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A Lesson in Jumping to Conclusions (the Trayvon Martin shooting)

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posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 09:15 PM
reply to post by timetothink

Yeah, I read this today. Really has me worried that the hype is going to reach a fever pitch and someone innocent and extraneous to this is going to get hurt or killed.

Spike Lee was clearly in the wrong with his actions. I wonder how he would feel if someone carried out his suggestion and one or both of this elderly couple was harmed. Would he justify it, absolve himself from it? Would there be media outrage from it? Would Sharpton or Jackson villify it?

Of course, the above is all hypothetical, but he did make the first move and people did respond.

posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 09:21 PM
reply to post by Furbs

How is Zimmerman a racist. Just please point to some facts. If he is racist lets see some of it. Sounds like he has black friends that are speaking out on this, so what's your evidence.

Not saying starting the fight was a good call, nor that he is innocent. It's best to let the facts play out in court however before we judge.

posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 09:21 PM
I grieve for the mother...all this paperwork to contend with~sigh

MARCH 26--The mother of Trayvon Martin has filed two applications to secure trademarks containing her late son’s name, records show. Sybrina Fulton is seeking marks for the phrases “I Am Trayvon” and “Justice for Trayvon,” according to filings made last week with the United States Patent and Trademark Office. In both instances, Fulton, 46, is seeking the trademarks for use on “Digital materials, namely, CDs and DVDs featuring Trayvon Martin,” and other products. The March 21 USPTO applications, each of which cost $325, were filed by an Orlando, Florida law firm representing Fulton, whose first name is spelled "Sabrina" in the trademark records.

and other products

~is still a rose

posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 09:28 PM
reply to post by DJW001

OK listen up the police dept. recommed manslaughter.The D.A. chose not to file the charges.Quit scanning headlines then forming opinions.

posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 09:28 PM

Originally posted by diakrite

However, bottom-line is that a "neighbourhood-watch" found it neccesary to follow a guy because he wore a hoodie, and was black.

Dispatch warned him NOT to pursue. Mr Neighbourhood-watch ignored it, and America is -yet again- sitting on a powder-kegg.

There's a reason Police always discourages vigilantism. As a neighbourghood watch with papers (as was apparently the case) Mr Neighbourhood-watch should have remembered his lessons. He didn't, and went to play the hero.

It's pretty simple: Dispatch says "No Following" they'll call the local Patrol Cars and a true cop comes to have a look. That's the way it ought to work.
Yet.. suddenly it's the kid's fault he got shot? What would You do when followed by some freaky fat bloke? You'd first run, and then, when not getting away, fight like a Lion.

I have to admit though that I am somewhat biased, being ex military police
edit on 3/27/2012 by diakrite because: typos, hope I got them all

To me it's obvious the boy was somewhere he wasn't suppose to be for Mr Neighborhood watch to question it, not because he had on a hoodie. Why would he start bashing the guys head in if he wasn't doing anything wrong?
I don't agree in violence but it happens everyday, so sick of people playing the race card.

posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 09:32 PM
And here comes the violence......yes the media did cause this....all of it.

North Miami Beach Police are investigating after a group of high school students who walked out of school in protest of the Trayvon Martin shooting were caught on video ransacking a drug store last week. The incident happened shortly before 11 a.m. Friday at the Walgreens at 1501 Northeast 163rd Street, minutes after between 400-500 North Miami Beach Senior High students walked out to protest the 17-year-old's shooting death in Sanford.

And here comes my off color remark.....

When was the last time in the US did you see groups off whites, Asians, Latinos whatever....doing stuff like this....Al Sharpton, J Jackson, the Black Panthers, stupid celebrities and the media are to blame for the inciting.
edit on 27-3-2012 by timetothink because: (no reason given)

posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 09:33 PM
IMO, The more the news covers this story and the more it saturates the american publics minds the less of a chance any justice will prevail. If the guy is innocent then having half of the US hating him isnt helping, neither is if hes guilty and arraigned because itll be impossible to find a venue without a verdict alreaky in the jurors minds. The MSM needs to put news out there that people need to know, not just things to gossip about, its sad.

posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 09:34 PM
reply to post by FlyersFan

I think initially many people mixed up raced based, with hate crime. There is a difference. Was Zimmerman racially profiling Trayvon? Yes he was. If Trayvon had of been a white kid wearing Dockers and a plaid button up, would Zimmerman have been suspicious of him? Probably not. Did Zimmerman, have the intention of shooting Trayvon from the start? I can't say either way, as I don't have access to all of the evidence. Nobody else does either, outside of those law enforcement officials who are a part of the investigations.

