A toast, to the end of veganism and vegetarianism , page 1


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Topic started on 25-3-2012 @ 10:51 PM by Ghost147
A toast, to the end of veganism and vegetarianism


Although the title can resemble a subtle distaste for the concept of vegan and vegetarian ideologies, I rather applaud the dedication and efforts in which these two populations put them selves through. The exertion in which is presented quite clearly through their accomplishments of such feats is outstanding to say the very least.

I am writing this letter to all who reside here on ATS to join me in a respectable toast to the end of these specific lifestyles. Before I state why, let's clarify on the more popular reasons as to why someone may make a choice to walk down the animal-less consumption path.



In point form, the usual reasons (but not all) are as follows:

~ Health (with the benefits of fruits, vegetables and other non-animal included products in mind)
~ Anti-Animal Cruelty [Ethical Reasons] (against testing on animals, using animal tested products, and consuming or in any other way using animal based foods and products)
~ To Diminish Ones Ecological Footprint [Environmental Impact] (more on this further down)
~ To Lessen Global Food Shortage


As some of you may already know, for a number of years scientists have been attempting to create lab grown meat. Some of you may also know that they have been very successful with their attempts.



This artificial meat is grown from myoblasts (special muscle cells which repair damage) incubated in a solution derived from the blood products of animal fetuses. Sounds gruesome, but scientists hope to eventually switch to a synthetic medium for culturing the cells. Mark Post, the head investigator for the project at Eindhoven University of Technology, believes that the artificial pork could be ready for use in sausage in as little as five years.

LINK



We’ve had artificial meat in other forms for almost a decade. Scientists at Touro College in New York worked with NASA to develop an artificial fish fillet for astronauts on long space voyages. In that experiment, fish muscles were coaxed to grow in a solution after being sliced off of goldfish. In contrast, the new Dutch work is so promising because the pork grown does not require any animal to be injured during production. If ultimately successful, the Eindhoven technique may lead to a whole range of artificially grown animal products including seafood, chicken, and beef.

LINK

What would this mean for Vegans and Vegetarians however? The implications of the introduction of non-animal, grown meats is impeccably massive.

For Health, we will have the ability to extract unnecessary, and potentially harmful hormones, pesticides and other environmental factors such as mercury and other toxins. Not only that, but we'll have the potential for additives such as additional vitamins and minerals that would render grown meat a must-have on the dinner plate due to its nutritional benefits.

The ethical arguments will quite obviously become void due to there not being any animals to be consumed, hurt or otherwise stressed and mistreated. No need for elaborate campaigns and vast spending of precious funds against commodity.

The environment would receive the biggest and best impact considering that livestock is worse than transportation with it's methane releases. Not to mention the extraordinary amount of land that is required to sustain such a large population of cattle. We also need to take into consideration that the processing plants, shipping, packaging and everything else in between that is required to keep this meat clean, edible, and readily available to the public.

Lastly, with technology being exponential, the development of lab-grown meats will become increasingly easier and cheaper to make as time goes on. This means that very shortly the cost of meat will fall - ever quickening at that - to the point that we will essentially be able to abolish world hunger in this aspect.


My question to the vegans and vegetarians is this. Will you open this new advancement with open arms? And what do you expect will be the result of the vegan and vegetarian lifestyle when the availability of lab-grown meat becomes ever increasing?

As for the meat eaters here, will this new substance be just as appetizing to you as before? and will you be as open to this new concept as well?

I will.
edit on 25/3/12 by Ghost147 because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 26-3-2012 @ 12:03 AM by UnivoxSuperfuzz
reply to post by rickymouse


A cow is a domesticated animal that we created and way over produced. They're bad for the environment and they're unnatural. If artificially grown meat catches on, all the cows should be killed. They wouldn't be missing any "existential freedom" or anything like that. Personifying animals doesn't really make sense.

And I'm pretty sure this artificially grown meat and indoor farming would solve any food crises created by mutated grasshoppers that eat our plants (?).
edit on 26-3-2012 by UnivoxSuperfuzz because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 26-3-2012 @ 12:05 AM by loam
reply to post by Ghost147



I still prefer eating the real thing.

