Race in the Bible. Who are the real Jews?

First, I'd like to say that I think the color of your skin has nothing to do with what type of person you are. I mean this thread to be a light but informative debate aimed at clearing up some preconceived notions about the people of the Bible, in particular the mysterious Isrealites. On the way we might solve some eschatalogical riddles, historical accounts or genetic puzzles!

Who were the Isrealites?

The Isrealites are the product of Jacob (Israel), Abraham's grandson; the descendants of Shem, progeintor of the Semitic-Assyrian worlds. Jacob's twelve sons are to become the twelve tribes of Israel, but because of a famine Jacob and his sons are made to go into Egypt and would remain there for 430 years... The Isrealites must have looked similar to the Egyptians

Now, the Egyptians (Derived from the word Kemet meaning black as in negroid) themselves can be described as a melting pot, resembling the modern African-American population. My idea is that Egyptian dynasties swayed between dark skin and brown skin Africans. I find the depiction of the pharaoh Huni, to have some strikingly profound Nubian like features; his son was Sneferu and his son was Kufre, the pharaoh the pyramids are attributed to. The archaeologist Batrawi notes:

Since early neolithic times there existed two distinct but closely related types, a northern in Middle Egypt and a southern in Upper Egypt. The southern Egyptians were distinguished from the northerners by a smaller cranial index, a larger nasal index and greater prognathism. The geographical distinction between the two groups continued during the Pre-Dynastic Period. The Upper Egyptians, however, spread into lower Nubia during that period. By the beginning of the Dynastic era the northern Egyptian type is encountered for the first time in the Thebaïd, i.e., in the southern territory. The incursion, however, seems to have been transitory and the effects of the co-existence of the two types in one locality remained very transient until the 18th Dynasty. From this time onwards the northern type prevailed all over Egypt, as far south as Denderah, till the end of the Roman period. In Lower Nubia a slight infiltration of negroid influence is observed during the Middle Kingdom times. In the New Empire period, however, the southern Egyptian type prevails again. After the New Empire a fresh and much stronger negro influence becomes discernable till the end of the Roman period. (The Journal of the Royal Anthropological Institute, 75:1945, pp. 81-101; 76:1946, pp. 131-56)

Several Greek historians such as Diodorus, Siculus, and Herodotus describe the Egyptians as black, dark-skinned, wooly-haired, and with thick lips. I don't think their statements can be taken as to be representative of the whole population.

The Bible says to escape infanticide, Moses was sent up the river. He passed as an Egyptian, he looked like an Egyptian. In Numbers 12:1, Moses marries a cu#e woman, and his siblings Miriam and Aaron object. They weren't mad because Moses married a black women, they were mad because he married a different ethnicity. Then Yahweh punishes Miriam for this, by turning her white for 7 days!

"When the cloud lifted from above the Tent, there stood Miriam--leprous, like snow. Aaron turned toward her and saw that she had leprosy;" - Numbers 12:10

Furthermore, the book of Leviticus gives us much more insight on the healthy skin tone of the Isrealites and the plague of the Lepors.

"And if the priest examines the itching disease and it appears no deeper than the skin and there is no black hair in it, then the priest shall shut up the person with the itching disease for seven days" - Leviticus 13:31

The Isrealites had natural black hair. If the priest finds blonde/yellow hair on the person it was a sign of Leprosy. Could blonde hair have been the product of disease? It seems that within the Isrealite population, that being white was seen as a curse. If a person had Leprosy, he was cast out of society, as their affliction was brought on by their sins, so they started colonies and bred.

But here we have the most conclusive and potent description about the pre-exodus Isrealites and the exilic Isrealites:

"For the chastisement of the daughter of my people has been greater than the punishment of Sodom, which was overthrown in a moment, and no hands were wrung for her. Her princes were purer than snow, whiter than milk; their bodies were more ruddy than coral, the beauty of their form was like sapphire. Now their face is blacker than soot; they are not recognized in the streets; their skin has shriveled on their bones; it has become as dry as wood." -Lamentations 4:6-8

Before they went into the land of Egypt, their complexion was white. In complete contrast, after the famine that forces them into Egypt (brought on by their transgressions) they are dark skinned blacks.

Are the Jews today the biblical Isrealites?

I am new to this subject, so pardon me if I make some incorrect statements.

