ANNUNAKI CHROMOSOME # versus that of CroMag/Neanderthal versus that of Human/Homo sapiens

Originally posted by BiggerPicture
There is no natural evolutionary way:

1) Evolution from ape to human just "looses" two chromosomes (1 pair). It is impossible.

It is certainly possible during meiosis.

2) Chromosomes 2 and 3 just "fuse" into one long jumbo doubled-up chromosome

No, but large scale duplication events certainly take place between chromosomes. And when one is redundant, then it is easily filtered out through evolution.

reply to post by Phage


That looks like Cluckerspud... That is what happens when you eat the ROOTS.. supposed to eat the FRUIT

Originally posted by rigel4
different species have different amounts of chromosomes.

isn't that the point? humans and apes are a different species

Originally posted by plube
I personally would not necessarily say it is proof....but i to believe that we were messed with genetically....we were a existing species on the planet...Neanderthal. Not a decent enough slave for the off worlders...just not intelligent enough for them to manipulate...they needed a better slave....so here we are....once we were created....they needed to create a story....they needed us to believe them that they were our creators....they created god....they needed us to fear GOD.....it is always easier to control through fear....look at the way we have controlled animals in the wild kingdom.....yes i agree.....our DNA was messed with....and it was done for breeding purposes....to make and create better slaves....to all my fellow humans.....WELCOME TO SLAVERY....and we are still slaves.....but fortunately for humanity as a whole...some of us slave are waking up....and you know what.....OUR creators do not like it.

I agree 100% and belive to this day the genetic manipulation and mental bondage is taking place today. Alien abductions explained.

As a child I never thought the stories of how we are they way we are made any sense. I embrace all the different races, maybe this is an experiment to see if we can rise above our differences to get along, or is it going to dive us from each other forever? I always felt we were different alien species geneticallly put here to live on planet Earth together. I have been made fun of for saying that outloud to family members. I think it scares them.

Mental bondage is this the social conditioning of work hard, and ask no questions, or you'll be a social outcast?
Overcoming the shame to want to know more, and researching the answers, despite family disapproval. It amazes me how college educated people want to act like osteriches on this question, where did we all come from? It is almost as if people are programed to shut down on these issues.

The abductions, may be happening to have people work on other planets and mine or assemble their technology.
Every year many people just end up missing, taken without a clue.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by BiggerPicture

 

There is no natural evolutionary way:

1) Evolution from ape to human just "looses" two chromosomes (1 pair). It is impossible.
2) Chromosomes 2 and 3 just "fuse" into one long jumbo doubled-up chromosome

Why not? Evolution is about changes in the genome. Not all chromosomes have the same number of genes.

There may have been a fusion of chromosomes on the part of humans, or a split of chromosomes in other apes. It doesn't really matter. And it doesn't mean that we did not evolve from a common ancestor.

edit on 3/26/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)

True.

But evolution does not occur in an 'overnight' (in archaelogical means) process....in the natural evolutionary order of things, other species (especially the primate) has 3-4 million year gaps between each stage.

Humans, however, came on the scene in a less than 30 thousand years time span.

Modern man did not go through the 'natural process'. In fact, modern man seems to have 'quantum leaped'.

There is also the consideration that the human race did not develop from another singular hominid group, Neanderthals, Hobbits and Denisovans are now getting thrown in the DNA regional admixtures, none of whom we should have been able to breed with as they had the regular 24 chromosomes of the hominid.

reply to post by BiggerPicture


I love threads about macro evolution by people that don't understand biology. Almost as funny as the people going on and on about physics.

reply to post by ButterCookie

But evolution does not occur in an 'overnight' (in archaelogical means) process....in the natural evolutionary order of things, other species (especially the primate) has 3-4 million year gaps between each stage.

Dmitry Konstantinovich Belyaev has proven otherwise. He performed an experiment using Silver Foxes and was able to show a significant evolutionary change in the animals within 10 generations of litters. That is how ancient man was able to domesticate the wolf. By selecting the least skittish of animals and continuously breeding them.

After about ten generations of controlled breeding, these domesticated silver foxes no longer showed any fear of humans and often wagged their tails and licked their human caretakers to show affection. They also started to have spotted coats, floppy ears, and curled tails.

