It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Defiance of all Conditioning

page: 1
7
<<   2 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 03:59 PM
link   
The scientist, the politician, the christian, the buddhist, the academic, the missionary, the atheist, the philosopher... they are all equally confined by the limits of their conditioning. They all have constructed identities based on their understanding of the 'truth' and thus propagate their judgment about the world based on these beliefs. They all believe their conditioning is correct and the others are wrong. They all are causing division and conflict within this world without knowing it. Thus, all of their effort to 'heal the world', or mend the fragmentation of mankind, or understand 'higher levels of knowledge', go to waste because their beliefs create the very problems (division and conflict) they are trying to solve.

Now, it must be said that if there is anything that can be called a 'truth', then only a free-thinker can find this 'truth'. A mind limited by previous conditioning; by beliefs, methodologies and ideologies, will overlook and not see this 'truth' because its focus is too narrowed and rigid. And so a free-thinker must by definition be defiant towards all forms of authority, because "authority" by definition entails limitation.

So, If I reject all forms of authority, be it political, academic, scientific, economic, religious, societal, and so on, then I will have no choice but to find out who I am, why I am, and where I am, for myself. But if I rely on someone else; the scientist, politician, preacher, judge, teacher, parent, spouse, to give me these answers than I will have no way of knowing what is true and what is merely speculation, or worse, propaganda.
edit on 26-3-2012 by LifeIsEnergy because: (no reason given)




posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 04:28 PM
link   
reply to post by LifeIsEnergy
 


All those authority figures have a great deal to offer. I think the interdisciplinary student chooses the best route, yet he is not bound by their limits.



posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 04:29 PM
link   
Reformist = Someone who seeks change in authority through the channels of authority.

Revolutionary = Someone who seeks a change of authority; a substitution of one authority for another.

Rebel = Someone who resists or defies all forms of authority or generally accepted convention.

Be rebels...



posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 04:30 PM
link   
reply to post by LifeIsEnergy
 


Well I certainly agree that people should be free-thinking and open minded. However we can not discount all the previous knowledge mankind has amassed. You can not be all things! So somewhere down the line you have to view other peoples perceptions. It doesn't mean that you have to believe it, or agree with it, this is where critical thinking comes into play.

It would be like never telling your children that fire is hot and can burn you! We must not be limited by other people right? Perhaps fire isn't hot? Perhaps it does not burn?

I think you should hear everyone out and then deal with that information whichever way YOU decide. We must look at everything with a critical eye. But once someone can demonstrate that fire is hot and does burn we can't really argue against it, or rather it would be futile to do so.



posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 04:33 PM
link   

Originally posted by LifeIsEnergy
Reformist = Someone who seeks change in authority through the channels of authority.

Revolutionary = Someone who seeks a change of authority; a substitution of one authority for another.

Rebel = Someone who resists or defies all forms of authority or generally accepted convention.

Be rebels...


I agree with you here however! Though I don't see some of the groups you mention as authorities. I see authorities as people that use FORCE to get you to do something that you may not want to do.



posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 04:35 PM
link   
reply to post by mee30
 


Yes, I agree. Always listen to people, but never follow them. If you walk the same path as them, then so be it, but never follow their path just because they are an 'authority'. That is all I am saying. You must find out for yourself why touching a hot stove is not a good idea, or else you will never really know, you would merely be the slave to another persons authority.

Peace.
edit on 26-3-2012 by LifeIsEnergy because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 04:46 PM
link   
reply to post by LifeIsEnergy
 


right, like to me the word energy is more appropriate for powers means

for what energy basically is an absolute fact so not relative to smthg or any, then energy dont blind freedom to recognize what already exist or else freedom rights, on the contrary it is necessary to mean rights objectively

but the point that i mean here to relate to the op is about freedom being the only way for objective reality, which confirm the truth being freedom existence value

freedom is the lonely particle that can b double value

as u pointed right, freedom of all is the only way to b objective perspective at least

while the fact confirming being objective is free existence confirmation which then allow to be superior since out of all, but where that fact result energy cant be used but in energizing objective existence which become real while the free existence again become more clearly out, which again can choose to be superior alone more

the fact that there will always be else as at least before is always objective more, assert the fact that objective cant become superior, it can become more real so more free but then always more regarding absolute abstraction constant of different existence freedom facts and rights
so cant be relative to stay in truth objectivity freedom
while relative freedom is crucial there since it can mean being superior alone out of all, which is the reason of true energy add to the whole objective realisation meant in free positive terms constant of true superior freedom ends

it is very important to respect objective else superiority rights but it is very wrong to consider it superior really bc it reverse the truth

truth is freedom and freedom superiority is truth existence, so only truth should be considered superior while any relative so perspective is the else that cant be superior since negate oneself absolute free existence being also a fact



posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 04:57 PM
link   
reply to post by LifeIsEnergy
 


Well when told that fire is hot and can burn you don't have to stick your hand in to find out! lol You can put something else in the fire and watch it burn if you really want to verify it... But yes you should never just blindly follow people or their ideas. Again this can be achieved with critical thinking.

