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A skeptical view

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posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 05:39 AM
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Funny how plasma ghosts read solid on radar screens, five of them in one case when being pursued by F-16s.




posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 09:53 AM
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Originally posted by eyesontheskies
reply to post by dejarmaX
 

There are 2 videos that arent exactly proof but they are pretty interesting and could possibly be proof if they are true.

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...
are you having a laugh? for a start the art bell one is a known windup... the second is an idiot with a mic. you find these interesting
pheeew!



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 10:06 AM
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Dear OP...

I offer you my own account of either extraterrestrial or other unknown flying craft, that was a black saucer, "sitting" outside my house in broad daylight on a clear summers day in the year of 2010.

It was not very large, 6-10 ft. Made noise at all. It didn't hum or hover. It just sat there, In a very unnatural, unearthly way.

I do not know how it came to be there, as it appeared in the blink of an eye. It sat for around 2 minutes ALLOWING me to observe it, before tilting slightly on its right side then reversing very slowly into the distance until I could see it no more.

I also have a photo from the same summer that shows 2 orbs, one of which I was observing being chased/or chasing our jets. One was almost translucent, the other a solid metal ball.

I TESTIFY THAT I AM NOT LYING NOR DO I TAKE ANY HALLUCINOGENICS, I AM AVAILABLE FOR A POLY GRAPH TEST WHEN EVER YOU ARE AVAILABLE ALSO.

I AM NOT IN THE MILITARY OR ANY DEFENSE PROGRAMS THAT MAY HAVE GAVE ME THE OPPORTUNITY TO TRAIN TOWARDS FOOLING A POLY GRAPH.

Not that my account means anything, or my photos mean anything, or my completed poly graph would fekkin MEAN ANYTHING....because we have that kind of evidence in abundance, you just refuse to believe its TRUE!

Thank you for your time.



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 10:16 AM
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reply to post by Sinny
 


All due respect but how do I know you're not lying or exaggeration something normal you thought (at first glance) was strange? I don't, do I....this Is the problem, & will remain to be the problem until real proof is put forward-- of which IMHO hasn't happened yet.

peace.

dej...



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 10:24 AM
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reply to post by dejarmaX
 


You do not have proof of whether I am lying or not. Hence if you would like to pay for my poly graph test, I will be happy to comply.

I have no reason what so ever to lie "DENY IGNORANCE" is my motto.

I can also show you the picture that includes these 2 orbs?? They're not spectacular pics, that will make you loose your breath or anything, but they clearly shoe 2 flying orbs....Now whats round and small and fly in the sky if its NOT extraterrestrial or other unknown craft?? I'm at a loss to find an answer.

And believe me I know there are many trolls and hoaxes out there, but I would NOT LIE about this! Life would be much easier for me if I didn't see it!! Since my sighting, I'm on a quest to find out what it was, even if that means some people see ME as the quack......because I KNOW that I am not the quack, myn eyes don't lie



ETA: Ever seen the film "Fire In The Sky"? Based on true events, all men took the poly graph and passed it...its worth nothing apparently...so how does one provide "proof" of telling the truth??

edit on 27-3-2012 by Sinny because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 10:35 AM
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reply to post by dejarmaX
 


The answers to why we have little physical evidence are plain: they are often non-visible, and do not really want to be identified. Some may be non-corporeal, or even interdimensional; and some may have the technology to remain "out of phase" with our physicality.

So, of course you are unlikely to find them.

And of course such things will seem to be in the "strange" category, but especially if you are looking for naturalistic causes.

How any secret organizations might be in cahoots with them is a good question.

As to evidence: There are billions of people who have had unusual experiences; they may call them spiritual, supernatural, or paranormal, but these are apparently of some non-visible intelligence or force. Many of the experiences are similar, but because people CALL it something different, and because of differences in beliefs, most focus on the differences, and might miss the facts in common. It is the similarities of fact that we are interested in. And apparently it is fact that billions have had experiences of non-visible intelligences or forces. This is a MASSIVE amount of evidence; and it cannot be examined under a microscope or be reproduced in a lab, because these are NOT naturally-occurring phenomena!

Science must open its mind to these realities, experiences, and evidences, many of which are one-time occurrences. The vast amount of agreement in facts – that is, the similarities – provide a big picture:

There is something there that is intelligent in the non-visible.

Regards,
timeisonwhoseside
edit on 27-3-2012 by timeisonwhoseside because: Fixed spelling mistake.

edit on 27-3-2012 by timeisonwhoseside because: Added emphasis.



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 10:41 AM
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reply to post by dejarmaX
 

I am like you. I am pretty confident that there is life out there, but i highly doubt they ever visited our tiny planet in middle of nowhere. The distances between our star and even closest ones are just to great.
And like you said there is not a shred of real evidence out there.



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 05:26 PM
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Originally posted by thesearchfortruth
It's incredible how in a court someones eye-witness testimony can send someone to the electric chair, but when they report a UFO sighting their testimony is no longer valid.


I disagree.

What is incredible is how people can make bold statements like the one above, which is completely untrue, and get multiple stars for it.