There has been a whole hell of a lot of jumping to conclusions with this thing. Right off the top, most people assumed Zimmerman was some white/Jewish guy. Also many white people who don't know any better are now using Trayvon's online photos, tweets, and school suspensions, as a way to try and justify his killing, labeling him as a thug. The defense might have some fun with that if Zimmerman is ever hauled into court, but none of that has anything to do with Zimmerman shooting him. Zimmerman is being called a racist by many, yet has black friends vouching for him on TV. He either has deep pockets to pay somebody to do that, or he really has black friends.

The whole situation is tragic. But none of us has all of the information.

posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 09:43 PM
Talk about jumping to conclusions, this post shows the pics put out by sites like Stormfront of the "thug" Trayvon Martin was at 17 next to the true pictures of Martin at 17. Half of you in this thread and on this forum gobbled them up like candy.

posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 09:44 PM
There was an incident I read about in a northern state, I want to say Midwest, where a young black man in his early twenties, walking his dog, let the dog soil a guys yard in a suburban neighborhood. When the homeowner (war vet older gentlemen) came out to address the young man. The young man started mouthing off and being disrespectful. When the older gentlemen walked down and confronted the young man, the young man ended up punching him, so the older guy blew him away. This older gentlemen went through trial on manslaughter or murder charges I don't recall, but he was found not guilty. I didn't have a problem with that verdict. Of course the family of the young man cried foul. Now if that war vet. had of been a white man, you can bet the media and certain entities would have whipped up a storm of racial controversy.

posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 09:48 PM
reply to post by D_Mason

What do you people not understand about the fact that the police didn't properly investigate the scene? They didn't handle any of it properly at all. All the comparison cases you bring up, someone was arrested and went to court where they had to prove their claims. George Zimmerman hasn't ever even been in handcuffs!

posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 09:52 PM

Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by D_Mason

What do you people not understand about the fact that the police didn't properly investigate the scene? They didn't handle any of it properly at all. All the comparison cases you bring up, someone was arrested and went to court where they had to prove their claims. George Zimmerman hasn't ever even been in handcuffs!

Is that official? That the local police didn't do a proper investigation or just speculation? You may be privy to information that I haven't come across, if so do share.

I was more speaking to people who are jumping to conclusions on all sides without even having any knowledge of all of the evidence, and also speaking about how the media whips up a racial frenzy whenever it suits certain entities.

posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 09:57 PM
Everyone needs to keep your eyes and ears wide open because I sense a gun law bill being passed in light of this. Why is the President getting involved and making comments on this one when there have been so many others that he could have gotten involved with as well. Why did this happen in Florida? Yanno, just saying, it may be nothing at all but, I'll put money on that they will change the gun carry laws because of this. Also, remember we have an election coming down the road and it always seems to be Florida. Everyone is always fighting over Florida in the end.

posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 09:59 PM
reply to post by D_Mason

Thread here.
Also there's probably a case every day of the week that fits the bill for stirring the racial pot, once in a while I think there's justification for a story to become the focus of a nation.
edit on 27-3-2012 by Kali74 because: (no reason given)

posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 10:03 PM
Did he, Treyvon, have intent to do him bodily harm?
Are fists considered if not deadly, at least weapons? What about the sidewalk that he slammed his head into? Is that considered a weapon?

The answer to all of these would be yes. A witness said Treyvon attacked Zimmerman, intent to do bodily harm. His fists served as a weapon as did the sidewalk.

You can kill someone by punching them in the face.
You can kill someone by slamming their head into an object like concrete.

If evidence is true and witnesses honorable, Zimmerman was justified in using any tool he had to STOP his attacker from doing further bodily harm to him.

posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 10:03 PM
I guess to an extent, it's the relevant Florida self defense statute on trial. It's at one end of the spectrum, no retreat, arguably shoot, ask questions later. My brother got mugged in NYC once whilst carrying a licensed firearm. One of the cops on the scene was perplexed as to why he didn't use it, said next time shoot, and shoot to kill to avoid having to pay medical bills for the rest of his life. Strange days.

posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 10:08 PM

Originally posted by Jaellma
reply to post by Kali74
If I had to ask you Kali, why do you think so many on here are defending Zimmerman? A kid is dead and his family wants justice served but so many here have drastically differing views.

