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Christian doctrines vs scripture

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posted on Apr, 13 2012 @ 04:09 PM
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reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff
 



One false teacher in the midst doesn't mean an entire denomination believes or prohibits such a thing as worship although the prebyts might. I'm not a presbyt and don't know their creed so I can't judge but I do know for sure Missionary Baptists don't prohibit worship in any form. It is true that we must keep watch for certain wolfs in sheep's clothing who teach the doctrines of men as God's commandment, but too, I haven't found a commandment to worship God in all 7 styles.


Do you mean "not to" worship Him in all 7 ways?

Well that's why I said "Baptists" too because he was going on and on about musical instruments used for worship (Psalm 150) and "dancing in the house of God".

Which are types of Davidic praise and worship with their own Hebrew words that's used in the Psalms. lol I've heard it all dude in my days, here and in other Christian forums. I've heard EVERYTHING once, most stuff numerous times.

Perhaps this dude wasn't a "Missionary Baptist", I don't know what kind he was, perhaps you know better. I don't do denominational Christianity anymore. Brethren and Reformed Presbyterian turned me off to that, and I like Charismatic churches, but some Pentecostals go nuts un-Biblically in the opposite direction. Just give me non-denominational Apostolic Christianity. That's it, with Jesus leading the church. lol


edit on 13-4-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)




posted on Apr, 14 2012 @ 09:05 AM
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The adam and eve story is a catch-22

Before they ate from the tree of knowledge they didn`t know right from wrong,good from evil. They didn`t know that it was wrong to disobey god. When they ate from the tree of knowledge they didn`t know that they were doing something wrong because they couldn`t comprehend the whole concept of right/wrong, good/evil. It was only after eating from the tree that they gained the knowledge that it was wrong to disobey god.



posted on Apr, 14 2012 @ 10:11 AM
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reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff
 

But you don't believe such a thing because you don't accept Jesus as messiah, no?
Who are you talking about?

Do you believe it is God's will that the Holy Spirit in us should lead us to hate our brothers unto eradication?
I'm talking about the "eradication" of the fiction of a zionist state. They are the ones eradicating actual people.
edit on 14-4-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 14 2012 @ 10:20 AM
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reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff
 

Nothing I have read would lead me to believe these men whose hearts were far from Christ ever exhibited power through the Holy Spirit, but only of their own devices did they show forth "miracles" in order to gain the praise of men in the subversion of the name of God.
Well, what are you reading? If I was reading apparently what you are reading, I would wonder if they are being misleading in order to not undermine some theory of salvation that will not withstand the clear teaching of the Bible.
People can get up and preach stuff that seems completely legitimate as far as being orthodox theology, and others, listening can benefit from hearing it, because of the work of the spirit which can take that hearing of the word, and make it into understanding. All the while the person saying those things could be living a secret second life filled with debauchery, and end up not being saved by the same words he was earlier speaking.
edit on 14-4-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 14 2012 @ 10:25 AM
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reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff
 

. . . will only lead to your life and heart being filled with anxiety and hatred and bitterness . . .

So your solution is to throw your support behind evil because it seems to be what everyone else is doing, and then you can sit back and feel peaceful. I don't see that as a viable solution, having war and death fall onto others for the sake of your feelings.



posted on Apr, 14 2012 @ 10:30 AM
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reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff
 

So you want the descendant's of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Israel) evicted from Canaan not eradicated?
I'm talking about ending Apartheid.
The Palestinians are basically the descendants of Abraham.
The white, European Jews immigrating from Germany and Russia and other countries can not trace their ancestry to anyone actually from Palestine, but Caucasian people who adopted the Jewish religion.



posted on Apr, 16 2012 @ 12:05 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff
 



One false teacher in the midst doesn't mean an entire denomination believes or prohibits such a thing as worship although the prebyts might. I'm not a presbyt and don't know their creed so I can't judge but I do know for sure Missionary Baptists don't prohibit worship in any form. It is true that we must keep watch for certain wolfs in sheep's clothing who teach the doctrines of men as God's commandment, but too, I haven't found a commandment to worship God in all 7 styles.


