disabled, elderly or dying shouldn't be in that profession because they lack compassion and caring and don't value human life. Human life, regardless of how fragile a state it may be in, deserves to live. God doesn't make mistakes when he creates any life. That's all I have to say.

My take on this is that when you are sleeping you have dreams, you are able to invision things, I have not seen any Scientific proof that she could not be doing this. How knows what she is 'thinking' or if she can, for all we know she could be screaming inside to let her die. We also do not know what happens when you die, only based on Faith. It was her wish, according to her husband, to have her life terminated in a case like this. He did not physically put her in this situation, with regards to murder. So I do not see how her husband, moving on with his life after 10 years has anything to do with revenge and greed for money.

Nobody knows what she is going through except her and her God of choice.

I have to agree with jackie3691. Terry's parents are willing and able to oversee her care. The only problem here is Terry's husband, who would like to see her gone so he can keep spending the money that was awarded for her care. Another factor in this case is how Terry came to be in the state she is now in. There's a great deal of evidence to indicate that her husband caused the initial injuries that led to this entire situation. It's disgusting that her parents cannot assume responsibility for her primary care.

Originally posted by jackie3691
they will grow old, too. We have grown to be a "throw away" society - if you're unproductive, etc..., you're no longer of use. It's a plain, damn shame, too, that people can't learn how to care for people anymore. People in the medical profession who have a problem with the disabled, elderly or dying shouldn't be in that profession because they lack compassion and caring and don't value human life.

Hi Jackie and Welcome to ATS. This like your post was on OP/ED piece expressing my opinion on the issue. I would disagree with some of what you said. I have looked at this case from both sides of the coin and I did stop futile care on my mother 4 years ago and I understand the emotions that go into these types of decsions. Your own son is a case in point. It is clear to me that he has a functional life, he is loved, and despite whatever physical limitations he has, he and your family are making the most of it. Terri's case is very different from your son. Aside from the fact that she she expressed a desire to not live this way, the question of her responsiveness is open to interpretation. Gross reflexive activities are not indicative of higher cognative function. Families easily interpret this as "she responded" or she knows we are there etc.

You did what you needed to do for your son in order to assist him have the best possible life. Would you have made the same choices if it condemed him to a life of pain and suffering? This issue is much bigger than Terri IMHO. We have not become a throw away society. As a health care professional, I provide the same level of care regardless of your decision on life or death matters. Sure I have my opinion, but in that context how I feel about the choices parents make have no impact on the care I provide. I will go all out for as long as you tell me to do. Im talking about preserving an individuals dignity and showing respect for thier rights as an individual. I have seen Terri's parents on TV and this is as much a religious chioce for them as anything else. Again I ask for whos benifit are they persuing this?

Originally posted by Makuahine
I have to agree with jackie3691. Terry's parents are willing and able to oversee her care. The only problem here is Terry's husband, who would like to see her gone so he can keep spending the money that was awarded for her care.

Hmm damage awards are not typicaly given for the care. The offending hospital assumes those costs in addition to the damages. Terri's parents will not assume her care. They will visit her in the nursing home not take her home and provide care for her. Are you saying that if you were going to be forced to live in conditions like hers or worse, you would consider it okay If say I petitioned the court against your wishes to keep you alive because I can't let go? You guys are all ignoring the simple fact that she did not want to live like this! So much for respecting her rights eh?

jackie 3691 i think the topic is the right to die let me assure i have that right and i choose to exersise that right when i feel it is aproprate.
i may have come into this world helpless but i do not wish to leave in such a state. I would like to see these laws change so the pepole who can speak for themselves but don't have the know how that i have, can seek help.

FredT look at the family's web site to familiarize yourself with most of the facts:
Terri's Fight
There were monetary awards given to Terri and her husband in '92 for malpractice. She was placed into a rehabilitation hospital and according to their reports, was making positive progress. Early in '93 her husband denied her rehabilitative therapy and moved her to a nursing home. A fallout between the husband and Terri's parents followed shortly after. Terri never signed a release stating that she didn't want to be kept alive if she were ever in a sitation like this. She hasn't received any real therapy since 1992 because her husband has denied it. Her parents state that they want to give her a stable home where she will receive therapy and the love of her parents.

Originally posted by Makuahine
FredT look at the family's web site to familiarize yourself with most of the facts:
Terri's Fight

I have seen the site when the topic first surfaced in the mainstream press. That being said, a website by the family who is persuing thier own agenda cannot be your only source for basing your opinions. You and I could go on for hours and hours about what is a vegatative state and reflexive responses etc. We can also talk about the husband who clearly has moved on. But What this boils down to is a basic human right to die with dignity. Terri's parents for thier own reasons (be it religious, inability to let go etc) have chosen this course of action. I do not want to be drawn into the money aspect as it would simply cloud the baseline issue. She did not want to live this way.

Originally posted by FredT
...........to is a basic human right to die with dignity............

..............She did not want to live this way.................