If you had to guess several reasons why, what would you say is causing them to defend Zimmerman so passionately? I am just curious.

I would like to take that one and for the sake of this debate I am taking the data at face value that surfaced from the reported witness I have read from the available transcripts as most likely the case. I do this because, right now it is apparently the data we have. When that changes I will asses that and move on.

I suspect you're asking these questions because they are probably not black is why they feel this way. Way too easy to say now isn't it? And way racist of anyone to say it too. Sure there are some evil KKK idiots somewhere who are happy. I bet they're happy because they like the fact Sharpton, and clansmen have showed their asses and made the moderate non blacks of all races and creed notice the KKK's prime enemies. Way to go Al give those loonies the floor will ya? We don' t need them around ever again and Al is helping them have fodder to form up again.

But for most victims and friends of victims who have had their face smashed, their homes invaded, their hard earned things ripped etc in violent events conducted by thugs think there is clearly a POSSIBLITY that this 'kid' as 17 is still a child to me, was guilty of "assualt with intent to commit murder or bodily harm". This assualt happened to one of them and by their actions the 911 tapes etc.. it seems Zimmerman is the victim first as far as being attacked violently is concerned. He is now one of those people we would call "everyman" or "anyman" who appears to be losing his life one way or another. Either by being beat to death at the scene or killed in the bounty hunt led by the Black KKK. Clearly the young man died and that was a tragedy. What is only making it all worse is vigilante justice. When this child who may be a PERP died he did leave evidence and for some reason Anti White people seem to not want to believe it. I could care less what you think of my color being a part of my decision, but I will state absolutely it is not.

People have died and probably someone else will die from a bare handed attack. Therefore, jumping to the conlusion that Zimmerman perhaps broke and bloodied his own nose or somehow was asking for a beating is a little to much for honest citizens seeking the truth. Especially, when Al Sharpton is involved, the chief Race Hustler after Farakahn.RACE BAITING cares not for the details just the emotions that some Race Huslter is flaming. In 2012, it is way past time for race hustlers to be making a living!!

So now we are at a crossroads. We really have to understand that freedom is not free it has costs that are hard sometimes. And justice does sometimes means a young man making a very bad choice dies pretty much senselessly as he had a choice and he apparently chose wrong. Choices we make do have consequences. Except for the grace of God, there go many of us.

Please, reach out to someone of another 'race' and let them know you don't hate them and you believe in honest dealings in all these matters if you want to help. That would do more than Al Sharpton could undo. Hate and racism is the divider. Love of our fellow man is the only thing that stops this mess.

posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 10:27 PM
reply to post by mustangill

I agree with you...

That was my first thought when saw the frenzy being whipped up over this,

Now senator Schumer, from my embarrassment of a state, NY....wants a federal investigation of the stand your ground law of FL.

Look out everyone, the noise you here is the constitution being ripped up.

posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 10:28 PM

The February 2012 HOA newsletter requested that crime victims "call our captain, George Zimmerman" after calling the police.[8] Wendy Dorival, who organizes Neighborhood Watch for the Sanford Police Department, told the Sentinel in a recent interview that Zimmerman was chosen as a watch coordinator by his neighbors.[42]

The Retreat at Twin Lakes is a recently built private community in Sanford, Florida consisting of townhouses and condominiums. Vehicular access is by gates to the north and east, which are unguarded but electronically controlled.

He was not "self appointed and it was private property including the roads.

posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 10:35 PM
I am done with this site. Critical thinking is being stomped out as it tries to be born, by complainers, whiners, haters, and those who skip humanity in a pretended attitude of saving it.

It is a poor substitute for a real classroom, a real course of study, real professors, real students. I pity those who never saw a real debate class, and are therefore unable to realize how ridiculous the "arguments" are around here. There is some strange assumption that human insight is somehow or it didn't happen-type attitudes, also. Between these and the total absence of self-control, this might as well be the site whose name we dare not say. How disappointing.

Most of the ones I respect left a while back. Since I haven't been around a lot, I didn't see what they saw. I do now. We have had chances to discuss, to welcome new ideas, to speculate wildly. But the one thing it seems one cannot do on ATS anymore is express actual human sympathy. It has become obselete.

My final comment:

"The Obselete Man"

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