Insane Michigan government announces plan to destroy ranch livestock based on hair color and arrest

In any time of crisis where food is in short supply,protein is the first thing to go.Hunting is one remedy but that only works if there is something put there big enough to justify using up calories and ammo to take

reply to post by hawkiye


As long as the inspecting farm agent isn't Zimmerman the pigs should be OK not to worry.
Those wild pigs should not be eliminated however as they are healthier by
natures own methods which the cartels would rather spend money on medicine
development and sales to sell by law to farmers. Its all a big government-cartel
racket like everything else in the US and World.

reply to post by Furbs


Um, excuse me?

I live in Michigan. Have most of my life. What governmental agencies do in my home state is my concern, same as anyone who lives here.

And maybe I'm wrong to think that eradicating domesticated animals is overkill when regulating could avoid the destruction of a family's livelihood while at the same time preventing the problems associated with wild pigs and other animals.

But I feel, in a country by the people for the people, there should be a public discourse when it comes to laws that may negatively affect private individuals. I guess that makes me crazy or something.

Is that too much to ask? Or should we just sit back and let things happen with no opportunity for discussion?

Although I'm not from Michigan (Minnesota native), I grew up on a family size farm. As long as I can remember, the government has been trying to eliminate the family farm, in one way or another over the years. Yes we raised hogs as food. I have never seen a feral hog, but do know something about this issue regardless. Even the white, pink domestic hogs will go feral within a very short time if it gets loose. It's not several generations, either, it's a much shorter time than that. And yes hogs do untold damage, even "domestic" ones, if they get into an area they shouldn't be.

I have worked on a commercial hog breeding farm, and yes they do use artificial insemination, not because of the weight of the hogs, but rather as a matter of convenience. I know exactly how the process works but will not describe it here, as I don't think it pertains to the subject. There are other aspects of this commercial practice that are in reality, quite dangerous, but no one ever talks about those issues.

What I don't yet understand, is why the laws that were currently in place,not enough? I would think that if one can shoot feral hogs at will, with the season being year 'round, that one could get control of the situation quite quickly. This smells to me of big hog farmers wanting the competition taken out, which is again, nothing new. They have been doing this since I can remember. It all comes down to GREED, as usual. When is enough money enough? You cannot take it with you, and you surely cannot spend beyond a certain amount. I would think that if you have a roof over your head, food on the table, and clothes on your back, you have enough.

This is just my personal opinion. Thank you for listening.

Originally posted by obilesk
reply to post by Furbs

 

Um, excuse me?

I live in Michigan. Have most of my life. What governmental agencies do in my home state is my concern, same as anyone who lives here.

And maybe I'm wrong to think that eradicating domesticated animals is overkill when regulating could avoid the destruction of a family's livelihood while at the same time preventing the problems associated with wild pigs and other animals.

But I feel, in a country by the people for the people, there should be a public discourse when it comes to laws that may negatively affect private individuals. I guess that makes me crazy or something.

Is that too much to ask? Or should we just sit back and let things happen with no opportunity for discussion?

Never have I known anyone to use the term MDNR to refer to the DNR unless that person was from out of state.

Also.. the discussion has been going on for over a decade.. where have you been?

If you would bother reading the Michigan law, you would see that it is speaking of WILD hogs and boars.

40.4 Additional prohibited species.
(1) Possession of the following live species, including a hybrid or genetic variant of the species, an
egg or offspring of the species or of a hybrid or genetically engineered variant, is prohibited:
(a) New Zealand mud snail (potamopyrgus antipodarum).
(b) Wild boar, wild hog, wild swine, feral pig, feral hog, feral swine, Old world swine, razorback,
eurasian wild boar, Russian wild boar (Sus scrofa Linnaeus). This subsection does not and is not
intended to affect sus domestica involved in domestic hog production.
(c) The department shall consult with staff from the Michigan department of agriculture on the
development of a phased compliance protocol for the implementation of this section.”

Notice where it says it excludes domestic hog production???

reply to post by SNutley


No one is actually in the truth, man. Come on!

I'm surprised Michigan doesn't make all the cattle join a union, THEN kill them because of their hair color.

Business idea for someone in Michigan: Mobile cattle hair color salon.

reply to post by Furbs



Well I apologize for using an extra letter to indicate the government agency to which I was referring, to a forum made up of people from all over the world.

As far this discussion going on for over a decade, I believe you, but please provide sources. And as far as I can tell, the decision was made effective June of 2011 - less than one year ago.

Ive just now become aware of the issue, because I read it here at ATS. Does that make my opinion less valid?

Should I get busy researching everything everywhere so that when an issue comes light at some point in the future I can say I already knew about it and that my opinion matters?

reply to post by obilesk


I am not going to do your research for you. I was part of the discussion 10 years ago, that's how I know it was happening. Sus has been a problem for a long time.

If you are going to give an opinion, get educated or you sound ignorant.

