Ostension and 2012

reply to post by stereologist

So where is this false evidence? What is false about long term tracking of quakes and eruptions? What is false about whole sky surveys? What is false?

You have 3600 years of hard data available to you?!? Please source. For your argument "against" the 2012ers, you have maybe a century and a half of data? With really only the last 50 years being really recorded...and of that really only 10 years that is recording alot more places, which could make it "seem" like there is more happening in/to the Earth, but, maybe it really is. Like I said, you don't know, you are only using the data that you believe to be true. Didn't they believe the Earth to be flat awhile ago as well?

ETA: Iraq's WMD, Iran's nukes, 9/11 was Bin Laden, the glove didn't fit, etc.

Originally posted by stereologist

I didn't make up these terms. I simply reported them. These terms come from or were derived from studies in folklore. That is what 2012 has become. It has become folklore.

You may be right, you may well be very, very wrong. Either way, things are neither ostensible nor are they folklore until after Dec 31, 2012.

Simple as that. You are as off-based as the ones you ridicule under your breath, the only difference is that you are predicting what will be folklore instead of [insert 2012 event(s)].

Originally posted by stereologistI agree that no side is going to less prone to this. But do you know of any 2012 instances? It would be fascinating to learn about it if there were such a 2012 issue.

Here's one that's on every single 2012 related thread:

- OP makes a post saying X will happen.
- 2nd poster makes a post saying X can't possibly happen, giving no evidence or explanation why.
- Other posters come in and agree with 2nd poster citing reasons to the effect of "We expect tomorrow to be the same as today" as evidence.
- Everyone gets on board and bashes the original idea without actually proving it wrong.

I'm not saying that every post that disagrees with an idea is like this, but in literally every single 2012 thread this happens. Often the OP was doing the same thing, but it works both ways.

I agree that there is a lot of ostension around 2012. I also agree that it works both ways

reply to post by superman2012

You have 3600 years of hard data available to you?!? Please source. For your argument "against" the 2012ers, you have maybe a century and a half of data? With really only the last 50 years being really recorded...and of that really only 10 years that is recording alot more places, which could make it "seem" like there is more happening in/to the Earth, but, maybe it really is. Like I said, you don't know, you are only using the data that you believe to be true. Didn't they believe the Earth to be flat awhile ago as well?

ETA: Iraq's WMD, Iran's nukes, 9/11 was Bin Laden, the glove didn't fit, etc.

Where does this 3600 year number come from? Why would I need 3600 years of hard data?

As far as quake and eruption data is concerned, the existing data does not support the contention that anything is happening. That is part of the folklore of 2012. This claim of 2012 that there are increases is demonstrably false.

The flat Earth claim is another case of false information that has become folklore. Thanks for providing another example of ostension.

reply to post by PulsusMeusGallo

You may be right, you may well be very, very wrong. Either way, things are neither ostensible nor are they folklore until after Dec 31, 2012.

Simple as that. You are as off-based as the ones you ridicule under your breath, the only difference is that you are predicting what will be folklore instead of [insert 2012 event(s)].

That is not true. What we already know to be false are:
1. An unknown mass in the solar system within the orbits of the known planets
2. A second sun
3. Mayan prophecies
4. Other cultures referring to 2012
5. Increases in quakes and volcanic eruptions
6. Increases in fireballs
7. Changes in DNA
8. Great planetary alignment
9. Giant spaceships next to the sun
10. Nibiru
11. Elenin impact
12. rocket launch failures are messages from outside of the Earth
13. 3600 year catastrophe cycle

We don't need to wait any longer to know all of that is false. These are all folklore.

reply to post by Cecilofs


That's not quite the way I see it

- OP makes a post saying X will happen.
- 2nd poster makes a post saying X can't possibly happen, giving no evidence or explanation why.

What I see is:
1. OP makes a post saying X will happen without evidence
2. A post is made to contest the claims of X
3. No evidence is ever offered to support X
4. Overwhelming evidence is offered against X
5. People continue to believe in X and attack the skeptics as being agents of fictional groups

reply to post by SonoftheSun

Sounds in the sky?