If the ancient aliens had any influence on human history then maybe there was no need for genetic manipulation. Maybe they were in search of the most timid hominids and bred them together to domesticate us.

Originally posted by olliemc84
reply to post by ButterCookie

 

But evolution does not occur in an 'overnight' (in archaelogical means) process....in the natural evolutionary order of things, other species (especially the primate) has 3-4 million year gaps between each stage.

Dmitry Konstantinovich Belyaev has proven otherwise. He performed an experiment using Silver Foxes and was able to show a significant evolutionary change in the animals within 10 generations of litters. That is how ancient man was able to domesticate the wolf. By selecting the least skittish of animals and continuously breeding them.

After about ten generations of controlled breeding, these domesticated silver foxes no longer showed any fear of humans and often wagged their tails and licked their human caretakers to show affection. They also started to have spotted coats, floppy ears, and curled tails.

If the ancient aliens had any influence on human history then maybe there was no need for genetic manipulation. Maybe they were in search of the most timid hominids and bred them together to domesticate us.

edit on 26-3-2012 by olliemc84 because: added quote

Not exactly right, but close.. wolves domesticated themselves. The less skittish of the wolf populations would get closer to man and feed on his garbage. During especially hard winters, these were the wolves that would be most likely to procreate. Repeat this process and a tame dog emerges.

Evolution has so many gaps in it, its almost as bad as our history books.
More likely your right with this theory then they are with their facts!

All species on this planet evolved from a common ancestor. To say that the only way we could lose two chromosomes is genetic engineering is to say that EVERY SPECIES on this planet has been genetically engineered.
Do you reckon?

Yap yap yap...

i'm still waiting to hear what non-engineered species on Earth (other than human)

suddenly doubled up chromosomes and lost a whole pair of them, in their divergent "evolution"

I think evolution and creation walk hand in hand. But I always think of this when ever someone starts this debate.
Before anything can evolve it must first be created. Without some form of creation there is nothing to evolve.From a flower to an animal , to a thought. The spark of life has to first occur.
Take this substance for example.No one knows where it came from and why it's in everything.
This is why I tend to lean towards "intelligent design".

'___' is ubiquitous in plants.[3] It occurs as trace amounts in mammals, including humans, where it may putatively function as a trace amine neurotransmitter.[4] It is originally derived from the essential amino acid tryptophan and ultimately produced by the enzyme INMT during normal metabolism.[5] The natural significance of its widespread presence remains undetermined.

I have not really run across anything that has explained in a satisfying way the reason we have so many genetic disorders that are FATAL before reaching any possible procreative stage in life.

If someone were to be born with a defect of that magnitude, how could it possibly have been passed on to a decendent and become part of our genome?

That's the one sticky soup point that I can't stop thinking about when it comes to what has happened with our ancestors.

I've been studying this for the past several months actually. I have some evidence for and against the tenants of the OP.

Firstly chromosome fusion has occured in other species and yes they can sometimes reproduce an example is the mongolian horse.

The karyotype of the domestic horse differs from that of Przewalski’s horse by an extra chromosome pair either because of the fission of domestic horse chromosome 5 in Przewalski’s horse or fusion of Przewalski’s horse chromosomes 23 and 24 in the domestic horse. In comparison, the chromosomal differences between domestic horses and zebras include numerous translocations, fusions, and inversions. Przewalski’s horse is known to have the highest diploid chromosome number among all equine species. Przewalski’s horse can interbreed with the domestic horse and produce fertile offspring (65 chrosomes)

en.wikipedia.org...

But...

I am not a Darwinist and evolution does happen. Darwinist make the claim that the chromosome fusion is absolute evidence of common descent. However it is just as equally possible that early humans had 48 chromosomes and the fusion occured early in the human lineage and may have nothing to do with primates.

It's just darwinian cherry picking while leaving out the rest of the facts. They are pretty good at that as well as reconciling any inconsistancies with unfounded "just so" stories, not real science.

Another major point is that the 2q13 interstitial telomeric sequence (the fused one) is the ONLY one which is able to be associated with an evolutionary breakage point or fusion. The other ones do not square up with chromosomal breakpoints in primates at all!

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

It's the ONLY one that lines up with the chimp, yet the fusion is absolute proof ? Rubbish. It's misleading at best and deception at worst.

