Israel to bar UN fact-finding team from entering

Originally posted by Xcathdra

Originally posted by milominderbinder

I would agree that their is no consistency, however I dont think they should go away.

What the hell does that mean? Who is "they" and what is "away"? Are you stating that you feel that the United States should not have any involvement be it in regards to politics, economics, or military action? If so this would be a remarkable reversal for you, but at least it would be coherent with turning a blind eye to the Israeli's.

You guys keep coming back to this argument, yet fail to acknowledge the failure of it. Iran signed treaties involving their nuke program. That includes allowing inspectors into the country to u[]i[]verify the program is peaceful and not being diverted into the military realm.

Israel is NOT a signatory to the treaties, and as such is not obligated to the terms of those treaties. I don't understand how you guys are not comprehending that fact? Iran is violating its treaty obligations. Israel has not violated any laws when it comes to their nuclear program because..... wait for it... they ARE NOT signatories.

Seriously...read up the issue. ISRAEL DENIED ACCESS TO THE UN INSPECTORS BECAUSE THEY ACCUSED THEM OF "BIAS"...THE EXACT SAME AS IRAN. End of the story. Any which way you cut it inspectors who were previously allowed into BOTH Israel and Iran are denied access because BOTH feel that they are not being treated fairly.

You ranted for about 30 pages on why it was such a good idea to invade Iran in the "let's cut to the chase-Iran needs tot be stopped thread". Your central argument was that Iran doesn't allow UN inspectors in and has a terrible human rights record.

So....explain yourself. Should Israel get the same treatment you advocated for Iran or not? This has nothing to do with Israel either signing or not signing the NPT. Stay on topic.

If you truly feel that there is no difference between Israel, Syria, Iran, and a pair of terrorist organizations then you should want to treat them all the same, right?

So...how do you want to treat them? What do you propose? Your sentence "I would agree that their is no consistency, however I dont think they should go away" doesn't tell me a whole hell of a lot.

If you asked America it would say because we are above you and don't have to abide by the same standards or because we plead the 5th and don't want to have our leaders serve life terms or get executed for their crimes.

Israel sucks, basically the whole middle east sucks but make no mistake America sucks the big one, and it's people would cry the loudest and call for war if the UN treated to come with military escorted inspectors.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
But for the grace of international relations, go we. Lets not root too hard for Israel to be run over by UN authority unless we're each fine with it happening in our nation next.

Great, but i havent seen you oppose the UN sanctions on Iran in any thread.

It's not about Israel being run over by UN authority - its about Israeli hypocrisy.

Netanyahu: Iran nuclear sanctions a 'positive' step U.S., Israel hail UN sanctions as Iran vows to continue nuclear enrichment
www.haaretz.com...

Cant you really see the hypocrisy? Israel supports UN sanctions on Iran, but they ignore UN on other matters.

It's about time the UN gives USA and Israel the middle finger

Originally posted by GrinchNoMore
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

The Bible itself shows that this is not the Israel from ANY of those passages...so fault is at the top of consideration...what is the state for ?? Fighting , warring, terrorizing it's own people...and all for religion, just like all the others you secretly hate, FIGHT FOR GOD !!!

Have a nice life FEARFUL HATEFUL ONES...hiding behind your disgusting religions.

I didn't realize I was in the R,F,&T forum.

What does this have to do with religion?

Originally posted by Xcathdra

As well as being correct. The UN investigated the use of Phosphorous and determined its use was for illumination and not attack. A report that was ignored because it didn't accuse Israel of a war crime.

as you can see by these pictures, it was pitch black when the israeli's dropped the white phosphorous on the civilians of gaza. since they cut off electricity, maybe the where trying to help.



the same with this school. maybe they were trying to illuminate the courtyard, so the children could escape.
the idf is a model of humanitarianism.



apparently this little girl didn't get the memo.

[REMOVED BY STAFF]
isn't life under military occupation great.

Originally posted by Xcathdra

Originally posted by Black_Fox

If any other country would do this,it would be viewed as promoting and hiding human rights violations.

Apparently Hezbullah, Hamas, Iran and Syria didn't get that memo..


See answer above.

Again see first answer...

Finally, at least, you are putting Israel to the same bar as Hizbollah, Hamas, Iran, and Syria.

I guess we should be thankful for small concessions!

reply to post by tothetenthpower

Typical Israeli government behavior.

Perhaps it's a case of:


Been there, done that^10


Wild guess of course.

Originally posted by Intrud3r

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
But for the grace of international relations, go we. Lets not root too hard for Israel to be run over by UN authority unless we're each fine with it happening in our nation next.

Great, but i havent seen you oppose the UN sanctions on Iran in any thread.

It's not about Israel being run over by UN authority - its about Israeli hypocrisy.

Actually, I don't believe I've mentioned the Iran sanctions in any thread, either way. Except to mention that Iran moved their assets and most of their holdings out of the West a couple years before the Nuclear issue started becoming an international matter again under Bush, I've pretty well left it alone. The reason is that it's pointless to talk about.

Sanctions always carry waivers or exceptions or cleverly worded definitions so the people who most need to be hurt never will be and the normal people always take it right in the teeth. It lets the politicians cry later about the humanity of it all, but the actual leaders never seem too hungry or needing for things that I've seen.