Do Gooder liberals using jack booted thugs to terrorize normal citizens....so what else is new?

reply to post by Furbs


I educated myself as best I could in the time I had. If it's true that people are not being responsible with their livestock and allowing these animals to roam feral, then I will gladly revise my opinion.

I do not mind being labeled ignorant, as that tells me that I must have more to learn. I would greatly appreciate some advice on where to go to get the information that you say is out there; is that so much to ask of a fellow forum member?

If I just google the issue, I get a bunch of hits that are all conflicting. A little help on where to get legitimate information is all I am asking. Thank you!

Originally posted by SNutley
If you would bother reading the Michigan law, you would see that it is speaking of WILD hogs and boars.

40.4 Additional prohibited species.
(1) Possession of the following live species, including a hybrid or genetic variant of the species, an
egg or offspring of the species or of a hybrid or genetically engineered variant, is prohibited:
(a) New Zealand mud snail (potamopyrgus antipodarum).
(b) Wild boar, wild hog, wild swine, feral pig, feral hog, feral swine, Old world swine, razorback,
eurasian wild boar, Russian wild boar (Sus scrofa Linnaeus). This subsection does not and is not
intended to affect sus domestica involved in domestic hog production.
(c) The department shall consult with staff from the Michigan department of agriculture on the
development of a phased compliance protocol for the implementation of this section.”

Notice where it says it excludes domestic hog production???

if you had read the thread and watched the video and read the regulation more carefully you would realize you are not the first person to post a knee jerk response like this which is is dead wrong!

reply to post by obilesk


Michigan.gov has loads of resources to help. The search function isn't the greatest, but it should start you down the right path.


Here is a paper written in 2006 discussing concerns over disease and feral pigs. I dealt with them quite a bit. My brother takes a pistol out into Roscommon County and shoots them every chance he gets. They aren't all that good to eat, but every one that is gone allows for more room for the Whitetails to rebound.

www.michigan.gov...

Happy hunting.

reply to post by hawkiye


Would love your take on how someone merely posting what the law actually says is wrong.

reply to post by Furbs


Star for you. Thanks.

Quick question: Are any people you know of raising any of these species (or species with any of the physical characteristics mentioned in the law) near you?

reply to post by obilesk


Full disclosure, I live in Portland, OR, although I keep in regular contact with my family, all of which are still in Michigan.

I do not know of any people currently farming swine that are being affected by this law. However, I do know a man in Standish named Larry Foco that does farm domesticated sus. The last time I talked to him, he was happy that the wild sus were going to be eradicated because they cause damage to his farm trying to get into his pens when his sows are in estrous.

Originally posted by Furbs
reply to post by hawkiye

 

Would love your take on how someone merely posting what the law actually says is wrong.

edit on 28-3-2012 by Furbs because: (no reason given)

Try reading the whole regulation instead of just an out of context snip and the numerous posts in this thread already explaining it. As you have said to others do your own research or you just look ignorant. By the way it is not a law it is a policy there is no law involved.

So according to michigan.gov , (thank you member Furbs), these specific species are not just getting out and breeding and destroying property, but are also susceptible to many diseases that can be transmitted cross-species (i.e. pig to human and so on).

This would lead to scientifically-approved swine being affected by these diseases, rendering them unsafe for consumption and worse still: sickness in humans.

The document also expresses real concern about disease that meet the definition of "feral".

From the document:

UNQUANTIFIABLE BUT REAL SOCIAL COSTS

The Productivity Commission of the Australian Government (2002) has identified the social impacts of severe disease outbreaks and they include the following from lower livestock prices and FMD control measures.

-Financial losses cause attendant social and mental stresses for farmers, their families, neighbors, suppliers, and communities.

-Elimination of livestock as part of disease control would prove traumatic for farmers and their families who’s whole lives are invested in the animals.

-Quarantine and buffer control areas would result in the loss of control for livestock owners in the operation of their farms and their daily lives. This would add to feelings of anxiety, grief, hopelessness, anger, and frustration.

-Emergency service personnel may face extraordinary pressures because of the long hours and shared trauma from implementing eradication activities and enforcing quarantines.

-Disruption a family routines and school and cancellation of recreational activities would increase travel times and reduction in normal social interactions.

-Stress would increase health and mental disorders, suicide and alcohol and drug abuse.

So after this research, I will clarify my original statement of regulation over eradication. Eradication of potentially harmful species seems to be the best answer, yet what of those that have been raising these species for years with no problems? Along with this solution, there should, at least, be some compensation to those who are acting responsibly in their raising of swine to provide a living. Just going in and destroying a family's livestock with no recompense is unacceptable in my lowly opinion.

Replace the species that these people are raising with acceptable livestock and then we can all live happily ever after. Or is that oversimplifying things?

reply to post by obilesk


Don't believe everything you read. It is factory farming that has the problems with disease not farmers raising animals more naturally and or organically.