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Our chance to do the right thing

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posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 06:02 PM
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Originally posted by mee30
reply to post by Copperflower
 


I said PERSONALLY! It wasn't a demand! There are loads of threads on this topic.

I can give my opinion wherever I choose. I would rather focus on what is right and what is wrong, the "law" gets many things wrong! It is not the be all and end all as you seem to think it is! And even if it is, then you have to accept that zimmerman was in the right as he didn't get charged, no?

So do you think zimmerman was right? Or do you think the police (the ones you hold in high regard) are wrong?

Do I think it is bad that trayvon died? Yeah of course! Do I think he should of attacked zmmerman? No.



This thread is about toning down the rhetoric and showing simple human mercy. I bet people would act differently if that boy's mother or Zimmerman's wife or kids were present in front of us.

I wouldn't. I would do what is right, and show mercy. If this is incorrect, why do humans need grief rituals, burial rituals, and mourning periods?

Even elephants mourn. www.youtube.com...
edit on 27-3-2012 by Copperflower because: (no reason given)


If we did things in the correct order for our mental health, we would still be quietly sad over all this, insteading of seeing escalating violence.
edit on 27-3-2012 by Copperflower because: (no reason given)




posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 06:08 PM
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Here, an elephant mourns a fallen companion:

www.youtube.com...


Here, a mother mourns her dead child, and stays with its body, touching it tenderly:

www.youtube.com...
edit on 27-3-2012 by Copperflower because: (no reason given)


Again, primates reacting together to the death of one of their own:

www.youtube.com...
edit on 27-3-2012 by Copperflower because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 06:12 PM
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Originally posted by Bullypulpit
reply to post by Copperflower
 


On your opening paragraph you made reference to repealing the stand your ground law .If I misread your intent I apologize but the PTB and our President are attempting to do just that and I see no reason to repeal anything.Again,if I misread your intent I am sorry
Twice Ihave seen reference to Bernie Goetz.Was anyone here alive when that happened?I was.He was menaced /attempted robbed by four thugs with screwdrivers they were using to rob vending machines .He was found not guilty of shooting them and got 4 Years for violation of the Sullivsn Act,New Yorks archaic gun law.He did the right thing.Buncha punks robbing people.Not anymore.



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 06:19 PM
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reply to post by Copperflower
 


And that is all well and good, but you also asked for everyone to admit that "vigilantism" is wrong! That is where I disagreed! Yes I believe if any of the parties involved were here in font of us we wouldn't keep bringing it up every 5 minutes as is being done on this site! That is why I said we should just stop with these threads!

I've nothing against the sentiments of mercy and compassion! But you mixed other points in there too, didn't you? And that is what I disagreed with!

I am not an elephant By the way.



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 06:24 PM
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Originally posted by Bullypulpit
reply to post by Copperflower
 


On your opening paragraph you made reference to repealing the stand your ground law .If I misread your intent I apologize but the PTB and our President are attempting to do just that and I see no reason to repeal anything.Again,if I misread your intent I am sorry


My apologies, but I made reference to people who have been advocating some type of reform of these laws, not the laws themselves. Those people saw killings like this, anticipated more, and tried to advocate for a common ground.

I am sure they felt sick when this latest thing happened, and all the mess that has been created since then. They tried to warn people, so they probably feel a special kind of pain now.

Just to be clear, it is about those who saw this coming, not about the law itself. The law is probably needed for a variety of reasons, but the general population is not equipped to make the calls needed for responsible gun ownership. It takes a lot more judgement and self-control than a BB gun, for instance.

An article saying it is arrogant of us to think we are the only species who grieves. How ironic that I speak of mercy and empathy and am rebuffed by the humans this article confidently asserts actually grieve.

www.psychologytoday.com...

How about the boy's mom? How about Zimmerman's family? Any mercy for any of them? I find it hard to believe that no one cares. I have met some very caring people here. Are they all gone? Surely not.

www.psychologytoday.com...
edit on 27-3-2012 by Copperflower because: (no reason given)

edit on 27-3-2012 by Copperflower because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 06:32 PM
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Forget it. I promised myself I wouldn't get involved in this anymore.
edit on 27-3-2012 by OrchusGhule because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 06:35 PM
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I agree that there is no place for vigilantes in today's society.

