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Jesus Dreams, Visions, Vistations Among Muslims--Various Reports and Related Issues

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posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 06:38 AM
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reply to post by BO XIAN
 


I don't know either, but a LOT of people speak English in Iran and can easily tell others what it says in Farsi for those who cannot.




posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 07:17 AM
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Hey Bo!

I was having serious deja vu when I read your thread, and after a little searching, I realised why!
You had posted this exact same topic almost 5 years ago! You should have linked that in this thread.

Here, let me link it:
Muslims Seeing visions of Jesus
An interesting change I noticed....back then the claim was 500 to "more than one million", but now (in your other thread) it is "200 to 370,000".

As well as my original response in that thread, which I find very applicable still here, considering lonewolf's comment, which shows something of a lack of knowledge of muslim beliefs and understandings about the Prophets:

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
Besides these are muslim, why in the world would they dream about Yeshua? He's nothing more than a human prophet to them, the Quran isn't even built around Christ, it's built around Muhammad.


Here is what I said back then:

Originally posted by babloyi
Having dreams about the Prophets seems to be not an uncommon thing in the muslim world. I even knew someone who as a child used to dream of Prophet Moses. She gave the most weird and inane details, such as "He had a unibrow, and he spoke in a stutter".


But that thread reminded me about what old-timers me and you arre, Bo!

I seem to remember you claiming back then that you weren't christian (even while defending Judeo-Christian viewpoints and attacking muslim ones). Seems that has changed now.
edit on 27-3-2012 by babloyi because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 12:49 PM
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All those reports could be a lie..

Our brains are too complex to know how they work.

Other people see krishna or say they were abducted by aliens, but you woudent believe them..

Reports or testimonies are not sufficient enough to claim something as being The Truth.



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 01:55 PM
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reply to post by babloyi
 



I don't recall ever claiming I was not Christian.

I may have cited close friends of mine who were not Christian.

I don't have any explanation for the different estimates on the numbers.

Perhaps they refined their raw data and the estimates therefrom.



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 01:58 PM
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reply to post by 0thetrooth0
 



For s small percentage . . . that might be logical.

It is NOT logical for so many hundreds, now thousands of cases.



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 02:14 PM
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reply to post by BO XIAN
 


Your just repeating what someone else said, its not like you personally talked with each person who claimed to see jesus

If they are true, we cant know for sure what caused them. Theres also conflicting reports so jesus cant be appearing to all of them



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 02:16 PM
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reply to post by BO XIAN
 


Another thing.. I dont know what kind of Christian are you, but if you read some lives of some Catholic saints youll see they see jesus, visit heaven hell, do miracles etc. So whats going on here?

If your not a Catholic yourself, how do you know all these stories are false?



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 03:55 PM
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reply to post by 0thetrooth0
 



I try and limit my reports to the more credible organiations and individuals.

Ignore the evidence if you wish.

Yes, I believe that some RC's over history have been/are authentic Christians and have had authentic Holy Spirit inspired visions, dreams, visitations.

I don't believe even all the church approved such have been authentically Holy Spirit fostered/inspired.

I've only scratched the surface of the reports of Muslims seeing Jesus.



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 05:31 PM
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reply to post by BO XIAN
 




How do you know its not satan trying to convince them that Christianity is the truth, but actually Islam is the truth...?

How can they know for sure its Jesus? Its not like we have a picture of how he looked?

How do you determine who is credible and who isn't?



posted on Mar, 28 2012 @ 02:01 AM
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Sorry guy's , BUT we MUSLIMS live by logic! NOT by DREAMS.



posted on Mar, 28 2012 @ 06:18 AM
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reply to post by DumbTopSecretWriters
 


If that's the case, then you just refuted your own religion because the Qu'ran was written based on dreams from Muhammad, who didn't even have assistance from God to perform miracles. Logic would tell you that if what Muhammad was teaching was the truth, God would have worked through him in this way, but He didn't.



posted on Mar, 28 2012 @ 09:25 AM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 


If I told you that the device you're using right now to read my post was created itself from nothing after an explosion at a factory you would say I'm affected with madness. But of course, how can a small, complex, well organised device which is made perfectly for us to use be made by chance and without any intelligent designer. It's absolutely stupid to say such a thing. But when I say that the Universe and everything in it, with all its beauty and incredibly complex systems which is beyond human comprehension but so perfectly designed and precisely regulated and provides for every one of our needs, was created by an All-Powerful Being, Who is Sustaining this Universe every moment, Who is Most Gracious and Merciful, you say I'm mad? loool



posted on Mar, 28 2012 @ 09:55 AM
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reply to post by DumbTopSecretWriters
 


What does that have to do with my reply to you?

I'm a Christian. I believe in the Bible and God as the Creator.



posted on Mar, 28 2012 @ 10:02 AM
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Almost every individual here seems to think that Jesus apparently manifesting himself into the dreams of certain individuals caused the conversion to another religion. There are just as many people who have witnessed the Prophet Muhammad in their dreams and have also converted to Islam; people really need to take this into account. Do you really think that the 1 billion+ Muslims in this world were all Muslims because their parents were? Think about that. Surely there are a ton of individuals who have converted to Islam, whether it be through actually researching with an open mind, seeings things in their dreams, or anything else. And one thing that I have noticed was that -every- individual that I have encountered who said they had a dream of Prophet Muhammad, were the most pious of people. Every -single- one. They were so very peaceful, so very nice and loving; it was a blessing to see this.


“Those of you with the truest dreams will be those who are most honest in speech” (Source: Sahih Muslim, vol 4, pg, 1224, no. 5621).