Do you mean "not to" worship Him in all 7 ways?

I find no law commanding worship in all 7 ways. According to my understanding we worship according to the Spirit in us and not according to edict. There is no need to enforce a law requiring worship upon we who sing His praises because it is in our hearts to do so. I'm not saying that worshiping in all 7 styles is not good, I simply find no evidence that we are not accepted if we don't dance our clothes off or play an instrument.


Well that's why I said "Baptists" too because he was going on and on about musical instruments used for worship (Psalm 150) and "dancing in the house of God".

Which are types of Davidic praise and worship with their own Hebrew words that's used in the Psalms. lol I've heard it all dude in my days, here and in other Christian forums. I've heard EVERYTHING once, most stuff numerous times.


I feel it is a shame when service becomes about being religious and not about Jesus. Personally, I find the whole music thing with "white Baptists" to be more dogma than doctrine. And dancing?
visit a "black Baptist" service if you think all Baptists refuse dancing during worship. An older generation with much different musical preferences has heretofore been in charge. I like to sing hymns with just a piano where the musical instrument of the voice is the predominant sound but I also like "rockin out to Jesus" such as I found in the college worship setting. It's all fine by me. I like them both but I don't find it necessary to relegate ourselves to just one or the other. It is all just preference and I find good in both.



Perhaps this dude wasn't a "Missionary Baptist", I don't know what kind he was, perhaps you know better. I don't do denominational Christianity anymore. Brethren and Reformed Presbyterian turned me off to that, and I like Charismatic churches, but some Pentecostals go nuts un-Biblically in the opposite direction. Just give me non-denominational Apostolic Christianity. That's it, with Jesus leading the church. lol


edit on 13-4-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)


I don't agree with denominations either. I find it to be an unnecessary division that scripture warns us against but I don't let it get in my way when discussing what really matters, the Grace of our Father and Love of our Savior. I say let Jesus lead as well.





edit on 16-4-2012 by HeFrippedMeOff because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 16 2012 @ 12:17 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff
 

But you don't believe such a thing because you don't accept Jesus as messiah, no?
Who are you talking about?


I'm talking about you and your relationship with Jesus the Christ of God who allowed himself to be crucified on a cross that he might become sin for us whereby through the grace of our Father we might be saved through faith in His one and only begotten Son.

You said, "If someone would hypothetically not know about Jesus, then God's will would be for that person to come to know Jesus. Someone who knows Jesus already, then Jesus points that person along a road to proper living. If that person ignores that direction then they are going against the will of God. "

I said, "But you don't believe such a thing because you don't accept Jesus as messiah, no?

And your reply is now......?




Do you believe it is God's will that the Holy Spirit in us should lead us to hate our brothers unto eradication?
I'm talking about the "eradication" of the fiction of a zionist state. They are the ones eradicating actual people.
edit on 14-4-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)


Your opinion may be that Zion shouldn't exist but it is not a fiction that Israel is a real living breathing people. Both sides are killing each other. It's not a one way street so stop hiding behind excuses and answer my question, do you honestly believe it is God's will that the Holy Spirit in us should lead us to hate our brothers unto eradication?



posted on Apr, 16 2012 @ 12:37 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff
 

Nothing I have read would lead me to believe these men whose hearts were far from Christ ever exhibited power through the Holy Spirit, but only of their own devices did they show forth "miracles" in order to gain the praise of men in the subversion of the name of God.
Well, what are you reading? If I was reading apparently what you are reading, I would wonder if they are being misleading in order to not undermine some theory of salvation that will not withstand the clear teaching of the Bible.


Like I said, these people who are subverting a real heart of faith for works intentionally misleading and misrepresenting the truth in scripture. I said it before and I'll say it again, it's all about our heart's condition and Jesus knows.