Please can you show me an example of a case in recent times where someone has been sent "to the electric chair" based on eye witness testimony alone?

I think you'll find (if you look) that there is also physical evidence in court cases where there are convictions.

It's a poor comparison anyway: In a court, we are not proving that "murders (for example) can occur", we are trying to find our who did the deed, where as here, we are trying to find out if we are being visited or not, which would be equivalent to trying to ascertain if a murder has occurred or if they are occurring.

That makes no sense in legal terms, as far as I can tell, but I have never studied law formally, so I'd be interested to hear the opinion of someone who has.

The truth of that matter is that eye witness testimony is unreliable in many cases, but especially so with UFO cases because our brains have evolved to work with things on the ground and close by, and because most people are not familiar with sky, which adds another dimension to the unreliability of UFO reports on top of all the other weaknesses people have in terms of the way the human brain works. I went into detail and posted examples



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 07:12 PM
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reply to post by FireballStorm
 


You are absolutely right. Eye-witness testimony alone is not enough. I took quite a few law classes in college. For awhile I thought about being a lawyer. Eye-witness testimony cases have a very bad track record and many innocent people have went to jail because of faulty memory, false identification, and flat out lying. More than 5,000 people annually have been sent to prison who were innocent. Thankfully, the law is much more evolved from our early cases. Now we have forensic science to further identify guilty parties, where as once this didn't exist. You have to remember - perception isn't everything, particular when trying to prove a legal case. I think it's prudent to look at all UFO's and alien abduction cases like you would a legal case. More than witness testimony has to be present before it is taken as fact of extraterrestrial visitation.



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 09:52 PM
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reply to post by FireballStorm
 


We can't consider testimony unreliable simply because the craft described cannot be explained as something mundane or conventional.

I suppose in the sightings that turn out to be identified you consider the testimony reliable and accurate. Think about that.

Pilots are acceptional witnesses because they are trained to identify things in the sky, especally military pilots.

Please tell me how to explain this case: www.ufoevidence.org...

10 trained witnesses reported a grayish disk that responded to pursuit and displayed maneuvers far beyond anything we are capable of today. Please explain this.


edit on 27-3-2012 by thesearchfortruth because: to add to post



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 10:05 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Mar, 28 2012 @ 10:22 AM
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Originally posted by dejarmaX

Originally posted by thesearchfortruth
Here is another multiple witness report. The saucer-shaped craft described responded to pursuit by a plane and then shot off at incredible speed. The object was out of sight in two or three seconds. Tell me please, what airplane belonging to an agency on this earth can go from hovering to several thousand miles per hour in the blink of an eye?

ETA: there are hundreds of reports such as these, I don't have time to list many but I'd be impressed if you could find an explanation for the two I listed above.
edit on 26-3-2012 by thesearchfortruth because: eta
It's just a story!! You have no idea that what you're being told really happened!! You either choose to believe what you're told or you don't! Simple as that... What else can I say about it!?! Peace my friend.

dej...


I feel the same way about the Civil War. It's a great story, very exciting, but really that's all it is. There's no absolute physical proof that it even happened, much less that it played out the way the history books would have you believe. I haven't seen a shred of physical evidence proving its reality. Look at the stuff they try to put forward as "evidence". Photographs which can be easily faked, documents which can also be easily faked. Then we have supposed "graves" of all these alleged "soldiers". Personally I've never seen a single Civil War corpse that can be conclusively verified to have been killed while fighing in any of these mythical battles. "But there are thousands of these dead bodies" they say. Where? I don't see them? Anyway, a hundred thousand corpses of unknown and unknowable provenance are no better than one in proving the reality of this supposed "historical event".



posted on Mar, 28 2012 @ 10:44 AM
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Originally posted by thesearchfortruth
Here is a good case.

en.wikipedia.org...

Please explain

edit on 26-3-2012 by thesearchfortruth because: (no reason given)


I wonder if they were following a SR71 or a Soviet equivalent. This would not be revealed to the military, even the US military if it were a CIA/NRO mission.



posted on Mar, 28 2012 @ 06:20 PM
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Originally posted by lost_shaman

Originally posted by thesearchfortruth
reply to post by CirqueDeTruth
 





it is simply a natural phenomenon we don't yet know how to identify. It seems much more probable don't you think?


No, because many UFO sightings involve traits that require intellegent control.

Examples of this include the circling of aircraft and response to stimulus (pursuit, radar beams, etc...).

To say that UFOs are only natural phenomenon ignores the close-range observations of machines. Don't forget about abductions and sightings of UFO occupants either.


The MoD's "Condign" report "UAP in the UK Air Defense region" explains all of this in terms of a plasma phenomena.

Unidentified Aerial Phenomena (UAP) in the UK Air Defence Region
edit on 26-3-2012 by lost_shaman because: (no reason given)


ufologie.patrickgross.org...

Here is a good article debunking the "Condign" report.