What ever happened to all those "sounds in the sky?" At one point, ATS was crammed with threads about them. It's been over a month now since anyone has "reported" one. Ostentation is prone to fads and fashion; no-one photographs spirit mediums exuding ectoplasm any more. Why not, do you suppose?

reply to post by stereologist

My point being ( do I really need to keep explaining it?) is that there is too little data right now for you to claim that the natural disasters are not increasing. (How old is the Earth compared to how long accurate records have been kept?) You might be providing false data without knowing it, much like the people who "knew" the Earth was flat.

Edit: The reason I said 3600 years of data was because of the supposed 3600 cycle of destruction. You referenced this number in a couple of posts above.

reply to post by superman2012


The thing is 2012 believers claim to use mainstream archaeological data to support their beliefs. This is the same source for my data. My data says that there are no 2012 prophecies in the archaeological record. This is the truth. The only way they can counter this to say that my source is lying. However, if my source is lying than so is their source. There is no ostension here, simply the truth.

Take for example the basic claim that the Long Count ends on December 21, 2012. Not a single 2012 believer can provide an example of this being true or even where the claim originates. Now, this is in truth a false claim. Yet it is a false claim that has been absorbed into these people's beliefs and in fat drives the entire quasi-religion that is 2012. This is a clear cut example of ostension.

reply to post by Xcalibur254

Take for example the basic claim that the Long Count ends on December 21, 2012. Not a single 2012 believer can provide an example of this being true or even where the claim originates. Now, this is in truth a false claim. Yet it is a false claim that has been absorbed into these people's beliefs and in fat drives the entire quasi-religion that is 2012. This is a clear cut example of ostension.

Ah yes, but can you provide proof it doesn't end in 2012? We don't know why they made their calendar to only last so long before it starts over. We can take an educated guess at it, but in the end, you can not say with 100% certainty that you know for sure.

reply to post by superman2012

My point being ( do I really need to keep explaining it?) is that there is too little data right now for you to claim that the natural disasters are not increasing. (How old is the Earth compared to how long accurate records have been kept?) You might be providing false data without knowing it, much like the people who "knew" the Earth was flat.

Edit: The reason I said 3600 years of data was because of the supposed 3600 cycle of destruction. You referenced this number in a couple of posts above.

The flat earth claim is dead on arrival. That idea was discarded long before science was developed. It was readily apparent to people that the Earth was not flat as soon as they began to move around. A flat Earth is still used today when surveyors lay out a building site.

The evidence is very clear that is no change in earthquakes or volcanic eruptions. Yet, 2012 believers claim that there is data to support it. The data does not support such a claim. Although false, this has been a "fact" in the mind of the 2012 believer. This is an example of how ostension happens.

I asked about 3600 years to make sure what was being discussed. There is no 3600 year cycle of catastrophes. That false idea too lives on as folklore.

reply to post by superman2012


The long count does not end, nor does it restart. It is simply a count of days.

reply to post by superman2012


It is a fact that the Long Count does not end or repeat on December 21, 2012. This is supported by data throughout Mesoamerica. Be it the only reference to 13.0.0.0.0 is Tortuguero Monument 6 which talks about a religious ceremony; the inscriptions at Palaenque that mention piktuns; or the LC date on Coba Stela 1 which extends back trillions of years with no indication of end or repetition. These claims also ignore the primary function of the LC which was to keep track of dates that fall outside the 52 year Calendar Round cycle. These are facts that clearly show the Long Count does not end on December 21, 2012. Yet this claim has become the core of all 2012 claims. It's not that both sides are ignorant. It's that 2012 believers are ignorant and as a result they have taken their false claims and made them part of their cosmology. A clear cut example of ostension.

reply to post by PulsusMeusGallo

You may be right, you may well be very, very wrong. Either way, things are neither ostensible nor are they folklore until after Dec 31, 2012.

Simple as that. You are as off-based as the ones you ridicule under your breath, the only difference is that you are predicting what will be folklore instead of [insert 2012 event(s)].

Originally posted by stereologist That is not true. What we already know to be false are: [snipped events which can still come to pass or had nothing to do with 2012 related events]...
We don't need to wait any longer to know all of that is false. These are all folklore.

Spin it, lie about it, rotate the truth any way you want, the bottom line is nothing is known until after 2012. Ostensibility or predictions.

