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Christian doctrines vs scripture

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posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 02:37 PM
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reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff
 



No offence taken. The Lord values the meek, quiet spirit of worship as much as he adores hands lifted high and joyful noises. Even still, when we know not for what we should pray as we ought, the Spirit himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.


I didn't say He didn't, of course He does. Let me rephrase, they only teach 1 of the 7 types of Davidic praise and worship. The one you speak of is just 1 of the 7. And the problem is, in Psalms all 7 Hebrew words are translated "praise" in English.

That's the issue brother. I'm not knocking the quiet reverent praise and worship whatsoever, I apologize for wording it poorly earlier.

When i said "They don't teach the 7.." I should have said "They don't teach all 7, and rail against the other 6."




edit on 12-4-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)




posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 02:53 PM
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reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff
 

Do you support the eradication of the Israeli people?

Of course! Meaning the concept of a state based on a religion, which steals the land they live on and kills its rightful owners.
"Israel" is a fiction, and they should all have to apply for citizenship as Palestinians.

This fleshly life is not all there is . . .
This sounds like "kill them all, and let God sort them out."
So you actually do support murder.
No wonder you do not like the idea of a future judgment.

Regardless, God's judgment wherever it be, is righteous whether we think so or not.
So Jews murdering Palestinians is actually God's judgment in action?
edit on 12-4-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 02:59 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff
 

You have your panties in a jihad about semantics, Dewey. We will stand before the Great White throne (in reve after the thousand year reign) but not in condemnation. That's all I know to tell you.
It's not just semantics.
What you are claiming is the refutation of the clear teaching of the Bible that everyone will be judged, in favor of a teaching from a cult telling you what you do in this life is of no concern because all you need to do is call on Jesus.


The argument over the word "judgment" is semantics because you don't consider "condemnation" as being synonymous. I tried to meet you halfway as again I will be we must exercise some understanding of judgment/condemnation. Paul in Romans 14 makes mention that we will appear before the judgment seat of Christ (not the GWToJ). Every knee will bow to him, and every tongue will confess God. So then everyone of us will give account of himself to God but if our account to God be "Christ Jesus) in spirit and truth then where judgment in condemnation once was, now there is forgiveness of sins.


Also, I never said that we can do whatever we want and then call on Jesus. Romans 6 is clear that Grace is not an occasion for sin. The Lord knows our heart whether it be changed by Christ or rooted in sin.



This theory is refuted by Jesus in Mathew 7 where many will be claiming that but will be turned away because the only people who will be allowed to enter the kingdom is those who do the will of the Father. That is further defined when he says to the lawless person to begone.


The will of the Father for salvation and forgiveness of sin is more explicitly defined in John 3:16 that we believe on His son for eternal life.



You deflect it by saying that the person is claiming his own works. What he was claiming was calling on his name, while the righteousness required to have in order to enter had been neglected, thinking that a relationship with Jesus was all that was needed.
edit on 12-4-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)


The relationship was never there. Jesus himself says that their hearts were far from him. You neglect the fullness of Jesus Word in the particular scripture you reference. These people thought their works were all they needed apart from giving their hearts to him in faith.
edit on 12-4-2012 by HeFrippedMeOff because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 03:14 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by HeFrippedMeOff

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff
 



Actually in the parable they do awaken and have oil to light their lamp but have no extra crux of oil wherewith to continue watching throughout the night. Oil is symbolic of the Holy Spirit (atmu) and not all have faith unto watching and waiting for the return of Christ. Go out and ask some Christians what they hope for? Do they want Jesus to come sooner than later. You may be surprised. Nevertheless, many will be caught unaware.


Yes, it is symbolic of the Holy Spirit, but not in all cases. The context here is they are not prepared to leave like the other VIRGINS are. They didn't expect Him to return for them that night.

Both groups are "virgins", that should be the hint.


I don't understand what your contention is. The harpazo isn't the culmination of everyone who will eventually be saved; nor is the harpazo the culmination of all those who have ever possessed the holy spirit. It's a special gift for those who actually want it enough to believe in scripture and watch. Again, what is your contention with me?