As much as it just burns some people, I don't see this as being about Israel. They just happen to be the example in the case. The principle involved here is eagerly rooting for the Global Community (Some may recognize the term) to meddle in the internal affairs of a member nation, where it isn't posing immediate threat to another member nation. If Israel can be rolled....any nation can be and if it can be done for this, then any 'ol reason should be good enough in the future.

Australia doing something with their natives that people in New York don't like? Well... The UN may come.

France cracking down on the Muslim population? Hmm... Do I even need to say how many can call the UN for that?

This is a bad bad road to go down and I'm not defending Israel on this one. It's about the UN being UNITED Nations, not World Government with States to administer. They aren't a Governmental body in the direct sense. We should NEVER encourage them moving more toward becoming one.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Anybody who thinks they are God's "chosen" people have some serious psychological issues anyway, I'm not surprised that their government seem to be very very out of touch with reality when it comes to their behavior and the consequences of operating an open aired prison.

~Tenth

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Anybody who thinks they are God's "chosen" people have some serious psychological issues anyway, I'm not surprised that their government seem to be very very out of touch with reality when it comes to their behavior and the consequences of operating an open aired prison.

~Tenth

Dude, focus.

This isn't about religion or God. If you want to make it thus then do your job and move this to CIR or R,F,&T.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


It's entirely about that actually, considering Israel draws it's supposed Authority from being God's Chosen people, and the rest of the world who supports them gives the same excuse.

And yeah no, can't action a thread I'm participating in, so that's not going to work. I was simply connecting the dots.

The behavior is the result of arrogant self image. It's quite on topic to discuss why they would attempt to act this way in the face of simple logic and law.

In any case, not surprised at all. Just more of the same.

~Tenth

Of course they would ban them. Why? Because they can. Who's going to stand up to them, a boat-ful of Turkish activists or some girl from from Olympia?

reply to post by tothetenthpower


I'm sorry, I can't connect the dots between God/religion and barring UN envoys.

To me, it looks like another anti-Israeli circle-jerk thread.

Just being honest.

I see a crapload of prejudicial arbitrary conjectures, not very much substance.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Well I'd probably agree with you if I'd read the first 4 pages.

Honestly most of the time these do devolved into anti-Israeli threads, and I'm not that.

I'm just anti-Israeli government and it's not hard to be considering their track record of asking for something while doing the opposite.

Besides, they agreed to stop building settlements anyway, it's UN resolution territory isn't it? If it is, then why not allow the inspectors in?

Because they aren't following what they agreed to is the most logical answer.

~Tenth

reply to post by tothetenthpower

Because they aren't following what they agreed to is the most logical answer.

It isn't the most logical answer. Based upon history of UN envoys Israel doesn't feel at all they are trying to look at the "facts" objectively, but are trying to come there to look for "faults".

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by tothetenthpower

 

Because they aren't following what they agreed to is the most logical answer.

It isn't the most logical answer. Based upon history of UN envoys Israel doesn't feel at all they are trying to look at the "facts" objectively, but are trying to come there to look for "faults".

That's what a fact finding mission is, trying to find problems with a current process that's been put in place. Or an agreement. Why do they need to go and make this "inspection" in the first place?

Because they received complaints? Because they don't believe Israel is holding up to their end of the deal?

That's what I want to know.

Israel screams bias and refuses to cooperate, it makes them look guilty. If they had nothing to hide, then why would it matter what they found? If they were carrying on a bias, then it would be clear in their report once it was filed would it not?

Mostly, only guilty folks refuse to allow inspections of things, for fear of being found out.

~Tenth

reply to post by tothetenthpower


Do you remember what happened with the flotilla incident?

Mostly, only guilty folks refuse to allow inspections of things, for fear of being found out.

Except when they speak Farsi of course.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


What does that have to do with anything? Israel refused to let anybody investigate that either.

They never agreed to react a certain way regarding these flotillas. The settlements however are a different story.

That's a whole other ball game. It's one thing to not like the results of a study done about a situation where they had very little time to react, and yes perhaps mistakes were made that day, but the cast them as they did was probably a bit wrong.

But not following through with your agreements is something else entirely is it not? They are responsible for keeping their word on this subject. If they haven't, or won't, why not just say it?

Why scream bias and effectively say " NO, were gonna take our ball and were gonna go home, we aren't friends anymore."

It's a pretty lame response.

As for that Iranian jab, that's different too. We can debate that another time if you'd like, but comparing the two is quite silly.

~Tenth

I do not understand how anyone can fail to grasp the fact that Israel is a "rogue" state, and that their actions are the most hostile in the forms of policy. I also do not know why the US continues to support this blatant hypocritical government.

And there is no arguing they are hypocritical on extremely important issues, possibly THE most important issues...Nuclear weapons and human rights. I like how some people attempt to blame Israel's actions on Iran. Are you kidding me? Get a clue...educate yourselves. That is directed at everyone who falls into the category I mentioned above.

Iran has YET to do anything to provoke an attack. One cannot say that Israel, or anyone for that matter, MUST strike Iran to prevent them from attacking first. That is ignorant given the circumstances; even more so considering Iran's position, as they have repeatedly stated, is to protect their country. They will not start anything, although by some of you people's logic THEY have absolutely every right to. It works both ways ya know?

Oh, I forgot, Israel doesn't play by the rules, therefore what applies to everyone else does not apply to them. I find something inherently tyrannical about that, don't you?