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Reporting from Washington—
The Supreme Court's conservative justices Tuesday laid into the requirement in the Obama administration's healthcare law that Americans have health insurance, as the court began a much-anticipated second day of arguments on the controversial legislation.
Even before the administration's top lawyer could get three minutes into his defense of the mandate, some justices accused the government of pushing for excessive authority to require Americans to buy anything.
"Are there any limits," asked Justice Anthony Kennedy, one of three conservative justices whose votes are seen as crucial to the fate of the unprecedented insurance mandate.
Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. suggested that the government might require Americans to buy cellphones to be ready for emergencies. And Justice Antonin Scalia asked if the government might require Americans to buy broccoli or automobiles.
"If the government can do this, what else can it ... do?” Scalia asked.
The tough questioning of the administration's lawyer is no sure sign of how the justices will rule when they hand down their decision in the case, Department of Health and Human Services, et al., vs. State of Florida, et al., likely in June.
But Tuesday’s arguments may signal trouble for the mandate, widely seen as a cornerstone of the law's program for achieving universal healthcare coverage for the first time in the nation’s history.
Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
I am a health care worker, but never in the hospital is anyone denied care in the USA even if they have no insurance. I was in the same boat, I was not denied care!!
"If Justice Anthony M. Kennedy can locate a limiting principle in the federal government's defense of the new individual health insurance mandate, or can think of one on his own, the mandate may well survive. If he does, he may take Chief Justice John G. Roberts, Jr., along with him. But if he does not, the mandate is gone. maddowblog.msnbc.msn.com...
Originally posted by babybunnies
Many other countries have mandated health insurance.
We have it here in British Columbia, Canada. If you can't afford it, it is subsidized by the Government.
Everyone on social assistance gets free health care.
Basically, it helps the poorest members of our society have free health care, the rest of us pay about $65 a month. It covers basic hospital stays, some major surgeries, most minor surgeries.
People in BC don't end up having to sell their homes because they got sick.
Why do Americans think this is such a bad idea? Apart from Car Insurance (if you have a car) and Health Insurance, we don't get told that we have to join anything else, and we've had this for decades.
I was chatting with a stewardess on a quiet flight from the USA lately, and she was STUNNED at how much coverage we had and how little we pay.edit on 27-3-2012 by babybunnies because: (no reason given)
Under ObamaCare, a single committee—the United States Preventative Services Task Force—is empowered to evaluate preventive health services and decide which will be covered by health-insurance plans.
Originally posted by xuenchen
reply to post by jtma508
The "death panel" may be this:
Meet the ObamaCare Mandate Committee
It looks like a "grading" system exists !!
Under ObamaCare, a single committee—the United States Preventative Services Task Force—is empowered to evaluate preventive health services and decide which will be covered by health-insurance plans.
Unless this is all mis-information ?
In 2008, then presidential candidate Barack Obama was opposed to the individual mandate. He stated the following in a Feb. 28, 2008 interview on the Ellen DeGeneres show about his divergent views with Hillary Clinton:
"Both of us want to provide health care to all Americans. There’s a slight difference, and her plan is a good one. But, she mandates that everybody buy health care. She’d have the government force every individual to buy insurance and I don’t have such a mandate because I don’t think the problem is that people don’t want health insurance, it’s that they can’t afford it. So, I focus more on lowering costs. This is a modest difference. But, it’s one that she’s tried to elevate, arguing that because I don’t force people to buy health care that I’m not insuring everybody. Well, if things were that easy, I could mandate everybody to buy a house, and that would solve the problem of homelessness. It doesn’t."
1. Nov. 20, 1993
(date introduced) Consumer Choice Health Security Act (SB 1743) (624 KB) Sponsored by Senator Don Nickles (R-OK) & 24 Republican cosponsors
"Subtitle C: Employer Provisions - Requires employers to: (1) withhold health insurance premiums from employee wages and remit such premiums to the employee's chosen insurer; and (2) notify employees of their right to claim an advance refundable tax credit for such premiums."
2. Nov. 23, 1993
(date introduced) Health Equity and Access Reform Today Act (SB 1770) (1.6 MB) Sponsored by Senator John H. Chafee (R-RI) & 20 cosponsors (2-D, 18-R)
"Subtitle F: Universal Coverage - Requires each citizen or lawful permanent resident to be covered under a qualified health plan or equivalent health care program by January 1, 2005. Provides an exception for any individual who is opposed for religious reasons to health plan coverage, including those who rely on healing using spiritual means through prayer alone."