We agree with all that. It was your implication that those who didn't have the "oil" didn't have the Holy Spirit. Did I read that wrong? Not all usages of the term "oil" means Holy Spirit, the lesson here is some are looking and watching and waiting expectantly, some are not.

Both groups are justified and have the Holy Spirit. Check out Peter's speech in Acts 15. The Holy Spirit is the evidence of salvation.


edit on 12-4-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)


Be careful with inferences and perceived implications. They'll lead you into contentions and divisions that don't exist and don't edify. It's a wonder I didn't understand
. You essentially just put words in my mouth. Nevertheless, as I said before, the harpazo is not the entirety of all that are to be redeemed. I really think we are in one accord here.



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 03:35 PM
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reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff
 



The understanding is that there are more important things than the lust of the flesh and the vanity of materialism that so easily entangles our minds and hearts.

I care nothing for 'materialism'...I have two healthy adult children, and a husband and mother (widow) and my pets, and my garden and yard, and laughter, and peace of mind, and my own health. I am able to be alone contentedly....to sleep soundly, to argue for the acceptance and justice of all humankind (notwithstanding the ongoing assaults of certain "Christian" proselytizers)....the glorious beauty of this planet...creativity, curiosity, an energy to live life to its fullest. I am happy. I know myself. I know what life has offered me; and what the life to come will be.

I am content that when this body dies, all will be well for me.
I neither hasten it, nor fear it.
'Lust' has nothing to do with it. I have passed through menopause, and been successively educated (through academia and personal experience) into the 'human condition'....

'lust of the flesh'??? Like, eating, merriment, thought, rest, love, kindness, generosity, contribution?

whatever...nothing wrong with it. The Divine did not put us here to suffer excruciating pain (unless that is what we've earned by karma and have agreed to before this life-birth)...but to learn the joys of earthly existence, connect it to the Divine that we are all a part of, and rejoice, day by day....moment by moment....that we had this opportunity. We will weep, and suffer, yes. But we will also experience ecstatic joy, and priceless experiences.

But you go ahead with your fatalistic gloom. I'll go my way, thanks.






edit on 12-4-2012 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 03:38 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


wildtimes, you sound like a very pleasant woman,

but you must understand why I vehemently disagree with your words on here,

it is because of the seeds you are planting,

you are planting seeds in peoples minds saying Jesus Christ is not God, and He was not resurrected, which is in effect causing confusion and deception to be spread, which will have a ripple effect on people

I am here to combat your false views and the rumors you try to propagate, and to stand for Truth

I am not here and have never been here to condemn you, and if you feel I have done so, please forgive my transgression as I forgive yours
edit on 4/12/2012 by Iason321 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 03:40 PM
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reply to post by Iason321
 



you are planting seeds in peoples minds saying Jesus Christ is not God,

No, I am not.
I believe he was a human who came with a perfected spirit, sent by the Divine source, to teach.

You persist in misinterpreting and slandering me. That's your bad. Not mine.

I have never, ever denied his absolute connection to the Divine in the first degree.



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 03:41 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


That's not true though.

He did not have a connection to the divine, he was not a good teacher, he was not a perfected soul.

He WAS and He IS the Divine Being you are speaking of!

In the flesh!!



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 03:41 PM
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reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff
 

Paul in Romans 14 makes mention that we will appear before the judgment seat of Christ (not the GWToJ).
Of course Paul was not talking about the GWT since that is a fictionalized version of judgment in Revelation, not written by Paul, and not something recognized by Paul. Meaning, Paul makes no mention of it, or quote from it.



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 03:44 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


Let me ask you something,

If you TRULY believe that Christ walked the earth, and was an "enlightened soul" ask yourself this: How do you even know Jesus Christ? How do you even know his message?

Think about how his message got spread, how it got spread, and why it got spread.

Now ask yourself this: The ENTIRE NT (Yes, every last stinkin letter of it) is 100% dependent upon the resurrection and Lordship of Jesus the Christ. If the ENTIRE NT is not true, than NONE of it is! You would NOT know the name Jesus Christ, if He was not God and He did not do what he did!

