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Atheists: A hypothetical question

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posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 05:02 PM
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Originally posted by Lionhearte
Obviously. However, Satan spoke through a Serpent, and the Holy Spirit spoke through a Donkey. Neither of these animals can actually talk.
Satan couldn't speak through his own body? The holy spirit can't speak without an animal present?


Originally posted by Lionhearte
What are you referring to? Verse?
It comes from the story about Samson.


Originally posted by Lionhearte
Have you seen a Donkey's Jawbone? Just look at this thing. That thing's about as big as your forearm. Hell, give me a rock and I'll introduce you to a guy who can kill a man in a hundred ways with it. I'm sure he can do the same with the Donkey Jawbone.
Sure, you could kill A man 100 ways with it, but 1000 men? You don't think the bone would shatter by that point? Especially when used by such a strong man?


Originally posted by Lionhearte
Where WAS* the Garden of Eden? Just south of Baghdad, Iraq. Between Najaf and Kufa. It tells you where it is in the Bible.. it gives you the name of the four rivers that flow from it.
It no longer exists? Why?


Originally posted by Lionhearte
Historically and Geographically, there WAS a world wide flood.
Too much evidence against a world wide flood, sorry. That's why some christians believe it was just a local flood.


Originally posted by Lionhearte
I agree. It's 13,000 years old

Do you believe in a literal interpretation of the 6 days of creation? If so, then you'd see that the whole universe was created at the same time the earth was created. Right? So, recently amateur astronomers discovered a new supernova that occured in a galaxy 33 million light years from earth. news.yahoo.com...

This means that the light from that supernova took 33 million years to reach us. Now, if the earth and universe is only 13000 years old, how do you come to terms with the supernova? Do you say that god put the light already in its path, just like he created man already full grown? If so, then you are saying that god created that star already in an exploded state? Does that make any sense whatsoever? And, if that is the case, that your god created stars in exploded states and sent the light on its path already here, why don't we see all supernovas at the same time? Why are there decades between the sightings, or centuries even? Also, stars have been seen in their normal state, and then witness going supernova. This means that the light WAS NOT already on its path because it was giving out its normal light before the supernova occured. This also means that your god did not create the star in an exploded state.
edit on 27-3-2012 by Hydroman because: (no reason given)




posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 05:24 PM
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Originally posted by Evanzsayz
I highly doubt anyone believes in those ancient gods anymore but yeah I would say Zeus would be the same God in beliefs.
The point is that people DID believe in those gods. Time is irrelevant here. People DID believe in many other gods.

Now, as Zeus and the biblical god are the same being, I suppose that makes Hercules and Jesus brothers? Both are sons of the same god?



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 05:55 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 06:09 PM
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they're waking up alright!



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 06:56 PM
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Originally posted by SisyphusRide
I am only trying to make godlessness aware of its predispositions... we have gained these facts from society and heard it off plenty a lip, as I have exposed.


if the moderators want me to change this truth because it is too shocking I will render unto Ceasar.


edit on 27-3-2012 by SisyphusRide because: (no reason given)


Aha! Lewis Prothero. I'm sorry, but I'm a V for Vendetta addict. I've got myself a full blown V outfit, mask and suit. I caught that picture in a heartbeat.

~
That's openly admitting you're a troll though, or at least a parodist. While Prothero gave similar views to what you're claiming to have, no one would pick him as an example of who they agree with or have learned from.

~
Regardless of the tiny bit of respect V for Vendetta references earn you. Still, if you're a troll, you aren't funny. And if you're a parodist, you're not doing a good job of it.



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 09:21 PM
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reply to post by xxsomexpersonxx
 


I did like the sound of "Unity through Faith" though I am not a fan of V because of the portrayal of his character... the guy is an excellent actor though kind of like how much better toecutter was than Mel Gibson in his first movie.

it can be easily be perceived that am a troll... quite understandable but I am not that skilled.


edit on 27-3-2012 by SisyphusRide because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 10:06 PM
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Originally posted by SisyphusRide
atheist are not searching for truth... they have already found it (they are their own god)

the purpose of atheism is to inflict pain on Christians only because that is all they really know...


Wow.

You do realize that you cannot be "your own god" and be an Atheist at the same time, right?



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 10:08 PM
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Originally posted by milominderbinder

Originally posted by SisyphusRide
atheist are not searching for truth... they have already found it (they are their own god)

the purpose of atheism is to inflict pain on Christians only because that is all they really know...


Wow.

