It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.


Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.


The Balance of Power: The Truth of God and Satan

page: 1
<<   2 >>

log in


posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 01:17 PM
This thread will raise a lot of arguments, but please remain civil in every post.

The irresistible lure of power...and yet what would you do if you found that you WERE power all along? What would you do if you found out everything you did or said had the power to change your life, or someone else's? Would you use it for the people...or for yourself?

Power, to me, is any form of energy, no matter how loosely you use the word. Hence, this thread concerns karma/energy...which, for the intent and purpose of this thread, are the same thing. You send out sonar, it comes back to you, creating a picture...or changing the balance of your day-to-day life. Blah blah, onward...

Millions of you believe that our fates and flaws, both as individuals and as a species, have been placed in the hands of two invisible beings fighting each other over our immortal souls. Sounds unreal, yes? I thought so too. So I dug deeper, and contemplated even more deeply...and I have come up with something. Something fantastical (to me, anyway).

I'm going to run this idea by you, because I believe that all of you should have a chance to look at this. It may change how you view the world. Or it may give you the biggest laugh you ever had. Either way, I achieved something positive. And...Go!

I believe that our human definition of "god", for that is all the Christian god is (they really have no idea what they're talking about, but that's just me), is a representation of Love. Love is our word for the vibration of the energy of the cosmos from which everything comes. All emotion and energy comes from this.

I also believe that our human understanding of Satan is a transparent effort to avoid responsibility for our stupidity. Satan is not destroying the world; we are. Satan is not killing men; we are. Satan is not starving the children, poisoning the lakes and rivers, raping and violating women, or lying to Russians, Italians, the French, Indians, and Americans during political races. We are.

95% of our most immediate problems in this world were brought upon us by ourselves.

Here is a quote from me and by of the most lustrous and awesome pearls of wisdom I have pulled from the recesses of my mind:

They say the great trick Satan ever pulled was convincing the world he doesn't exist. I say the greatest trick we ever pulled was convincing ourselves that all of our flaws are personified by, and originate from, a mythical being outside of our bodies, thereby removing all responsibility for our own stupidity.

Personally, I think it's one of the truest things I have ever said...and I've said quite a lot of very true things.

Here's where we get into the playing pieces of our spiritual chess game. Paul taught us the "fruits of the spirit":

Self control

And since we must take into consideration Divine Duality (which has its examples all throughout nature...more than I can count) each of these "fruits" has a counterpart, respectively:


Of these two lists of emotions and expressions, every single one is found occurring naturally within the human race. Not a single one of these emotions is unnatural...they simply come from having an inappropriate growing environment, which sometimes needs to be suited to the individual. Generally, a person was missing some aspect of one of the fruits, or maybe decided that one of the "anti-fruits" was pretty fun, or filled some hole inside. Either way, something was missing, so they went off the path.

It's bound to happen. Screw-ups occur in life, but we have a hard time accepting that. There need not be blame. There is no entity involved in this, except for the accumulation of negative or positive energy, which will react with every person in a different way.

In fact, it would be unnatural not to find at least one of those negative emotions in a human. Why? Because we are an imperfect species...we have not yet reached the peak of biological and spiritual perfection. We continue to experience desires of the flesh...and perfection is the lack of desire. You may quote me on that.

There is a reason Paul, apostle of Jesus, (supposedly) taught us of these fruits. Let's begin with the name "Jesus". It was originally Yeshua (Yod, Shin, Vav, Ayin) which basically states that YHVH, his purported father, was Salvation. Not the way to salvation...but salvation in and of itself.

What strikes me as interesting about this, is that everyone says, "You must know the name of Jesus to get to heaven". We've all heard the whole bit about Jesus being the son of God, and the Holy Spirit embodied...

Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
-Acts 2:22

So, Jesus was arguably a man, by their standards. And yet we continue to be told he was the son of God. Not only that, but he held the keys to heaven, and only his name would grant you entry. I never understood this, but now I have an idea. If Jesus' name pointed to YHVH, and YHVH is made of light/energy/love, as the Bible hints -

"Hold it! Hold it! Seriously?"