My son is 4 months old now, he was born at home unassisted! No midwife, no doctor... We researched ourselves and I can tell you it was an empowering experience!

He's not been registered either! Why would we inform another human being about the birth of another human being?

I fight authority at every chance I get! Btw because of our choice to have an unassisted homebirth we had the police force their way into our home! We even had social services called on us! We had lies told to us and about us! The system certainly didn't like the fact that we had woken up!



posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 05:03 PM
link   
i think one of the mean reason of evil freedom is the fact that there will always be else existence, so limits to positive constancy since truth is freedom and all what matter is oneself constant fact in positive growth of rights and reality

truth conception is perfect answer always, like here it says, while truth is best for words that justify it as perfect n nothing real, so here it gives the answer i gave in the previous post, subjective freedom way to be superior but truly right, yea sure look wat i got of that, watever

but truth has always an absolute answer which gives it perfect quality in concept not bc of the reason everyone expect

truth perfection is due to the fact that true freedom move for any possible objective value while never for any existing value

now what we see is bc of evil being absolute fact, so any true freedom will move for existing value abused as in depth meaning possible objective value for itself rights



posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 05:03 PM
link   
13 years ago I decided to remove all my preconceptions. What I was left with was a single belief: I exist. From there I rebuilt myself.

In many ways it was more of an unlearning than a learning experience. It certainly has it's benefits and I highly recommend it. I think with a better foundation it's easier to discern the truth and figure things out for ourselves.

Also non-duality is a useful exercise though I wouldn't suggest rejecting duality altogether, as that's another form of duality. Balance is key.



posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 05:09 PM
link   
reply to post by circlemaker
 


sorry to want to sound cynic, but yea it is logical that u value duality since it is normal to u to reject urself in being it

i dunno how u achieve even to mean that, but sure u got a key



posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 05:12 PM
link   
reply to post by LifeIsEnergy
 


I agree, to a degree. The rebellious principal could lead a person away from learning hard-earned truths discovered by others, who themselves learned from others and so on and so forth ie: the ancients of many cultures discovered quite a lot. For example, the ancient Indian Yoga masters spent a few thousand years in deep meditation in search of a first cause, some of the wisdom of which can be found in the Baghivad Gita, and the various streams of Buddhist thought, should all that be discarded? One human lifetime isn't very long, and each of us has our limits, so why not try to access the truths and learned experiences of others, why be a rebel just to be a rebel, makes no sense and could end up leading a person astray. Maybe the truth has it's own spiritual authority ie: God?



posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 05:12 PM
link   
reply to post by circlemaker
 


Yes, I think this should be an ongoing process, if new information comes to light we should put it up against our critical thinking and then adjust ourselves accordingly... I've always been a critical thinker, even without knowing it... When I was a kid the IRA were the bogeymen of the time, my dad wouldn't take us to mcdonalds because he said they funded the IRA indirectly (whether this was true or not it was good to not take us there anyway!).

People would say they were cowards for bombing places and not wearing uniforms. I thought, hmmmm, but don't we drop bombs out of planes? Don't we have undercover police? Aren't we in their bloody country? What would we do if they invaded us?

I've never bought into it!



posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 05:14 PM
link   
reply to post by mee30
 


Wow, that is a crazy story. Have you wrote a thread about this? If so I'd love to read it. I tip my hat to you.


And sure, I put a branch into the fire and see it burns it so I know fire burns things. But until I get burned I won't actually know what being burned feels like. Does this mean you should encourage your son to burn himself so he knows not to touch things that are really hot? No, of course not. But once he does burn himself, which he will at some point, then and only then will he really understand for himself why getting burned should be avoided.

Same thing goes for all of life. You could tell him doing drugs is not good for him, but until he does it and sees for himself the side effects and consequences of doing that, he will not really know why doing drugs is not that great of an idea. He may just take your word for it, and you may or may not be lying to him. And again, you could tell him to be careful of black kids who wear hoodies at night time because statistically there is reason to be cautious of such a thing, but until he actually encounters black kids who wear hoodies at night time, he will not know if what you say has any validity or not. (Sorry, last examples not really that good, lol)



posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 05:26 PM
link   
reply to post by NewAgeMan
 


Any knowledge that must be accumulated is only going to be conventional knowledge, and conventional knowledge is always based on authority, thus entails division and conflict. So conventional knowledge is never going to solve our problems, because it is creating the problems.