Actually, the basic human right is a right to life, regardless of what you or I would deem as a desirable state.

No one knows what her wishes were as there was no living will and heresay evidence should never be admissible in court-- but your comment about her parents being religious, are you aware she was religious also? She had just been at a Catholic Mass hours before her collapse.

Originally posted by Narnia
No one knows what her wishes were as there was no living will and heresay evidence should never be admissible in court-- but your comment about her parents being religious, are you aware she was religious also? She had just been at a Catholic Mass hours before her collapse.

Once again, it seems pretty clear she had no religious objection to chosing to end her own life if she was in this condition. Her parents may have a religious issue to it. Whatever the reason it WAS her choice. Heresay? Hmmm what psossible motive could the husband have fur allowing her wishes to be honored? Money? The posters above seem to indicate that the husband has spent most of it. Why not simply walk away then? Why persist with this at all? Could it be that he is honering her wishes? He would not even have to give the malpractice money to the parents. No doubt the taxpayers of the State of Florida have and will contiue to foot the bill that has to be in the 10 million range by now. Moeny then eh? Not Likely? Kind of hard to question his motive when the only one seems to be that he loved his wife, and is chosing to honor her wishes.


It would have been an easy call if she did have advanced directives, but alot of people don't like discussing them. Thats human nature.

Welcome to the ATS jackie3691. I agree with Makuahine and believe Terri's
husband is the reason she's in this state. It's the husbands heresay of Terri wishing to die nothing more! That guy is legally murdering Terri and getting the rest of the money to boot! Any parent who loves their child wouldn't do anything less FredT. I believe if the parents could have taken Terri years ago.... she would have testified against her husband in court. Than he'd being doing time in the big house for attempted murder! Instead he keeps spending her money and laughing inside. This is NOT a right to die issue in my opinion. It's a right to legally murder someone who can't speak for herself. It's all about money FredT and getting a rid of the evidence. Terri's wishes my posterior!

[edit on 9/23/2004 by MountainStar]

Originally posted by MountainStar
Welcome to the ATS jackie3691. I agree with Makuahine and believe Terri's
husband is the reason she's in this state. It's the husbands heresay of Terri wishing to die nothing more! That guy is legally murdering Terri and getting the rest of the money to boot!

Two things to say to you:

Please provide the links that discuss this attempted murder? And for gods sake don't give me a link to her parents page or someones blog

If you truly loved your child and they were living a life of pain and agony, with little to no hope for recovery, are you saying you would keep them alive because you love them? Perhaps it would be an act of love that neds thier suffering. Again I ask, who interests are the parents taking into account? Terri's or thiers?

What is most interesting is that Michaels Lawyer, George Felos, has already stated that as soon as Terri dies, he will put out his book on her. He already makes 15 thousand dollars for each seminar he speaks for based on the Terri case.

What is also suspect is that Michael and his fianc�, shortly after getting engaged, owned an insurance company. Which is not active. Money absolutely is the motive as well as covering his tracks.

What this case now says is that any persons that become incapacitated can be starved to death if ANY persons states heresay statements in a court of law. A man this year walked out of a 19 year coma. Imagine if he had a million dollar trust fund that a family member stood to gain. The rights of the disabled have been jeopardized.

If it were the case that she had a living will, I am all for her right to chose. The problem is that the ONLY people that heard her say anything were by the names of Schiavo, Schiavo and Schiavo.

edited for spelling error




[edit on 23-9-2004 by Narnia]

When I was a child I read a fantasy novel by the name of "On a Pale Horse". It was about a guy being forced to fill the "office" of the angel of death. A full chapter was dedicated to nursing home and hospital issues. It made some fantastic (yet extremely simplified) points about the life support systems themselves being the abominations. Imagine thousands of souls caught in limbo all by little human contraptions designed to "preserve human life".

I know using a fictional reference may not be best for my arguement, but sometimes I find more wisdom, logic and common sense in fictional works than in any so-call work of non-fiction. I feel that anyone with any real faith of any kind should not fear death for a second.

FredT wrote

Two things to say to you:

Please provide the links that discuss this attempted murder? And for gods sake don't give me a link to her parents page or someones blog

If you truly loved your child and they were living a life of pain and agony, with little to no hope for recovery, are you saying you would keep them
alive because you love them? Perhaps it would be an act of love that neds thier suffering. Again I ask, who interests are the parents taking into account? Terri's or thiers?

Here's a link for you....

reasonmclucus.tripod.com...

In answer to your second question. That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is in a situation like this.........meaning Terri's husband could be the reason why Terri's the way she is. Any parent would want to find out the truth and protect their child from further harm or death in this case. Michael denied Terri proper care and spent the money which was to go towards that care. It appears to me he didn't want her getting well. His explanation as to how Terri got in this condition is lame to say the least. Can't you even conceive the possibility that Michael could have abused Terri? It happens all the time. He's using Terri's money to pay for a good lawyer, in order to get the feeding tube pulled. A dead person would NEVER be able to testify against him.