I'n fact we are quite different genetically to chimps, the old myth of being 98% similiar is picking and choosing is quite simply wrong. The protein coding sequences are in fact 94% to 96% similar yet this only makes up less than 2% of the entire gene sequence. If we compare the whole genome against the chimp we are only around 70% similar.

In the past they ignored junk dna in the comparisons as well as using gene matching software to match pieces only of the coding sequences to arrive at the 94 to 96% similarity.

The chimp genome is actually 10 to 12% larger than the humans. that's quite a significant difference right there even without genetic comparison.

The Y chromosome is drastically different and shows what appears to be incredibly rapid evolution, too rapid for the standard rates of darwinian population genetics.

The common chimp (Pan troglodytes) and human Y chromosomes are "horrendously different from each other", says David Page of the Whitehead Institute for Biomedical Research in Cambridge, Massachusetts, who led the work.

"It looks like there's been a dramatic renovation or reinvention of the Y chromosome in the chimpanzee and human lineages."

Even more striking than the gene loss is the rearrangement of large portions of the chromosome. More than 30% of the chimp Y chromosome lacks an alignable counterpart on the human Y chromosome, and vice versa, whereas this is true for less than 2% of the remainder of the genome.

Even the portions that do line up have undergone erratic relocation. In the only other chromosome to have been sequenced to the same degree of completeness in both species, chromosome 21, the authors found much less rearrangement.

"If you're marching along the human chromosome 21, you might as well be marching along the chimp chromosome 21. It's like an unbroken piece of glass," says Page. "But the relationship between the human and chimp Y chromosomes has been blown to pieces."

www.nature.com...

Interesting eh?

"It looks like there's been a dramatic renovation or reinvention of the Y chromosome in the chimpanzee and human lineages."

reply to post by Jomina


Founder's Effect has a lot to do with which populations have certain genetic traits and which do not. Tay-Sachs, for instance, is something very common in my people, Ashekenazi Jews. Even though I am most assuredly a carrier of Tay-Sachs, I cannot create a person with the disorder unless I procreate with someone who is also a carrier. So, in theory, this gene could pass for 5 generations of my offspring until one of my progeny attempts to procreate with someone else that is a carrier of Tay-Sachs. That could literally be hundreds of people under me that are fine until that one person finds another carrier to procreate with.

I hope that helps your journey for knowledge, friend.

Regarding the bizarre human Y chromosome,

it doesn't resemble chimp/ape Y chromosomes because it is not of primate/simian/neanderthal/cromag or other earthly hominid origin indeed!

The maternal X chromosome, as well as the mitochondrial (maternal) DNA, are more expectedly similar to chimp/ape genetics as F1 humans were the result of male Anu sperm X ge female earth hominid egg (and not vice versa).

Originally posted by squiz

Firstly chromosome fusion has occured in other species and yes they can sometimes reproduce an example is the mongolian horse.

Case in point, the wild/mongolian horse was DOMESTICATED and so lost a pair of chromosomes during the genetic engineering.

Mongolian horse: 66 chromosomes
Dometicated horse: 64 chromosomes

I'm still waiting to see a non-engineered species that naturally evolved to suddenly have 2 chromosomes fuse and lose a whole pair of chromosomes...

My point which it seem everyone so far is evading is: metacentric chromosomy IS a marker for genetic engineering. Were hominids domesticated? Sure - and by WHO? and for what purpose?

Originally posted by BiggerPicture

Case in point, the wild/mongolian horse was DOMESTICATED and so lost a pair of chromosomes during the genetic engineering.

Mongolian horse: 66 chromosomes
Dometicated horse: 64 chromosomes

I wouldn't call domestication genetic engineering, In fact some new evidence has shown that the variants in species has very little to do with the underlying dna. Variants with domestication or enviromental pressures are now showing to be nothing more than epigenic modificatios while leaving the underlying genetic code intact. So darwinist once again have to back off from thier central dogma. I can cite the study if you wish.

The divergence in this case is said to have happened about 160,000 years ago putting the mongolian horse somewhere in the middle as far as domestication goes.

Intelligent selective breeding has much the same effect as enviromental pressures doing the selecting.

I hope you read the rest of my post because it could be interpreted to support your premise.