Why, yes. You wanted proof? Here: God is Energy

And how's this for more proof?

God...who alone is immortal and who lives
in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen
or can see.
Timothy 6:15,16

*ahem* As I was saying...

Could it be that the apostles are saying we must look to love for salvation?

It is the most logical conclusion I have come to with the contents of the Bible and the ancient Hebrew language. And until I have further evidence and material to add, this is what I will stick with. So, Jesus points to love for salvation. A very striking conclusion. This explains Paul's fruits...because every one of the fruits he mentions is a symptom of love.

And on the contrary side, every one of those negative emotions results from a lack of one of the positive emotions. "For every action, there is an equal and opposite..."

Which basically states that everything we give credit for to God and Satan, is actually energy. A purely metaphysical science. There are no entities, except for the energy itself. It is conscious....and it has created everything, because everything, at its deepest level, is made of energy. Negative energy, energy that drains you or has an unpleasant effect on your mind, will always exist. The same with positive energy. They ebb and flow, like the currents in a river...

But unlike those currents, we can actually control these energies, to a point. If we put out lots of positive, we will get lots of positive back. Possibly, it just turns out we're so used to focusing on positive, all we notice is positive. Either way, it works. But with negative energy...oh yes, it comes back. It comes back indeed. Karma, as I said.

Usually, it's a constant back and forth between the two, tit for tat, eye for an eye. Small actions result in immediate reaction. But when you go out of your way to do something, that's when you begin building up on it. And it always comes back at some point. Don't expect to know when it does, and don't look for it. That's called gluttony. "Oh boy, oh boy, good karma! I want it, I want a lot of it!" No. Bad human. Good karma is your reward, but you must do it for yourself, not others. Getting bad karma from being kind to another person for the sake of kindness...defeats the system, right? So you get good karma.

Or energy. Karma is energy, because karma is created by action, and action is energy. Everything we put out is energy, and everything we take in is energy. Our mental processes and emotions are energy. This is why those who have ESP can sense it...because they can sense energy better than other. Everything is energy. And all of these emotions, this energy, it happens all of the time. These energies constantly come from what we do, and other people do. The energy is natural, our responses to it are natural....the only thing truly unnatural and evil is an utter lack of emotion. If someone has no emotion at all, they will never understand right and wrong. And that is unnatural/evil. Why? Because they will never understand why pain is bad, or why killing is wrong.

Only unnatural things are evil. And just because you don't understand it, does not make it unnatural. Don't expect humans to know anything about unnatural. We've only been around 6,000 years, right?

The truly interesting part of this is...Satan. Used to be Lucifer, right? The "Light Bringer". Why would they call him that? Unless we can learn from negative as well as positive. We hurt someone, we learn what pain does. We steal, we learn that we upset others. When we lie, we learn it does not bring candies and gifts. Light casts shadow, and shadow defines light. Negative cannot exist without positive. Divine Duality, male and female, dark and light, back and forth.

It's a two way road, and a two sides coin. And's still one coin. Not two parts. Two halves of a whole. And either half, without the other, is incomplete. That is why we are incomplete, because we have not yet achieved the balance.

So let's bring the Church in for a moment. Why do they hand us a big steaming plate of cow dung when explaining their actions? They don't understand it. Really, they don't. They can argue, but it doesn't matter, I know the truth. You can't argue science to a zealot, it doesn't work. However, they don't need the right answer to do good. They can have all the kindly, fairytale stories they wanna dish until they're blue in the face, but as long as they are pulling our posteriors from that glorious fire of EXTINCTION (in a very real sense) then they are golden.

They don't have a clue what it's really all about. All they know is that we're in danger. I'll give them that. Danger of falling prey to our own gluttony, and tearing each other apart until everyone is dead. So they come up with a fairytale (who, I don't know) and sell it to us. Salvation! Who's going to say no? Everyone's afraid of death. But in the end, they were trying to save us, and we kept trying to drink and fornicate and make money and blow ourselves up. Because for all of our intelligence, we are one of the dumbest, most irrational species on the planet. There's no arguing with that, none at all. Many times, I'm ashamed to be human. It's that bad...and you can lie to yourself all you want, but it's true.