3. Jan. 18, 2007
(date introduced) Healthy Americans Act (SB 334) (427 KB) Sponsored by Senator Ron Wyden (D-OR) & 17 cosponsors (7-D, 1-I, 9-R)
"Healthy Americans Act - Requires each adult individual to have the opportunity to purchase a Healthy Americans Private Insurance Plan (HAPI). Makes individuals who are not enrolled in another specified health plan and who are not opposed to coverage for religious reasons responsible for enrolling themselves and their dependent children in a HAPI plan offered through their state of residence. Sets forth penalties for failure to enroll."
4. Feb. 5, 2009
(date introduced) Healthy Americans Act (SB 391) (394 KB) Sponsored by Senator Ron Wyden (D-OR) & 14 cosponsors (8-D, 1-I, 5-R)
"Healthy Americans Act - Requires each adult individual to have the opportunity to purchase a Healthy Americans Private Insurance Plan (HAPI), which is: (1) a plan offered by a state; or (2) an employer-sponsored health coverage plan. Makes individuals who are not enrolled in another specified health plan and who are not opposed to coverage for religious reasons responsible for enrolling themselves and their dependent children in a HAPI plan offered through their state of residence. Sets forth penalties for failure to enroll."
5. Dec. 24, 2009
(date passed) Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (HR 3590) (2.2 MB) No sponsors. Bill re-written by Senate Democrats. No Republican Senator voted for the bill. Read more.
"Subtitle F: Shared Responsibility for Health Care - Part I: Individual Responsibility - (Sec. 1501, as modified by section 10106) Requires individuals to maintain minimal essential health care coverage beginning in 2014. Imposes a penalty for failure to maintain such coverage beginning in 2014, except for certain low-income individuals who cannot afford coverage, members of Indian tribes, and individuals who suffer hardship. Exempts from the coverage requirement individuals who object to health care coverage on religious grounds, individuals not lawfully present in the United States, and individuals who are incarcerated."
Originally posted by David9176
Seriously, what great plan do you guys have other than to deny people healthcare? Lose your job and your insurance....suddenly have a heart attack? Do you believe we should tell these people to go F themselves and suffer...die???
And to you, I say: Do you believe we should tell our republic to go F itself and let the Constitution die?
Originally posted by David9176
reply to post by de Thor
And to you, I say: Do you believe we should tell our republic to go F itself and let the Constitution die?
This republic will die if we don't get healthcare costs under control.
Originally posted by hawkiye
It's ludicrous that this is even open for debate. it jut shows the ignorance and stupidity of the American sheeple. No one is denied medical treatment in America that is the big lie.
Originally posted by David9176
reply to post by de Thor
And to you, I say: Do you believe we should tell our republic to go F itself and let the Constitution die?
This republic will die if we don't get healthcare costs under control.
If the Mandate is found constitutional, presumably because it is found that the Interstate Commerce clause was intended to permit such laws, then the Constitution will be meaningless, as the fundamental division between the States and the Federal Government will be irretrievably lost.
I believe the Court will probably decide that the Mandate is NOT legal and the decision will, effectively, stand for the proposition that the Commerce Clause is NOT a General Tool Kit for the Congress to circumvent the intent of the Constitution in terms of the Federal Government being a government of limited, enumerated powers.
Accordingly, this will be the start of the unwinding of a long line of cases that (in my opinion) arrived at conclusions that consistently expanded the role of the Federal Government on the grounds that under the Commerce Clause it was intended. That is patently incorrect. The legislative history on the subject is clear. The decisions to expand were contorted and this Court is likely to decide that stare decisis notwithstanding, there must be a limit to the extension of erroneous decisions. For the identical reasons that Brown v. Board of Education correctly overturned Plessy v. Ferguson.
Today was likely a triumph for American constitutional representative democracy over the overreach of unprincipled progressivism. Do we need to improve the way health care is delivered in America? Of course we do. 'ObamaCare' was neither the substantive answer nor the procedural manner of financing. If this law was allowed to stand, there would be no limit to the mischief that would follow. The attitude was breathtaking. Remember Ms. Pelosi asking, rhetorically, 'are you kidding?' in response to the question 'is the law constitutional?' Ms. Pelosi had never given the question a second thought. She simply assumed she was the Speaker of the House and she was above such nonsense.
I agree, healthcare costs are outrageous right now. But I state emphatically, this is not the correct course!