See above. I couldn't have made this any simpler for you. Why lie to continue a thread based on lies?

reply to post by PulsusMeusGallo

Spin it, lie about it, rotate the truth any way you want, the bottom line is nothing is known until after 2012. Ostensibility or predictions.

See above. I couldn't have made this any simpler for you. Why lie to continue a thread based on lies?

Please provide any evidence at all to substantiate your statement.

Here are the specifics you did not quote.

That is not true. What we already know to be false are:
1. An unknown mass in the solar system within the orbits of the known planets
2. A second sun
3. Mayan prophecies
4. Other cultures referring to 2012
5. Increases in quakes and volcanic eruptions
6. Increases in fireballs
7. Changes in DNA
8. Great planetary alignment
9. Giant spaceships next to the sun
10. Nibiru
11. Elenin impact
12. rocket launch failures are messages from outside of the Earth
13. 3600 year catastrophe cycle

Feel free to try and show that any of these are not 100% false.

We don't have to wait for 2012 to complete to know that this list is all false.

reply to post by PulsusMeusGallo

Spin it, lie about it, rotate the truth any way you want, the bottom line is nothing is known until after 2012. Ostensibility or predictions.

Wrong. We know that the Maya and other ancient cultures said nothing regarding 2012. Claims to the contrary have become part of the 2012 canon and form the basis for most if not all 2012 predictions. That is a fact that is easily verifiable.

Originally posted by Xcalibur254
reply to post by PulsusMeusGallo

 

Spin it, lie about it, rotate the truth any way you want, the bottom line is nothing is known until after 2012. Ostensibility or predictions.

Wrong. We know that the Maya and other ancient cultures said nothing regarding 2012. Claims to the contrary have become part of the 2012 canon and form the basis for most if not all 2012 predictions. That is a fact that is easily verifiable.

Which hasn't one thing to do with my post. Let me repeat it verbatim since you must have missed it above^

"Spin it, lie about it, rotate the truth any way you want, the bottom line is nothing is known until after 2012. Ostensibility or predictions."

With that, comment as you wish, I can't spell this out any plainer. I'm through.

reply to post by PulsusMeusGallo

Which hasn't one thing to do with my post. Let me repeat it verbatim since you must have missed it above^

"Spin it, lie about it, rotate the truth any way you want, the bottom line is nothing is known until after 2012. Ostensibility or predictions."

With that, comment as you wish, I can't spell this out any plainer. I'm through.

This is a typical falsehood promoted by 2012 believers and believers in other hoaxes I might add.

Lots is known without waiting. I don't need to wait to know that all of the following typical 2012 claims are 100% false.
1. An unknown mass in the solar system within the orbits of the known planets
2. A second sun
3. Mayan prophecies
4. Other cultures referring to 2012
5. Increases in quakes and volcanic eruptions
6. Increases in fireballs
7. Changes in DNA
8. Great planetary alignment
9. Giant spaceships next to the sun
10. Nibiru
11. Elenin impact
12. rocket launch failures are messages from outside of the Earth
13. 3600 year catastrophe cycle

The "wait and see" is a logical fallacy that is a form of arguing from ignorance.
en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by superman2012

Ah yes, but can you provide proof it doesn't end in 2012?

We don't know why they made their calendar to only last so long before it starts over. We can take an educated guess at it, but in the end, you can not say with 100% certainty that you know for sure.

Not only can they not provide proof that something cannot happen between now and the end of the year, yet they will argue incessantly that they are prophetic and 100% accurate, they have taken to lying about what a "2012 event" is claiming any event they choose that so happened to be a 2012 prediction is a 2012 event.

IOW, it's a win-win of denied ignorance.

This is an argument of heightened and accelerated stupidity but, what the heck, it's stupid arguments that make for stupid threads which are pushed along by the stupid stupidly.

Count me out of it. You are on your own.

reply to post by PulsusMeusGallo


As I have said before, I don't argue against 2012. I argue against the fact that the Maya and other ancient cultures made any mention of 2012. It just so happens that most 2012 predictions start with the claim that such cultures said something about 2012. So if this claim that is at the core of most 2012 predictions is wrong what does that say about the rest of what these people claim?