The one problem with ALL of this, is that it forces mankind to take responsibility for both fate and flaw. Man must both accept death, and control his "demons". But man has forever done one of two things: resisted control, or resisted nature.

Man must find the balance, for it is then he will learn the true nature of the cosmos. And with it, will come the power of gods. What better power is there, than the power to resist negativity? You will never need another thing in your life (or afterlife, wink wink).


edit on CTuesdaypm545458f58America/Chicago27 by Starchild23 because: (no reason given)

posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 01:58 PM
reply to post by Starchild23

Well, by virtue of what you've typed, I think we can draw some conclusions based on experience as to what is un-nantural and hence evil;

War (killing for resources or postering for power)
Genetically modified foods (poisoning whole populations for profit)
Usury Banking practices causing debt slavery (stealing from the masses to produce profit while offering nothing in return)
Organized religion (emotional/mental slavery ending in financial slavery for profit)
Governments in general (since they support at least three of the above three practices)

Anyone want to add some more?

Obviously, for any energy based system to work, one requires both positive and negative polarities, just look at how a battery works, so we can't negate one to the benefit of the other. However, there seems to be an alarming trend towards the negative these days which will require an adjustment. I am just wondering where the tipping is and if we will actually see it coming.

Cheers - Dave
edit on 3/27.2012 by bobs_uruncle because: oops

posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 02:05 PM
reply to post by bobs_uruncle

I would like to add more to that.

Organized religion (emotional/mental slavery ending in financial slavery for profit)

I am not a fan of organized religion, but I recently realized that, whether priests know it or not, religion is fighting the war on human entropy. The war very few know exists.

Since corporations and markets have existed for thousands of years, so has the method of convincing the people that their desires must not only be met, but furthered. In other words, we are convinced that want has become need.

Organized religion counterbalances this, so that mankind does not destroy itself in its effort to amass material objects. It keeps us balanced on a knife edge that we could easily fall from, resulting in our own extinction. We are too stupid to realize this, blinded as we are by our flesh...and so, the leaders of "spirit" have to (despite our many complaints) teach us to balance ourselves. But since the true nature of the universe is beyond the ken of Homo Sapiens, we are taught a nonsensical story that is in fact a giant book of riddles, and use that to convince us to pay attention to our hearts, and not just our stomachs.

What I'm saying here is that organized religion is trying to save us from extinction. Not from Hell, or from Satan...from extinction.

Therefore, it's a rather pore example. However, corporations and politics would be very good examples of what you're saying.

posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 02:17 PM
reply to post by Starchild23

To paraphrase, what did George Carlin say about organized religion, who I consider to be quite enlightened as to the state of the world;

"When it comes to bulls**t, big-time, major league bulls**t, you have to stand in awe of the all-time champion of false promises and exaggerated claims, religion. No contest. No contest. Religion. Religion easily has the greatest bulls**t story ever told.

Think about it! Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!

But He loves you.

He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good bulls**t story. Holy S**t!"

Personally, I believe organized religion is just another side of same corrupt coin. Or just another piece of the puzzle in organizing the suppression and control of people.

ETA: Just the link to that part of the George Carlin Transcript that I found quickly.

Cheers - Dave
edit on 3/27.2012 by bobs_uruncle because: added a sentence

edit on 3/27.2012 by bobs_uruncle because: added a link

posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 02:24 PM
reply to post by bobs_uruncle

That's Christian literalism talking.

There's two parts to it. One, there's WHY they're doing it. And then there's WHAT they're doing.

What they're DOING is saving our sorry #es. What they are SAYING is the reason they are doing it, which they believe to be true, but are utterly wrong about.

But you don't have to be right to do the right thing. You can give every excuse in the book, but as long as you're doing right, you're golden.

posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 02:45 PM
reply to post by Starchild23

I would agree with doing the right thing. I've always supported that ideology and actually I practise it, I do the right thing. But I never tell other people to do the right thing, I just sit back and wait, don't worry about it. Then when they haven't done the right thing, I drop the proverbial information a-bomb ;-) Boom and there's a mess, of course since I didn't care in the first place, it doesn't effect me. Not carrying is actually working out pretty good too!