So am I to think that the Jews of the holocaust, the ashkenazi Jews (desendants of Gomer), are really the dark-skinned biblical Jews? And how is it possible that God's chosen people are descendants of a gentile nation?

I fervently think that Jews have no legitimate claim to exist in that land, and it's establishment was purely political.

Who are the fake Jews of Revelations 2:9? Am I really to think that the Rothschild's are the Jews that undergo tribulations to this day? For denying the Son of God and turning their backs on God they are made to suffer the curses of Leviticus 16?

“‘I know your tribulation and your poverty (but you are rich) and the slander of those who say that they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan." - Revelations 2:9

I always thought that the fake Jews were the manipulative money whores (IMF), and the real Jews were the orthodox Jews, but I no longer hold this position! They simply cannot be Jews! Where are their tribulations and poverty? Israel seems to be pretty healthy to me...

So if, the Jews aren't the biblical Jews, where did they go?

*None of what I said was anti-semitic*

Peace brothers, thanks for taking the time to read this.

reply to post by CaptainNemo
This group suggests jews are from another planet.

Originally posted by Mandrakerealmz
reply to post by CaptainNemo

 

This group suggests jews are from another planet.

Wow thanks for keeping me up for another hour.

reply to post by CaptainNemo

Now, the Egyptians (Derived from the word Kemet meaning black as in negroid) themselves can be described as a melting pot, resembling the modern African-American population.

Many people will disagree with this statement, especially Egyptologists. They claim that Kemet refers to the black alluvial soil of the Nile flood plains, instead of the people. I still think the population of Ancient Egypt would have consisted of many different ethnic groups throughout the ~3,000 years it lasted.

reply to post by IEtherianSoul9


I tend to disagree with egyptologists on some crucial points. I think we all can agree that Egypt was a really astonishing place. I would say let the artwork speak for itself, but that would just create more problems. For a long time they only had a few dyes red, white and black. I remember reading somewhere that the reason they depicted their pharaoh's with red skin as a distinguishing factor for regality, meaning that they received more sunlight than their subjects.

I agree with IEtherianSoul9. Kemet, as I understood it, refers to the black silt that used to be deposited with the annual Nile flood prior to the Aswan Dam being built. It is the etymological root of the words chemistry, alchemy etc., a reflection of the transformative effect the Kem had on the fertility of Egypt's soil. (Interesting wee side note - the God of the Nile flood is 'Happi' - who is depicted as both male and female with a wee pot belly and a satisfied smile).

The Bible may well tell us that the Israelites were 'slaves' in Egypt for 430 years but it tells us that nowhere in Egypt. Nubians are often depicted as slaves - but not Israelites. This in a land where almost every square inch of monument is covered in hieroglyphics.

There is evidence that the Israelites lived there - and that they married into the Pharaohonic lineage.

A tale that I find most interesting is that Akhenaten, who was Tutankhamon's daddy, and created the 'One God' (Aten) cult in Egypt was non other than Moses.(The time line does not discount the theory) He denied Egyptians their usual spiritual practices and was not a popular Pharaoh. (Images of him are quite distinctive from the stylised perfection of other Pharaohs - they depicted Akhenaten withflaws and all - too thin face, sticky out ears. During his reign he built a city called Akhetaten in honour of Aten which was completely abandoned and destroyed after his 'death'.

This theory has it that the 40 years wandering in the desert described in Exodus was, in fact, a 40 year emigration from Egypt of Akhenaten's one God cult followers to a place where they could practice in peace.

For some reason or another, I find the topic of the Hebrew/Israelite/Jews to be very interesting. Even more interesting is when you begin to distinguish Zionism from Judaism... Sephardic from Mizrahi from Ashkenazi.

Mitochondrial DNA tests have proven that historic African Jews do exist. Most notable are the Ethiopian Jews or Beta Israelites.


Something that has had me speculating recently:

Does anyone have definitive evidence for or against the Jutes and original Danes of Denmark being Jews?

Originally posted by Mandrakerealmz
reply to post by CaptainNemo

 

This group suggests jews are from another planet.

is that a group or the Chipmunks Alvin and Lee? seriously how can anybody watch without in the first 15 seconds consider it tripe? regardless of what they say...

there are so many of these "information" videos floating around one can pick up right from the start if they are approaching it seriously or not.

this must be the guy who made Zitgeist?

uninterested...