To get to the article, click on the "UFOStupid" section in the bottom left hand corner. Scroll until you see a section underlined "The Condign Report".
edit on 28-3-2012 by thesearchfortruth because: to add link



posted on Mar, 28 2012 @ 09:44 PM
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Hello everybody, MoreThanTheSum (of their parts) here, new poster, long-time amateur UFO-enthusiast and aficionado, chiming in on this topic. I wanted to reply to this post, because I believe that I have a fairly valid theory on several facets of the UFO phenomenon--I'm honestly not sure if this has been posted anywhere before, but if it has, that means I'm not as crazy as I thought, right? lol
Okay, on to my actual post: What do we know about the UFO sightings? Not much, other than there's a lot out there that we don't know what it is, if "they" are real, they haven't made official contact with us yet, and governments the world over officially deny that they even exist. Here is my theory. As far as planets in the galaxy go, we are discovering more and more Earth-like ones all the time, but none very near to us (as far as I know). Why? We as a species have been relegated to a galactic backwater of sorts, cut off from the rest of the galactic civilization for one of several reasons.

1) We are being denied contact because we are too primitive. "Human thought is regarded as an infectious disease in most of the civilized galaxy." -Agent K, MIB
2) We are being shunned because we are too aggressive as a species, and we are put here for the rest of the galaxy's protection. "Humanity--is like a virus, Morpheus." -Agent Smith, The Matrix
3) We are put here for OUR protection, because the rest of the galaxy is full of eldritch abominations the likes of which we cannot even begin to comprehend. "The Universe is not only stranger than we imagine, it is also stranger than we CAN imagine." -Galileo

Now, taking those theories, one would imagine that, given humanity's intense curiosity and drive to explore, we would feel intense resentment being told "no" about pretty much anything. This is like being picked last on the pick-up basketball game, only its your entire species basically being told "you suck", for one reason or another. It's possible that certain, friendlier aliens have come to the seats of power on our planet (not knowing they're all nuts), and attempted to explain this. Naturally, feelings of resentment and hostility begin to bubble up, the aliens are captured and forced to give over their secrets, and voila, you have Area 51 and their ilk. The continued sightings are due to their brethren monitoring us, either fearing for the day we seek to attack them for putting us here, or to see if they can get their friends back, or to simply see if we eventually mature enough to become part of the larger galactic community.



posted on Mar, 29 2012 @ 09:02 AM
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Originally posted by dejarmaX

What a great thing to be wrong about! That's how I feel about this enigma!

dej...


Only the people who have experiences believe in aliens. I grew up thinking that abductees on sightings were crazy and that it could not be possible. But after being the subject of a dream reality match with a personal abductee, it was like the aliens swooped me off my feet and roughed me up a bit just to show me that they are true, they are here, and they are abducting people. They are like 1,000 times greater than us. It just so happens that beings who are such greater than us can take a human out of his or her bedroom even when there husband or wife is with them. They can paralyze anything and abduct it.



posted on Mar, 29 2012 @ 11:58 PM
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Originally posted by greyer

Originally posted by dejarmaX

What a great thing to be wrong about! That's how I feel about this enigma!

dej...


Only the people who have experiences believe in aliens. I grew up thinking that abductees on sightings were crazy and that it could not be possible. But after being the subject of a dream reality match with a personal abductee, it was like the aliens swooped me off my feet and roughed me up a bit just to show me that they are true, they are here, and they are abducting people. They are like 1,000 times greater than us. It just so happens that beings who are such greater than us can take a human out of his or her bedroom even when there husband or wife is with them. They can paralyze anything and abduct it.


"dream reality" = oxymoron

And you can't vouch for someone else's tale of an "alien abduction" and if you claim you were and can't offer even basic evidence then it's just another tale and your description fits a dream, albeit a "realistic" one.



posted on Mar, 30 2012 @ 01:30 AM
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reply to post by greeneyedleo
 


One of those videos are definitely NOT GFL. And i dont really buy into the Galactic Federation of Light thing either but just because something is your OPINION doesnt make it FACT. I was just sharing some interesting and thought provoking videos. And look thoughts were provoked. Isnt that the reason for this site?
edit on 30-3-2012 by eyesontheskies because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 30 2012 @ 04:10 PM
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The FACT that no one has managed to put forward any REAL factual data in the past 70 years
reply to post by dejarmaX
 


Lack of engagement with the subject and glossing over....

You know that feature of sceptic posts is getting repetitive and tiresome.



posted on Mar, 30 2012 @ 04:51 PM
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Originally posted by Morg234



The FACT that no one has managed to put forward any REAL factual data in the past 70 years
reply to post by dejarmaX
 



Originally posted by Morg234Lack of engagement with the subject and glossing over....


I was a heavy duty staunch believer up until about 13 years ago when I decided to 'engage' this enigma properly with no glossing over! As a staunch believer I used to gloss over the data put forward all the time; because I believed!... I don't do that now.Originally posted by Morg234You know that feature of sceptic posts is getting repetitive and tiresome.
What!? & the thousands of hours spent looking into this phenom by so called experts hasn't become repetitive and tiresome? Seeing 'after 60-70 years of trying' they've come up with nothing yet! Apart from thousands of books/ DVD's etc etc so on & so forth; that have got us where that is!..You'll have to come up with a better rebuttal than that my friend-- all due respect




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