As for the seeing of Jesus in dreams. Those in Christianity and those who do not know about this following hadith do not really know, or rather, deny this, that Satan can take the form of any individual except the Prophet Muhammad; this includes any of the other prophets (Jesus, Moses, Noah, Adam, etc)


Narrated Anas: The Prophet said, "Whoever has seen me in a dream, then no doubt, he has seen me, for Satan cannot imitate my shape. - 'Interpretation of Dreams' of Sahih Bukhari.


Furthermore, it is a major sin to lie about a Dream. Taking note of this incase people jump to that conclusion


Prophet Muhammad (S) said, "Indeed the worst of lies is that of a person who falsely claims to have a dream." (Sahih Al-Bukhari) also 'Whoever claims to have dream which he did not have, will be ordered to tie two barley grains together, which he will never be able to do; and if somebody eavesdrop on some people's conversation which they didn't want him to hear or they tried to keep away from him, then molten lead will be poured into his ears on the Day of Resurrection; and whosoever makes a picture (of a being with a soul) will be punished on the Day of Resurrection and (will) be ordered to put a soul in it, which he will not be able to do." (Sahih Al-Bukhari)



posted on Mar, 28 2012 @ 10:13 AM
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reply to post by XxForgottenLegendxX
 



I do not believe you can BEGIN to show anything like the numbers of people seeing Jesus as Muslims and converting to Christianity . . . on the other side of the issue.

Where are the articles?

Where's the 100's of first person accounts?

Where's the data?

I can't imagine that you'd find 100--much less the many hundreds already in evidence.

I doubt you can find 1 dozen such cases of Christians seeing Muhammed and converting to Islam.

And I'm fairly certain that you can't find even 3 cases of AUTHENTIC Christians doing so.

Nevertheless, go ahead . . . show me I'm wrong with the data.

.



posted on Mar, 28 2012 @ 12:38 PM
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Originally posted by XxForgottenLegendxX

As for the seeing of Jesus in dreams. Those in Christianity and those who do not know about this following hadith do not really know, or rather, deny this, that Satan can take the form of any individual except the Prophet Muhammad; this includes any of the other prophets (Jesus, Moses, Noah, Adam, etc)


Narrated Anas: The Prophet said, "Whoever has seen me in a dream, then no doubt, he has seen me, for Satan cannot imitate my shape. - 'Interpretation of Dreams' of Sahih Bukhari.


What? Only because Muhammad said so? Muhammad was merely a man, not a divine man conceived by the Holy Spirit like Jesus, so why should anyone believe him? Once again, I'll point out that Muhammad was a mere man who was not given any miraculous abilities by God. So, yes, Satan is perfectly capable of taking on his form.


Furthermore, it is a major sin to lie about a Dream. Taking note of this incase people jump to that conclusion


Prophet Muhammad (S) said, "Indeed the worst of lies is that of a person who falsely claims to have a dream." (Sahih Al-Bukhari) also 'Whoever claims to have dream which he did not have, will be ordered to tie two barley grains together, which he will never be able to do; and if somebody eavesdrop on some people's conversation which they didn't want him to hear or they tried to keep away from him, then molten lead will be poured into his ears on the Day of Resurrection; and whosoever makes a picture (of a being with a soul) will be punished on the Day of Resurrection and (will) be ordered to put a soul in it, which he will not be able to do." (Sahih Al-Bukhari)


Sure Muhammad would say that. If he didn't say that, no one would have believed that HIS dream was real.

Some say that his dreams/visions were only a cover for his constant convulsions, otherwise he would have been thought of as a leper and no one would have taken him seriously.
edit on 28-3-2012 by Deetermined because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 28 2012 @ 12:50 PM
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Thanks OP for posting those testimonies. There's nothing like hearing another's testimony to bring to mind my own joyful day of salvation fourteen years ago.

Oh, and the term "paradigm shift" is so apt and yet so....lacking. I guess two words can hardly convey what happens to you when your saved.

Thanks again, I needed that.


edit on 28-3-2012 by Redux because: added



posted on Mar, 28 2012 @ 01:14 PM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 


What about all the quranic miacles? like science unknown at the time or linguistic miracles, devils and angels are mentioned the same amount of time, quran has palindromes, etc



posted on Mar, 28 2012 @ 01:58 PM
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reply to post by 0thetrooth0
 


The Myth of Scientific Miracles in The Quran: A Logical Analysis

mukto-mona.net...



posted on Mar, 28 2012 @ 04:22 PM
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I'm sticking to what I believe in. I'm not going to start a debate against 50 people when my opinion is clearly not needed here. And for the record, I'm not referring -only- to dreams. I have heard about more Converts to Islam than I have Christianity. And it's one of, if not, the fastest growing religion in the World as of now. What I said is what I'll stick to till' death, and if everyone here wishes to continue worshiping a Human as a God, then fine by me. I can begin a debate about what religion is true here, but it's not my thread and it's not my place. Peace to you.

By the way, to the one who replied back to me saying Muhammad was merely a Man. How would you know this? You do not have one single evidence to prove otherwise that he -wasn't- a messenger of God. The only claim the majority of non-muslims say is, "Oh, this is the work of Satan" "Muhammad is a killer and a rapist!" Just slandering a religion with more than 1 billion people for no apparent reason. Sure, he was a man in the end, but the one you label as divine was a mere man too. I can start to quote your own Bible in the several books it has been distorted to for proof. But again, it's not my place. I'll begin my own thread on this very soon. Peace.
edit on 28-3-2012 by XxForgottenLegendxX because: Grammar



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