I can't stress enough the grave misunderstandings you yourself are buying into!

For the Love of God and the sake of Love itself wildtimes, why dont you pray to "spirit" or "Source" to reveal Itself as being Jesus the Christ to your heart?

Please understand why I disagree with what you say on here so much!!!!



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 03:52 PM
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Originally posted by HeFrippedMeOff

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by HeFrippedMeOff

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff
 



Actually in the parable they do awaken and have oil to light their lamp but have no extra crux of oil wherewith to continue watching throughout the night. Oil is symbolic of the Holy Spirit (atmu) and not all have faith unto watching and waiting for the return of Christ. Go out and ask some Christians what they hope for? Do they want Jesus to come sooner than later. You may be surprised. Nevertheless, many will be caught unaware.


Yes, it is symbolic of the Holy Spirit, but not in all cases. The context here is they are not prepared to leave like the other VIRGINS are. They didn't expect Him to return for them that night.

Both groups are "virgins", that should be the hint.


I don't understand what your contention is. The harpazo isn't the culmination of everyone who will eventually be saved; nor is the harpazo the culmination of all those who have ever possessed the holy spirit. It's a special gift for those who actually want it enough to believe in scripture and watch. Again, what is your contention with me?


We agree with all that. It was your implication that those who didn't have the "oil" didn't have the Holy Spirit. Did I read that wrong? Not all usages of the term "oil" means Holy Spirit, the lesson here is some are looking and watching and waiting expectantly, some are not.

Both groups are justified and have the Holy Spirit. Check out Peter's speech in Acts 15. The Holy Spirit is the evidence of salvation.



Be careful with inferences and perceived implications. They'll lead you into contentions and divisions that don't exist and don't edify. It's a wonder I didn't understand
. You essentially just put words in my mouth. Nevertheless, as I said before, the harpazo is not the entirety of all that are to be redeemed. I really think we are in one accord here.


Then this was poorly worded, and now I see what you tried to say:


He speaks of the day the "virgins" are called out and only five wise have filled their lamps with oil (the holy spirit) whereas the others miss the Groom's return because they are out trying to find oil for their lamps in that midnight hour.


They are out looking for Him to return again in the streets, oil signifies looking expectantly for Him to return, view it in that context since all born again have the Holy Spirit indwelling them. I know oil is symbolic for the Holy Spirit, but oil is also fuel for a lamp to see. So not all the time is it a reference to the Holy Spirit. If it was then Elijah had a poor woman selling the Holy Spirit in the OT.

Thanks for the chance to sharpen my iron, not mad at you brother at all, I like to sharpen.



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 03:53 PM
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reply to post by Iason321
 



but you must understand why I vehemently disagree with your words on here,

it is because of the seeds you are planting,

seeds of calm, happiness, patience, tolerance, endurance, and compassion.

Whenever someone makes a statement and then says "but", it negates the statement. I am no longer concerned with your attacks. You plant your seeds, I'll plant mine.

Mine are those of calm, happiness, acceptance, adequacy, and eternal life, while enjoying the life we are given.

Yours are......
???
Oh, right. *slaps forehead* that I'm a demon and must be shushed or made to look insane, and that 'new-age-hippy-love-BS' MUST be dismissed as nonsense.

You go ahead and judge and bear false witness against me all you like, Iason. I'm not concerned about it. You are neither the boss, priest, father, judge, keeper, mouthpiece, tutor, or anything else of me.

I suspect you are very young (perhaps younger than my eldest child) in body, AND in soul (definitely younger than my eldest child), and have had very limited exposure to the things I have explored, considered, and spent years soul-searching.

Your opinion of me makes no difference to anything that matters. Even more so because you refuse to disclose your fabulous and indisputable 'source' of knowledge.



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 03:54 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff
 



No offence taken. The Lord values the meek, quiet spirit of worship as much as he adores hands lifted high and joyful noises. Even still, when we know not for what we should pray as we ought, the Spirit himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.


I didn't say He didn't, of course He does. Let me rephrase, they only teach 1 of the 7 types of Davidic praise and worship. The one you speak of is just 1 of the 7. And the problem is, in Psalms all 7 Hebrew words are translated "praise" in English.