"I believe God created the world 5 thousand years ago because I accept Biblical authority, so I absolutely refuse to accept or listen to anyone spouting that Newtonian Physics nonsense."

Or, "I believe Newtonian Physics is the truth so I refuse to accept the authority of Quantum Mechanics..."

It's all divisions, and this process is endless. So, yes, learn, listen and study all of these things, but do not accept them as your authority of 'truth' because that establishes divisions, thus conflict.

And becoming a rebel just to be a 'rebel', is defeating the whole purpose of being a rebel. Be defiant to even the idea of being defiant, otherwise "defiance" is just another form of authority.



posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 05:30 PM
link   
so the point of truth is true freedom always superiority sense alone, while the point of evil is the useless character of superiority if alone

and we have the middle which is nothing but then not true so since there is smthg evil grow in possessing what exist for evil oness life

the middle point is the rejection to face alone what is more powerful or more existing, that is why the main point of the world in absolute fact is the nonpoint of being free
everyone is happy to be limited attached to absolute positive objective and subjective wills
noone sees the value of identifying oneself in truth, to everyone it is like being truly free is loosing the will of being free

but of course evil powers is responsable reason, while i can see how noone choose to b objectively true alone for what everyone see in others its life and not in truth



posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 05:44 PM
link   
reply to post by LifeIsEnergy
 

"Facts" are not knowledge, I agree with you. By knowledge I mean experiencial knowledge ie: if I re-read Jesus' parable of the good Samaritan, and research it's context and intended meaning and significance, it's meaningless unless and until it resonates with something deep inside. It's not knowledge until I "grok" it, to borrow a strange term from Robert Heinlein's "A Stranger in a Strange Land."



posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 05:57 PM
link   
reply to post by LifeIsEnergy
 


No I've not written a thread about it, it was crazy! The midwives called the police when I canceled a midwife appointment (thought I was being considerate). They told the police that they didn't even know my partner was pregnant! Even though she had been to midwife appointments and had proof! Even though in the UK there is no law saying you even have to attend these anyway!

He was 3 days old when they arrived with the police! They forced their way in using section 17 of pace (life and limb). Apparently being alive is a risk to life and limb! (sorry for my excessive use of exclamation marks). In the UK you have the right to not consent to any treatment or care, as parents you have the say on this. I was protesting the whole time (without swearing or shouting) and I was accused by the midwives as being "intimidating" even though they arrived at my door with 2 guys with sticks! When I mentioned they need consent they threatened us with the social services and left! My partner was petrified and demanded they come back in to see that he was fine. They did and he was. Personally I would of told them not to let the door hit them on the way out!

Anyway even though our son was fine they still called the social services! They came a couple weeks later and asked to come in, I told them where to go! At the same time I was in the process of going through the police complaints procedure (what a joke that was). Anyway a few hours later they arrived again with the police! I sent them packing once again! I told the police to be careful as I already had a complaint in! The social services were saying that our son had missed his 6 weeks and 8 weeks check up. He was 3 weeks old at the time! And there is no law in the UK to say you must attend these!

They were saying they had to investigate all our kids now etc. And even at one point threatened to remove our children! We didn't hear back from them again! It was a policeman that informed us that they had no concerns weeks later! That was only because I was in contact with them regarding my complaint and only because I had told them what happened.

During the police complaint they told us that they could not accept a statement written by me and signed by my partner! This is a lie! We ended up having to go through the ipcc! Still nothing came of it... Afterwards we moved to a new area and just didn't want to put any more energy into the complete waste of time! We had planned on moving anyway because we lived in a fairly bad area.

Sorry about the long reply! lol

And yes I will agree that you won't know how it feels until you get burned, though don't jinx it, he's been through enough already!


The whole thing left me really angry but I tried not to let it tarnish the beautiful experience I had watching my son being born! It truly was amazing!



posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 06:09 PM
link   
 


off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 06:11 PM
link   
Oh one more thing, when my partner was pregnant she was called into the doctors because of her blood results. They wouldn't tell her what the problem was, even on the phone. When you are pregnant you are supposed to avoid stress!

Anyway we go to see what this earth shattering news was. She was 1 point below the threshold for her iron! They prescribed my partner ferrous fumorate. I asked him what was in it! He didn't know! I told him that I believe the health care industry panders to the pharmaceuticals industry, and I didn't trust them! He actually said to me "we don't get our drugs off pharmaceutical companies anymore"! So where do they come from? Big dave? lol.

So anyway I got onto the net and researched what this crap was! The key parts were that the drug is "UNKNOWN" whether it is harmful to an unborn baby! That was on drugs.com. The dose in the tablet was over twice the recommended daily allowance for a pregnant woman! Why didn't he advise eating more veg rich in iron?

The world is a crazy, sick place!

I question everything!



new topics

top topics



 
7
<<   2 >>

log in

join