Even though as governments, organized religion and corporations have proved, that extortion does work, I personally don't like to stoop that low. I'd rather cut out the negotiation in the middle and go straight to the heart ;-)

But really, if you wanted to define this world in one word, that word would be EXPLOITATION. It is the NORMAL behavior on this planet. People exploit people, resources, animals, etc and on and on because we're "special," of course that 87.5% that can't think critically are "short bus" special ed.

I can't be an exploit victim if I don't co-operate in the system and I can't be the exploiter as it goes against my ethics and ideologies. I guess I am just not normal, but there is no value in being sane in an insane world.

Cheers - Dave
edit on 3/27.2012 by bobs_uruncle because: (no reason given)

posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 02:48 PM
reply to post by bobs_uruncle


If religion wasn't funded, how well do you think it would reach the people in the middle of all of this economic and political nonsense? Not very easily.

And since exploitation is indeed a common practice in today's world, religion is all the more necessary. Someone has to be around to hold the people accountable for their wrongs.
edit on CTuesdaypm262649f49America/Chicago27 by Starchild23 because: (no reason given)

posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 02:52 PM
reply to post by Starchild23

"Someone has to be around to hold the people accountable for their wrongs."

Ahhh...but who guards the guards?

posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 02:59 PM

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by Starchild23

"Someone has to be around to hold the people accountable for their wrongs."

Ahhh...but who guards the guards?

We do...when we are ready.

Who knows if that day will ever come, though...

posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 03:00 PM

Originally posted by Starchild23
reply to post by bobs_uruncle


If religion wasn't funded, how well do you think it would reach the people in the middle of all of this economic and political nonsense? Not very easily.

And since exploitation is indeed a common practice in today's world, religion is all the more necessary.

But organized religion exploits people through the fear of the unknown (well what other people call the unknown, I think I know better LOL). In that exploitation, they gather up tons of money, "If you don't pay our sorry @sses, you're going to hell" which by the way is called mental/emotional extortion. The RC church is one of the biggest land owners in the world, next to queen horse face and her inbred family. Do these "organized religions" do what they were originally mandated to do, meaning help the poor, better society by spreading the wealth they have acquired through extortion and spread the word? By the way, "spread the cheeks," for the RC priests out there, is not the same as "spread the word," let's get that out of the way ;-)

I don't see the churches or any of these "charitable" organizations really helping anyone but themselves. Even the government has mandated that if you hold a paid event for a charity you only have to give 10% to that charity. WTF is up with that? Oh wait, I know, they have to pay all of their employees that other 90%. Seen it happen too often. Go to a church some time, your own if you have one or any other and ask about baptism, they'll tell you that you have to join and it'll cost you. Ask them to help you out with food or shelter. They'll tell you to try door #2, the government has programs for that, you can't have none of ours!

It is just like Carlin says, it's all BS.

Cheers - Dave
edit on 3/27.2012 by bobs_uruncle because: a ?

posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 03:06 PM
reply to post by bobs_uruncle

Don't you think giving money to churches teaches about generosity? That it also helps them pay for the property and the bills and services? That stuff isn't free, you know. It doesn't matter who you serve.

Would it be more efficient to bring people to church by paying them? Perhaps you want to teach them that money is more important than the message. There's a reason the donation basket isn't at the door.

I think you are looking at it entirely the wrong way, and there's a deeper reason that you either aren't saying, or refuse to admit to yourself.

posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 03:42 PM
reply to post by Starchild23

Haven't read it all but very very good, you "grok".

However, on the issue of desire, the human being, as a process, is an unending wellspring of desire, the only question being one of "congruent alignment" of desire, where the goal is to have "God's will" become our own innermost hearts desire, and in so doing find happiness, of the timeless, spaceless variety, independant of particulars or of people, places and things.

"What does it profit a man to gain the whole world but lose his own soul (character, passion)"?