That's the issue brother. I'm not knocking the quiet reverent praise and worship whatsoever, I apologize for wording it poorly earlier.

When i said "They don't teach the 7.." I should have said "They don't teach all 7, and rail against the other 6."


Have I railed against the other 6 or do you rail against those who have not all 7? Because I don't speak in tongues does that mean I am inadequate? Is the ear not important because it is not the foot or the nose because it is not the hand? Have we not all been given a measure of faith? Are we not all parts working in conjunction praying and edifying one another in the areas where one may lack?


Perhaps we should just stop with the generalities altogether







edit on 12-4-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-4-2012 by HeFrippedMeOff because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 03:57 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


When have I ever claimed to have some secret source of knowledge?

I just happen to know the Truth, and I repeat that here.

Spreading love and peace and compassion is great, but spreading the Gospel of Christ is just as imporant, Christ IS Love and Peace, when people deny Him, they are open to all sorts of deception,

You do not see the harm in telling people who believe in Christ that the entire Bible is false, and that Christ is not the risen savior, and that there faith is futile?

I see that as planting negative seeds, theres nothing positive about denying Christs Godhood



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 03:57 PM
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reply to post by Iason321
 



For the Love of God and the sake of Love itself wildtimes, why dont you pray to "spirit" or "Source" to reveal Itself as being Jesus the Christ to your heart?

I have, and do, every day, every night, every moment.

For the Love of God and the sake of Love itself, Iason, why don't you lay off of me?

I grow weary of your (and others') attacks and slanderings. You don't know me, and refuse to do so. Your efforts to discredit me have already convinced me that the seeds I am planting are extremely important. Your insults and attacks are useless, and the more you persist, the more you fail in your own doctrine.



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 03:59 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


That's good and you seem to have quite a close connection with the Spirit,

but still, I cannot stand idly by whilst you tell people Christ has not risen.

I MUST stand for truth, I pray you could see this.



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 04:00 PM
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reply to post by Iason321
 



You do not see the harm in telling people who believe in Christ that the entire Bible is false, and that Christ is not the risen savior, and that there faith is futile?

I have not done that.

I have upheld the actual teachings of Christ at every turn and will continue to do so, with or without your 'approval.'
The Bible is a manufactured compilation of writings by others.
What Jesus actually said is all that matters.

When have I ever claimed to have some secret source of knowledge?

I just happen to know the Truth, and I repeat that here.

Oh, so....you know the Truth and repeat that here, but have no secret source of knowledge?
A bit contradictory, no?
Whatever, Iason. I suggest looking inside yourself to dig out the source of your fear and closed-mindedness.
You have yet to indicate or explain the 'source' or 'moment of revelation' that has so enlightened you to "happening to know the Truth". Your interpretation is not superior to mine.


edit on 12-4-2012 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 04:03 PM
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reply to post by Iason321
 



I MUST stand for truth,


IF this is true... why do you claim him to be God... when he said no such thing...

You make an idol of his carcass... and call him a liar in the process...

Read his words and find truth...




posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 04:04 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


What Jesus actually said, was that He was God, and that He was The Way The Truth and the Life, and that noone comes to Father but by Him.

Am I misunderstanding my entire new testament? Or are you?

Ask yourself again, how do you even know the name, Jesus Christ?



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 04:05 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff
 

Paul in Romans 14 makes mention that we will appear before the judgment seat of Christ (not the GWToJ).
Of course Paul was not talking about the GWT since that is a fictionalized version of judgment in Revelation, not written by Paul, and not something recognized by Paul. Meaning, Paul makes no mention of it, or quote from it.


Romans 14:10-12 "judgment" (Bhema) -----> Stand where awards are given to participants (Olympics)

Revelation 20:11-15 "judgment" (Krino) -----> Means "Crisis".


One is a good place to be where rewards are given or lost (1 Corinthians 3:15) , salvation isn't lost, the one in Revelation you DO NOT want to be at and the severity of condemnation is pronounced on the wicked.



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