People can get up and preach stuff that seems completely legitimate as far as being orthodox theology, and others, listening can benefit from hearing it, because of the work of the spirit which can take that hearing of the word, and make it into understanding. All the while the person saying those things could be living a secret second life filled with debauchery, and end up not being saved by the same words he was earlier speaking.
edit on 14-4-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)


Scripture warns against being a hearer and not a doer. It warns against teaching and not obeying. Scripture also tells us that all sins will be forgiven except for blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. We even have the thief on the cross as an example. Nevertheless, I don't know the hypothetical man's heart of whom you speak and I'm not the one to judge but if you desire clarity according to the most accurate word for word translation we have, pick up the kjv or interlinear bible and we will be reading the same thing or you could simply give your heart to Christ and let love reign in your life fulfilling all the law without ever reading one word of scripture.



posted on Apr, 16 2012 @ 01:06 PM
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reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff
 

I said, "But you don't believe such a thing because you don't accept Jesus as messiah, no?

And your reply is now......?
I'm not about to OK your personal list of dogma you have formulated into a creed.
That is your business, and don't go enforcing your creed on my as some test of orthodoxy.
I find your approach very distasteful but it seems to go along with your authoritative adherence to some literal attachment with Old Testament mythology, something I reject.
I am not about to endorse any of your beliefs whatsoever because they are all tainted with a spirit of profound evil which I do not continence.
I believe in Jesus who knew God, but the real God, which those he met in Jerusalem did not know.
edit on 16-4-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 16 2012 @ 01:07 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff
 

. . . will only lead to your life and heart being filled with anxiety and hatred and bitterness . . .

So your solution is to throw your support behind evil because it seems to be what everyone else is doing, and then you can sit back and feel peaceful. I don't see that as a viable solution, having war and death fall onto others for the sake of your feelings.


No Dewey, you called for the eradication of a people according to your feelings. You have thrown your support behind the demise of your brethren for vain entitlements. There is no evil in Love or Christ. The burden of this World is heavy and in it there is no rest. Make peace with our Father before it is too late. He did not create you as a vessel for the carrying around of hatred and bitterness. You don't have to be friends with the World and you don't have to go along with it in murder just because it seems everyone else is. I wish you peace and joy, Dewey, but you will never find it in friendship with this World.



posted on Apr, 16 2012 @ 01:10 PM
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reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff
 


I don't disagree with anything you said, just wanting to point out that I wasn't claiming there IS a command to worship in all ways. But condemning traditions of the elders that PREVENT their congregation from doing so.

We are on the same page.



posted on Apr, 16 2012 @ 01:42 PM
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reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff
 

. . . you called for the eradication of a people . . .

Now you are being downright dishonest seeing how I already denied that to you twice.
I said Israel, while explaining that I mean the fiction of a zionist state, not the people.
I said they could apply for citizenship to the state of Palestine.



posted on Apr, 16 2012 @ 02:01 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff
 

So you want the descendant's of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Israel) evicted from Canaan not eradicated?
I'm talking about ending Apartheid./


What? You want to end apartheid by committing genocide? You want to end segregation according to race, caste, etc by removing an entire race of peoples from the land?


The Palestinians are basically the descendants of Abraham.

Basically?

Do you yet say "basically" because the Palestinians are the children of Ishmael and not Isaac the son of promise?

And regardless, is this any reason to want you brothers dead and/or gone from your presence? If we yet be sons of Abraham in the flesh and not sons of God in spirit then what reward have we?



The white, European Jews immigrating from Germany and Russia and other countries can not trace their ancestry to anyone actually from Palestine, but Caucasian people who adopted the Jewish religion.


Stop hiding. Not being able to trace lineage doesn't mean they are not of the lineage of Abraham. Even the two tribes in Joseph were scattered abroad but regardless, you have not called for the eradication of only these adopted peoples but of Israel as a whole which is not just a religion but an entire race of Hebrews.

What is your final solution here, Dewey?



posted on Apr, 16 2012 @ 02:08 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff
 

I said, "But you don't believe such a thing because you don't accept Jesus as messiah, no?