This to me, isn't about material wealth and power, but a repudiation of Buddhist thought carried all the way through to it's logical conclusion ie: no desire, no pain.

And then we learn, fall down, get burned, hurt and get hurt, cry - until eventually, realization dawns and we laugh out loud, at the Satan within, and at ignorance's expense, and that's the joke of the ages, and at that present moment, we reach the end, and start again, new, even reborn from above, or from perfection, and wholness, and integrity, but for many of us, we need still MORE "education"... and so the joke, provided we don't lose that mirth and charm, just gets even funnier and funnier!

We were the devil, but we were forgiven in the light of awareness and perfect love. OMG, what do we DO now..?

That's why I like to say that in truth, we are already royally screwed in the very best possible way, and cannot escape this truth, our sins found us out, and we were absurd, and ridiculous - now what?

It IS funny! VERY FUNNY!

This is why I say that "God" has an absolutely phenomenal sense of humor, to have set it all (and us) up in this manner, with absolute freedom. It's a real trip.

edit on 27-3-2012 by NewAgeMan because: edit

posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 03:43 PM
Nice post but I will write another theory.

Lets assume that everything in the universe and whatever exists is a whole that is evolving and that this whole is both creator and creator in one. This All is ONE. There is nothing else that exist than ONE. Lets say this ONE has split itself up in finer parts and all parts are experiancing things and evolving in their own time and speed. Lets say some of these souls have discovered that they can connect to each other (and maybe the whole ONE) and be symbiotic with each other and act as one. Maybe even the ONE has a concious that is build up by all its parts (like a beehive with individual bees being parts of a whole). Lets say some of the souls in the universe have not understod to be symbiotic yeet but are instead parasitic (doing this they want to do inspite of concequences to every one else (due to their ego)).

When you drop your ego is the moment you realise that you are part of a whole (ONE).

So what is SATAN. He is soul that has risen himself over his fellow souls to tell them that he is right and they should do his will and serve him and not everybody in symbiosis. The parasite that weakens or kills the host. You can tell ONE what you think is right and worng and it will take what you think/tell under consideration or give you an answer to what ONE thinks.

So do satan exist. Yes. It is the ego in you that can make you do parasitic things because you do not know better or care. Even ONE uses the ones filled with ego to show how not to be.

So in my way of thinking ONE (god) "the whole" is a partly unhealthy diety with a personality dissorder that is trying to keep his healthy (souls that belive in symbiotic divene ideals) part away from the unhealthy part (souls that are lost in ego parasitic behaviour) (with a few exceptions when evolution is at stake).

So the only duality i belive in is devine symbiosis on one side and parasitic ego on the other side. There is no balance of ego vs symbiosis. It's either service to one/self/few from all or service to all from all. It is not two sides of the same coin. Your either on the symbiotic side or the parasitic. The endgoal is for god to be whole again and all souls (and matter and everything else) connected in devine symbiosis.

I love the fact that Big Bang works perfectly with this view. That was when the ONE splitt itself up.

It's is a theory. Ignore it if it do not fit and give me feedback if you can find any faults/questions that do not logicly fit. Like everything else. Theories are meant to evolve and be questioned.
edit on 27-3-2012 by apushforenlightment because: spellchecking

posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 03:47 PM
reply to post by NewAgeMan

"What does it profit a man to gain the whole world but lose his own soul (character, passion)"?

THANK YOU! Thank you for mentioning this.

What is there to gain in owning the world, all of its gold yours to take, every man yours to command, and every power yours to wield? To not fear death nor life, to feel no pain and enjoy every desire you could dream of, to wipe away the world with a breath, or create a new one with a word?

There is nothing. Gold would have no power, desire would have no pull, and life itself would have no meaning. To have everything is to have nothing at all.

posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 03:50 PM
reply to post by apushforenlightment

Satan is the word we use to express the negative aspect of life in general. We hate responsibility, so we invent blame. Then we use that blame to make Satan the villain in all that goes wrong.

Source (that is what I will call "god" from now on) is Satan. Satan is Source. There is nothing that exists...past, present, or future...that is not of the Source.