You do realize that you cannot be "your own god" and be an Atheist at the same time, right?


he is trolling, don't waste your time



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 10:10 PM
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Originally posted by SisyphusRide

there is no aggression (via planetary majority) in telling someone God loves them and is all around them, he is the creator of all things that are good... (because mans works are questionable)


YES THERE IS!!! Don't be so damn selfish and self-centered. I personally find NOTHING more despicable, loathsome, hateful, spiteful, evil, slimy, and insidious as the belief in "god".

Including me in this group of people is as agressive and offensive as you can possibly be towards me. Please stop.



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 10:11 PM
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Originally posted by SisyphusRide
atheist are aggressive and enjoy deriving pleasure by inflicting psychological pain via persecution of naturalized Christians and Theist alike who would otherwise even know of a atheist's existence.

I met my first real atheist on ATS and before then I only seen them on shows like about Jeffrey Dahmer.


edit on 27-3-2012 by SisyphusRide because: (no reason given)


You know...I started out being pretty nice to you. But the more you keep pushing your hateful nonsense the more I think my new hero is Diocletian.



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 10:14 PM
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Originally posted by SisyphusRide
reply to post by paradox
 


how to you feel about scientist trying to get rid of the violent gene in our species?


I'd prefer they work on that "belief" gene instead.



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 10:19 PM
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Originally posted by Iason321
reply to post by paradox
 


I was in the process of reading up more on secular humanism when I read this post, and some of the ideas involved with it make sense and would be beneficial to the human race - I like the idea that nobody should adopt any extremist ideologies without sufficient research and people should do whats right just because its the right thing to do, not because God or anyone said so.

And we both agree that greed is a main cause of turmoil in the world - if everyone weren't so greedy and selfish, the world would probably be a much better place.

God bless you paradox


Holy Sh%&t!!

You have made the first reasonable post by a Christian that I have ever read on ATS. That's awesome, man.

I wholeheartedly agree. You shouldn't need a "god" to tell you not to be greedy, selfish, or a whacked out extremist.

The only thing I ask is please don't do the "bless you" thing to me. Other than that...I think we see pretty much eye to eye.



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 11:31 PM
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Morals are found on an individual level. Rules and law tends to be created by those in power, and thus can be corrupted by greed or religious texts. Personally I don't believe that, if a child was born in a neutral environment, he wouldn't grow up and feel it was okay to beat a female. It might be different if he is trained to feel it is okay though, and therefore is a victim of rules or laws as set on society by people in positions of power. I would like to think that deep down, we all have a sense of what is right and wrong, and the challenge is marrying this instinctive knowledge with the society in which we are born.



posted on Mar, 28 2012 @ 03:32 AM
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reply to post by ManFromEurope
 


May I ask you a simple question? Why is a 2000 year old book (actually it's written over a period of thousands of years, by 40 different authors) regarded so highly today?

This isn't a trick question, I earnestly would like to know what your thoughts on this are.
reply to post by milominderbinder
 

1. Indeed, it tells me that the age old science motto of "If the Data don't fit, change the rules a bit" still apply by so-called "professionals" today. If you go under the assumption that the world is 4 BYO, then you will search for data based that this theory is correct. Other evidence that strongly and clearly states that the world isn't older than X TYO (thousand), is thrown out. I could post more links, if you want.

2. Don't try the "argument from authority". I shouldn't have to explain why that is always utter crap. I don't claim "the Earth is 13,000 years old because GOD says so." I believe the Earth is 13,000 years old because of what research has been done to prove this AND falsify all claims that the Earth could possibly be OLDER than a few certain years. You think I don't consider ALL possible "Time Clocks"? Do you? The sun, the receding moon, the magnetic field, Niagra falls, helium/lead in zircon, etc?

3. It's funny how in the same breath, you could possibly argue that there are contradictions in the Bible, yet when Christians everywhere give a POSSIBLE explanation (because one possible explanation completely eradicates a contradiction claim) as to why it isn't a contradiction, they are called delusion, changing their stories, "that's your interpretation", etc.. Though, as to your response, what about those who remember a "long day"? How do you explain that?

As to "Lionhearte.. you are always a riot."

Thank you.



posted on Mar, 28 2012 @ 03:51 AM
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Originally posted by Lionhearte
reply to post by ManFromEurope
 


May I ask you a simple question? Why is a 2000 year old book (actually it's written over a period of thousands of years, by 40 different authors) regarded so highly today?

This isn't a trick question, I earnestly would like to know what your thoughts on this are.


Because there is this large cult around it. Old men with lots of money, influence and the power of a cult reaching back 2000 years with millions (10^9, I guess) followers are giving a lot of good critics for this simple book.