And your reply is now......?
I'm not about to OK your personal list of dogma you have formulated into a creed.
That is your business, and don't go enforcing your creed on my as some test of orthodoxy.
I find your approach very distasteful but it seems to go along with your authoritative adherence to some literal attachment with Old Testament mythology, something I reject.
I am not about to endorse any of your beliefs whatsoever because they are all tainted with a spirit of profound evil which I do not continence.
I believe in Jesus who knew God, but the real God, which those he met in Jerusalem did not know.
edit on 16-4-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)


Judge yourself, Dewey, and writhe in willful ignorance if that's you want but know that there will be no rest.

P.s. Jesus wasn't and isn't just some good prophet. In actuality, according to his very own words you either believe him and accept that he is the son of God slain for the sins of the world or he is a liar and crazy heretic. It's one or the other.



posted on Apr, 16 2012 @ 02:13 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff
 

But condemning traditions of the elders that PREVENT their congregation from doing so.



Seconded



posted on Apr, 16 2012 @ 02:15 PM
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reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff
 

And regardless, is this any reason to want you brothers dead and/or gone from your presence?

I have no idea how you get this from anything I wrote.
I have to imagine that your zeal for partisanship drives you to see things that are not there but imagine is some secret motive behind anyone not of your party.

. . . you have not called for the eradication of only these adopted peoples but of Israel as a whole which is not just a religion but an entire race of Hebrews.

What is your final solution here, Dewey?
Yes, "Israel" as a whole must die! I mean that as a political entity, which pretends to be a "state" but which is nothing but the criminal enterprise of pirates who murder the rightful inhabitants of the land and steal their property as their won.
There should no longer be given immunity from the laws that every legitimate country is forced to adhere to.
There is no "race of Hebrews".
If they want to apply as legal immigrants to Palestine, then they should do that, to the legal and democratic state of Palestine. That is my solution. You can slander me all you want but you will have to face judgment before God for your acquiescence to evil acts.
edit on 16-4-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 16 2012 @ 02:31 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff
 

. . . you called for the eradication of a people . . .

Now you are being downright dishonest seeing how I already denied that to you twice.
I said Israel, while explaining that I mean the fiction of a zionist state, not the people.
I said they could apply for citizenship to the state of Palestine.


You're calling for Israel to denounce their identity and birthright for the acceptance of Islam's God and Ishmael's preeminence. You know very well this will not and cannot happen. Why do you refuse the Hebrew people their human rights to live at peace and serve their God in the land of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob?



posted on Apr, 16 2012 @ 02:36 PM
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reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff
 

Jesus wasn't and isn't just some good prophet. In actuality, according to his very own words you either believe him and accept that he is the son of God slain for the sins of the world or he is a liar and crazy heretic. It's one or the other.
He is also no Canaanite king. Jesus was one of us, a man, who was filled with the Holy Spirit to preach the word of God. He was numbered with the sinners according to the rulers of the governing party in place at the time in Jerusalem, and vindicated by God by raising him from the dead. We can share in his son-ship which he enjoys with God, and live in the hope of being resurrected into bodies like his that will not see corruption.
I'm sorry you got conned into a fake religion that was invented by the people who wanted to create Israel and to maintain support for it during its time of transformation into a monster of genocide and ethnic cleansing.
edit on 16-4-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 16 2012 @ 02:46 PM
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reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff
 

You're calling for Israel to denounce their identity and birthright for the acceptance of Islam's God and Ishmael's preeminence. You know very well this will not and cannot happen. Why do you refuse the Hebrew people their human rights to live at peace and serve their God in the land of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob?
Whoever believes in that sort of thing can bring up that argument before the immigration board when they apply for a visa into Palestine. Of course this is in my best-case scenario of my proposed solution. The reality will probably be lots more murder before they ever think of trying something peaceful, as long as there are deluded 'Christians' in America who believe in that fiction, and will support the bloodshed in God's name.
edit on 16-4-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



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