However, I do think that you have the right to defend yourself.

If you are attacked and you fight back, you shouldn't have to go to jail.



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 07:13 PM
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reply to post by Wildbob77
 




If this thread had been created to discuss that, I would broadly agree. However, this thread is about the sadness of the entire situation and every one like it.

Find your heart, ATS. I did not single out a side to feel sorrow for.

Did you? Why not recalibrate that, so we can be more mentally healthy?

After all, even if it were justified, the lack of human emotion makes us unqualified to even handle guns.

I am part Cherokee, and it is a part I cherish. Many Native Americans prayed for their prey, before killing it. They felt sorrow at taking life, however necessary it was.

It is this higher awareness that I am speaking to, in you. It is valuable for many things, and is evidenced by our reaction to the pain of others.

There is no justification for a lack of mercy. If it is not a tragedy for people to be in this situation, then we will never be mature or fully balanced as a nation or as individuals.

I was taught that the first rule of guns is not to use them unless it is necessary. Without emotion, how can one adequately determine even that?

Find some mercy, for the truly innocent, at least, i.e. the families of the parties involved.

Or don't....but remember that we reap what we sow. If I were killed, no matter how, I would hope my mom wouldn't see people ignoring her pain just to make comments about their own opinions or to criticize instead of sympathize.

There is plenty of time to find the facts, have a trial, or dig into these events more deeply, after the proper time of acknowledgement. For other primates, it seems to be at least the majority of a day.

Have we even had that yet amidst all the chaos? By putting things back into a normal frame of human response, we can be a part of the solution, and not part of the problems cropping up all around this situation.



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 07:18 PM
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I never cared about flags before now, but I am watching to see how many pass this up and consider it a waste of time.

That is making me wonder if this site is not a waste of my time at this point. Everything we discuss is about the welfare and honesty of our world, but there is no desire or appreciation for sympathy? Not much of a world to want. It is not my world, nor the world of vast numbers of people. Therefore, sadly, it is not broadly relevant anymore, but only has room for certain types of people.

Not the ATS I joined. Not the one I valued.






posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 07:19 PM
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reply to post by OrchusGhule
 


Thank you for your restraint.
2



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 07:20 PM
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Originally posted by mee30
reply to post by Copperflower
 


And that is all well and good, but you also asked for everyone to admit that "vigilantism" is wrong! That is where I disagreed! Yes I believe if any of the parties involved were here in font of us we wouldn't keep bringing it up every 5 minutes as is being done on this site! That is why I said we should just stop with these threads!

I've nothing against the sentiments of mercy and compassion! But you mixed other points in there too, didn't you? And that is what I disagreed with!

I am not an elephant By the way.


The law says it is wrong. What is so hard to understand about that? Disagreeing with it is not relevant nor useful. Arguing with me isn't going to change the law.

The videos were for a purpose. I am sorry you can't see the point. Kind of makes my point, really.


But no one has a gun to your head. Just avoid the thread.

edit on 27-3-2012 by Copperflower because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 07:33 PM
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reply to post by Copperflower
 


The "law" didn't see cause to arrest zimmerman! Or are you saying that the policemen do not know how to do their jobs? Are you saying that the police were wrong? As I've stated the law is often wrong, so can not be relied upon as the be all and end all! Can it?

It seems from your other comment above that you were expecting loads of flags from this thread, and it didn't turn out that way. I'm sorry but you're a bit late for sympathy and compassion. There are loads of other threads on this subject where you could of displayed your sentiments, I don't think it needed a whole thread. And like I've said you mixed other things in with it that people do not agree with! You can not blame anyone for that!

I don't see what the elephants have to do with me or this thread.

You said that if the family members were here we would act differently. well do you think they would want people to keep bringing up this subject? Do you think they would want to have conversation after conversation about this with strangers?

Can't we just leave them to it and stop making these threads? Everything that can be said has been said.



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 09:35 PM
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There is a similar thread here
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Please add further comments to the ongoing discussion in the above linked thread.
Thanks




**Thread Closed**



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