It is, nevertheless, far less regarded by the majority of the people on this planet, lets not forget that.

But, did it teach you ANYTHING you can use in modern civilisation? Did it teach you to live your life freely? Were you unable to attain that insight without that book? Are you sure you could not live without that pack of dead trees, interpreted by old men in big stone houses under signs of a torture which is long unused?

Are you sure you could not live without someone telling you you lived good up to this point in your live? Shouldn't you be able to work your value out on your own?

I think we don't need an invisible man in space who gives us eternal candies if we lived by the rules of an old book. I don't think we need to be brought right on the moral track by being threatened with some very hot and brutal place for eternity from a loving invisible man who watches every step we take.

We are able to derive moral from simple basic values like "don't do to others what you yourself wouldn't like to have done to you".




edit on 28-3-2012 by ManFromEurope because: Had to insert an image of the bible and the more intense pages in it. Look at it, its really SFW and SFBelieve, I guess.



posted on Mar, 28 2012 @ 04:13 AM
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reply to post by ManFromEurope
 

Ahh, as I thought.

You do realize that this same "cult", was written about by Plinius Secundus, someone who was opposed to Christ, right? You want to read what he wrote?


In the meantime, the method I have observed towards those who have been denounced to me as Christians is this: I interrogated them whether they were in fact Christians; if they confessed it, I repeated the question twice, adding the threat of capital punishment; if they still persevered, I ordered them to be executed.

...They affirmed, however, that the whole of their guilt, or their error, was that they were in the habit of meeting on a certain fixed day before it was light, when they sang in alternate verses a hymn to Christ, as to a god, and bound themselves by a solemn oath, not to perform any wicked deed, never to commit any fraud, theft or adultery, never to falsify their word, nor deny a trust when they should be called upon to make it good; after which it was their custom to separate, and then reassemble to partake of food - but food of an ordinary and innocent kind.

Sure sounds like a cult to me..

Anyways. You don't really understand what the Bible is all about, do you? First, I don't deny that RELIGION is a tool, used by evil men, to gain power, money, whatever they want..

But you must have heard it said, "Christianity is not a Religion, but a Relationship", no? This isn't a statement of denial, it's a statement of truth. What many non-Believers (and even some who claim to have faith) don't realize, is that it isn't based on WORKS, or GOOD DEEDS, or how much money you can donate to your nearby Church.

It comes down to your belief in Christ. That's all that matters. It has nothing to do with morals, or laws; or rather, it has everything to do with them, and how mankind FAILS at being perfect. Want me to tell you what my "value" is? I'm a sinner. I lie, I steal, I cheat, I lust, I greed, I pride, I sloth, I envy, I hate, etc, etc..

Not because some book or an "invisible man in space" tells me so, but because I am conscious of what I'm doing, and know that I'm powerless against it.

Also, Religious people are the ones who are afraid of Hell. Spiritual people are not, because they know they are saved - again, not because they donate 10% of their check to their Church every day, but because the believe in Christ. That's it.

Wow, sure sounds like those Old men with lots of money, influence and power are REALLY getting to us.. I wonder what their ultimate plan is for us sheep?

PS - that image is pretty funny, considering most of those verses the post-it notes are referring to are Historical events. It's like a police report saying "the victim was raped, and then this happened, and then that happened"

The police report is, then, considered evil by that picture's logic. Lol, okay.



posted on Mar, 28 2012 @ 04:14 AM
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Originally posted by milominderbinder

Originally posted by SisyphusRide
atheist are not searching for truth... they have already found it (they are their own god)

the purpose of atheism is to inflict pain on Christians only because that is all they really know...


Wow.

You do realize that you cannot be "your own god" and be an Atheist at the same time, right?


I agree... Atheist are not even supposed to believe in God so where is the logic in that?


edit on 28-3-2012 by SisyphusRide because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 28 2012 @ 04:27 AM
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Originally posted by Lionhearte
Anyways. You don't really understand what the Bible is all about, do you? First, I don't deny that RELIGION is a tool, used by evil men, to gain power, money, whatever they want..

But you must have heard it said, "Christianity is not a Religion, but a Relationship", no? This isn't a statement of denial, it's a statement of truth. What many non-Believers (and even some who claim to have faith) don't realize, is that it isn't based on WORKS, or GOOD DEEDS, or how much money you can donate to your nearby Church


not all religions are bad or just a tool but I believe those are pretty much all the ones you hear about...

the multitudes of others integrate seamlessly and their services are very much needed. I would imagine Christianity to have the most food drives even if of course they can not cover all the poor, I could only speculate how many people would starve if the churches suddenly shut down.

no one else is helping including most of their governments, the Christians have food banks and soup kitchens worldwide.



posted on Mar, 28 2012 @ 04:43 AM
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Originally posted by milominderbinder

Originally posted by SisyphusRide
reply to post by paradox
 


how to you feel about scientist trying to get rid of the violent gene in our species?