You don't understand? I don't expect you to. You're only human, and the Source is so much more than human...beyond human comprehension, ideals, understanding, words, and definition...

posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 03:52 PM
reply to post by Starchild23

Exactly, and I'm glad we have varied experiences and our own unique undividuality and that we are loved and accepted as we are ie: I'm happy to be me with you you, makes it interesting when each person's own spiritual or psychological experience is unique, yet one which can be made available as we wish, for sharing, and mutuality, that's the beauty.

Plus turning the devil into the joke of all ages, that's pretty cool too, like the icing on the cake that we can both have and eat as well.

Also, the will to power, is trumped by the will to meaning, purpose, and significance, and therefore life itself is an ever-unfolding story that, if we are only willing to laugh at ourselves, just keeps on getting better and better, even if we may wither away and die an old man!

"No eye has seen nor ear heard, nor the mind of man concieved, what God has in store for those who love him."
~ somewhere in the Bible, paraphrased a bit probably.

It gets better. All that's needed is our willingness and open-mindedness, and our own good-natured, mirthful charm and sense of humor as a human being, choosing to be a human being, right now, not because we have to, but because it's an honor and a priviledge, maybe even something we waited in line for..!

edit on 27-3-2012 by NewAgeMan because: (no reason given)

posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 03:57 PM
reply to post by NewAgeMan

This is the best part of not being a god...a god can do virtually anything, but humans will always have something to work toward.

Unfortunately, our current goal (in America) does not appear to be a utopian world. This disappoints me greatly, considering how close we could come to it.

posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 03:59 PM
reply to post by Starchild23

Yeah, and it peeves me off as well, because ours is surely not a throw away world, or our species just a flash in the pan, or destined for increasing lowliness... but that absurdity will bring itself to light as well, and some fine day future generations of enlightened people will look back and have a few laughs at our expense, I HOPE!

edit on 27-3-2012 by NewAgeMan because: language.. ; )

posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 04:04 PM
reply to post by NewAgeMan

Language, please. This is my thread, and I want to keep it civil, as stated before.

Also, I doubt the moderators would look kindly on it.

posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 09:00 PM

Originally posted by Starchild23
reply to post by bobs_uruncle

Don't you think giving money to churches teaches about generosity? That it also helps them pay for the property and the bills and services? That stuff isn't free, you know. It doesn't matter who you serve.

No, it teaches about extortion, the payment of something of alleged value against the fear of something nebulous and intangible. And really you have to remember, it's all about conversion and expanding the "flock." The bigger the "flock" the bigger the payday.

Would it be more efficient to bring people to church by paying them? Perhaps you want to teach them that money is more important than the message. There's a reason the donation basket isn't at the door.

Actually, it would be nice if money meant nothing, maybe we would have a society that wasn't dysfunctional. But really, we just need a good legal cap on power and greed, the church doesn't do much for that since they don't lead by example. Like Wall St and politics, organized religion is a money siphon. It really has no message other than control through emotional or mental terrorism. If you are looking to organized religion for moral steering, I suggest you use a common sense moral compass, at least it will hopefully prevent you from hitting the rocks, rather than organized religion which will more than likely steer you into them.

I think you are looking at it entirely the wrong way, and there's a deeper reason that you either aren't saying, or refuse to admit to yourself.

No, no deeper reason, I just see scams for what they are and organized religion is a scam imho, call me a cynic ;-) I've dealt with some of the best and worst people in life, some of the most intelligent and the mentally challenged (and the downright stupid). I've helped save people and I've helped show a few "the door" in the course of my duties. I've lived and worked where I was born and lived and worked as far as halfway around the globe, I've been a lot of places, I have nothing to prove, I can't be converted and I won't be assimilated. I'm just a guy. So, no deeper reason, you presume too much ;-)

Oh btw, I've been dead too, had to paddled back ;-) I'll never go to a military surgeon again LOL.

Cheers - Dave
edit on 3/27.2012 by bobs_uruncle because: (no reason given)

new topics

top topics

<<   2 >>

log in