Something that has had me speculating recently:

Does anyone have definitive evidence for or against the Jutes and original Danes of Denmark being Jews?

I would like to hear,what you have heard or what has drawn you to speculate this some more.Your speculation is correct, the Dane's are the biblical tribe of Dan.The monarchy will quite proudly tell you this.Just remember the role of Dan.

Originally posted by 13th Zodiac
I would like to hear,what you have heard or what has drawn you to speculate this some more.Your speculation is correct, the Dane's are the biblical tribe of Dan.The monarchy will quite proudly tell you this.Just remember the role of Dan.

all westerners... it does not matter you skin color, if they live in the western way they have Hebrew/Jewish in them.

only this makes sense to me I suppose but I thought everyone should kinda know.

reply to post by SisyphusRide
? I didn't even understand the point in your comment? You take things less serious when depicted easily and cheaply in cartoon form?

Why? not enough CGI for you? lol

If you don't like the Spirit Science series then that's you

Originally posted by SisyphusRide

Originally posted by 13th Zodiac
I would like to hear,what you have heard or what has drawn you to speculate this some more.Your speculation is correct, the Dane's are the biblical tribe of Dan.The monarchy will quite proudly tell you this.Just remember the role of Dan.

all westerners... it does not matter you skin color, if they live in the western way they have Hebrew/Jewish in them.

only this makes sense to me I suppose but I thought everyone should kinda know.

edit on 26-3-2012 by SisyphusRide because: (no reason given)

Unfortunately it does only make sense to you. How did you come to that conclusion?

Originally posted by SisyphusRide

Originally posted by 13th Zodiac
I would like to hear,what you have heard or what has drawn you to speculate this some more.Your speculation is correct, the Dane's are the biblical tribe of Dan.The monarchy will quite proudly tell you this.Just remember the role of Dan.

all westerners... it does not matter you skin color, if they live in the western way they have Hebrew/Jewish in them.

only this makes sense to me I suppose but I thought everyone should kinda know.

edit on 26-3-2012 by SisyphusRide because: (no reason given)

Unfortunately it does only make sense to you. How did you come to that conclusion?

If someone could answer me this question, it would greatly help my studies:

Was the crucifixion of Christ the fulfillment of the curses of Leviticus 16 or Dueteronomy 28?

reply to post by CaptainNemo


To answer your question. Yes. There is a Leviticus 26 curse involved there. And it basically starts with these 3 lines in Malachi 4.

4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.
5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

Why is this important. Look in Matthew 17.

10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?
11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

After looking at Malachi I'm convinced that the death of John the Baptist wasn't supposed to have happened. He was supposed to have been there when Jesus Christ had cleaned out the moneychangers and they were supposed to have started the new kingdom the Jews were expecting in the first century AD.

Instead they triggered the curse of Malachi. And here is the details on that. Read the book of Hosea end to end and compare it to the language of Leviticus 26. Then look closely at verse 6-2 which says this in conjunction with 2nd Peter 3-8

6-2
After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

3-8
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Simply put Herod triggered a 2000 year top level Leviticus 26 curse on the Jews and Israelites. And If you look at the history of the past 2000 years you can see they have been serving it.

Now that being said lets answer your initial question. Are the Jews today the biblical Israelites? The answer is mostly No. But. The Israelis are supposed to be there. Here's why. Read the parable of Matthew 21-33 in light of the curse.

33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:
34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.
35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.
36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.
37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.
38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.
40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.
46 But when they sought to lay hands on him, they feared the multitude, because they took him for a prophet.

The Jews of the first century AD have been rejected by God. They've been replaced by another people.

The Kazars

They are the Ashkenazi Jews.

They practice the religion but are not genetically Jews per se. And that begs the question. Where did the 1st century Jews go? Answer. Not far.

Look at the prophesies of Genesis 48 and 49. According to them the descendants of Israel were to become countries. And Ephraim was to become a multitude of countries. And the individuals were to become as countless as the stars in the sky. So who are they? Why, they are the Palestinians. And the Arabs. And the Persians. And the other peoples of the middle east.

Continued.

reply to post by ntech


The Israelites have been polluting the gene pool of the middle east as far back as Egypt and Moses. They're all Jews now.