I'd prefer they work on that "belief" gene instead.


sorry that is a nice theory and all... but unfortunately atheism is only around 2% of the planets religions after removing the ideologies that are not related to atheism but still somehow fall under the same category in the graph. (which doesn't really need to be posted again)

I hope you are not getting your science from shows like Zeitgeist and or the like? but if it makes a better worldview for you then so be it, just please do not harm any living beings whilst you are still among us and on the planet...



posted on Mar, 28 2012 @ 05:45 AM
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Originally posted by Lionhearte
reply to post by ManFromEurope
 

Ahh, as I thought.


Yay, I like to write texts which are dismissed by 4 words.. Could you be a little more specific and respond to details of my text? Thanks, really.



You do realize that this same "cult", was written about by Plinius Secundus, someone who was opposed to Christ, right? You want to read what he wrote?


In the meantime, the method I have observed towards those who have been denounced to me as Christians is this: I interrogated them whether they were in fact Christians; if they confessed it, I repeated the question twice, adding the threat of capital punishment; if they still persevered, I ordered them to be executed.

...They affirmed, however, that the whole of their guilt, or their error, was that they were in the habit of meeting on a certain fixed day before it was light, when they sang in alternate verses a hymn to Christ, as to a god, and bound themselves by a solemn oath, not to perform any wicked deed, never to commit any fraud, theft or adultery, never to falsify their word, nor deny a trust when they should be called upon to make it good; after which it was their custom to separate, and then reassemble to partake of food - but food of an ordinary and innocent kind.

Sure sounds like a cult to me..


Yepp, it does, doesn't it? Of course, there are no cults who would (a) reach memberships in the millions and (b) openly admit that they are teaching fraud, theft, etc. So every cult likes to state that their canon consist of good deeds. In fact in the background the same old sins are done. Or would you like to differ?



Anyways. You don't really understand what the Bible is all about, do you? First, I don't deny that RELIGION is a tool, used by evil men, to gain power, money, whatever they want..

But you must have heard it said, "Christianity is not a Religion, but a Relationship", no? This isn't a statement of denial, it's a statement of truth. What many non-Believers (and even some who claim to have faith) don't realize, is that it isn't based on WORKS, or GOOD DEEDS, or how much money you can donate to your nearby Church.

It comes down to your belief in Christ. That's all that matters. It has nothing to do with morals, or laws; or rather, it has everything to do with them, and how mankind FAILS at being perfect. Want me to tell you what my "value" is? I'm a sinner. I lie, I steal, I cheat, I lust, I greed, I pride, I sloth, I envy, I hate, etc, etc..

The part about the sins: True, oh so true. We all are. The other part about belief and relationship: I don't think you use the word "relationship" in a way I could relate (no pun intended) to.



Not because some book or an "invisible man in space" tells me so, but because I am conscious of what I'm doing, and know that I'm powerless against it.

Waitaminute, doesn't your book tell you how to have power over your sins? What part of your book are you related to?



Also, Religious people are the ones who are afraid of Hell. Spiritual people are not, because they know they are saved - again, not because they donate 10% of their check to their Church every day, but because the believe in Christ. That's it.

Wow, sure sounds like those Old men with lots of money, influence and power are REALLY getting to us.. I wonder what their ultimate plan is for us sheep?


Yes, sounds like deep indoctrination - no questions asked, no answers given, at least no clear answers. You just have to have faith and everything is all right.
Really?
Wow, so a sinful guy like... hmm.. who's bad and not offending.. Hitler? No, he wasn't that kind of religious. Okay, for example a bad guy of another consecration like Kim Jong Ill (+2011). He had faith in his religion, I'm pretty sure. But was he a good example of a religious man? I don't think so. You just have to be a mad man with egocentrical illusions and *BAM* you are faithful, yet murderous and deep in sinsh*t. Hmmm, makes me think..




PS - that image is pretty funny, considering most of those verses the post-it notes are referring to are Historical events. It's like a police report saying "the victim was raped, and then this happened, and then that happened"

The police report is, then, considered evil by that picture's logic. Lol, okay.
Yes, its from a humorous site, so don't worry about the severity. It was meant as a logic bomb-joke.



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