If your idea really catches on, all this technology will do is increase the number of people in the general population who will get on my nerves when they insist I should eat like they do.




edit on 26-3-2012 by loam because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 26-3-2012 @ 12:06 AM by UnivoxSuperfuzz
reply to post by hawkiye



These aren't living things and there's no reason to give them hormones or antibiotics. They're simply grown until they're the right size in a sterile environment. It would actually be safer than any naturally made meat available. Ever. That's a fact.

And as for a response to the OP, I'm a vegetarian I'd totally switch over for fake meat. No reason not to.
edit on 26-3-2012 by UnivoxSuperfuzz because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 26-3-2012 @ 12:23 AM by Pegasus2000
Originally posted by UnivoxSuperfuzz
reply to
post by rickymouse


A cow is a domesticated animal that we created and way over produced. They're bad for the environment and they're unnatural. If artificially grown meat catches on, all the cows should be killed. They wouldn't be missing any "existential freedom" or anything like that. Personifying animals doesn't really make sense.

And I'm pretty sure this artificially grown meat and indoor farming would solve any food crises created by mutated grasshoppers that eat our plants (?).
edit on 26-3-2012 by UnivoxSuperfuzz because: (no reason given)


So your saying i should just shoot my livelihood? What about the Dairy industry? should we shoot all the Dairy cattle if the nation switches from consuming Dairy products to Soy based products?

The world would sure be darker place if the Bovine Species were to be annihilated because they serve no purpose anymore. Also a serious waste of a life. Personally i raise cattle because i enjoy them, no for Profits.

There are many of us who Live for cattle, Show cattle, etc. A world without them would have lost something great. You can't have Horses without cattle and vice versa. Not all cattle in the world are Commercially raised. Many live wonderful natural lives as they would in nature.

Similar things could be said about the human race sadly.

That statement is Downright Absurd and narrowminded.
edit on 26-3-2012 by Pegasus2000 because: Added content




reply posted on 26-3-2012 @ 12:44 AM by hawkiye
Originally posted by UnivoxSuperfuzz
reply to
post by hawkiye



These aren't living things and there's no reason to give them hormones or antibiotics. They're simply grown until they're the right size in a sterile environment. It would actually be safer than any naturally made meat available. Ever. That's a fact.

And as for a response to the OP, I'm a vegetarian I'd totally switch over for fake meat. No reason not to.
edit on 26-3-2012 by UnivoxSuperfuzz because: (no reason given)


Safer and fact my ass yeah right just like GMO's are better for you and anything the FDA approves is safe and healthy... Sigh! It's amazing the level of stupidity displayed by some...


reply posted on 26-3-2012 @ 01:02 AM by Aim64C
reply to post by hawkiye



There is no credible study that demonstrates GMOs to pose a statistically significant risk of causing any problems.

That said - you eat what you want to. Just like you get to buy what electronics you want to. I will go over and look at your organic garden and complement you on the work you've done, just as I'd go and look at your Apple-Pod-Desk and congratulate you for doing something you are happy with.

Start trying to tell me why I'm dumb for not doing the same, and I'll point out every flaw in your 'organic' garden and the health risks you are accepting by using the methods you are; just like I would show you how useless and broken every apple product is once you get past its sleek veneer.

Life is full of choices. No choice you ever take is free of risks or errors.


reply posted on 26-3-2012 @ 04:27 AM by TrueBrit
I will put a line in this dirt, and stand one side of it on this issue. If you are going to eat meat, make sure it has been farmed by a person whose understanding of animal husbandry is generationally imbued, and second to none. Do not make farmers take another hit to thier strapped pockets at this time in history, and ensure thier livelihoods for all time.

If a man cannot make a living doing the most natural of work, feeding people with wholesome produce, then we must all accept that on the day that farming becomes utterly financialy impossible, all of us will be doomed. I was watching a wildlife show last night at a friends house, which featured some old documentary footage filmed in the eighties, about chimps. These happy little critters share ninety percent of our genetic make up, and as a result share familiar physical and dietary habits. A chimp troop, will rip a colobus monkey into pieces, and consume it raw.

My attitude is this. Our digestive system is built to accomodate meat.It has been doing so for more tens of thousands of years, than recorded history can say, and more years than archeology has yet discovered. Displacing ourselves further from our origins has made us as a species weak. We use guns to defend ourselves, rather than the strength of our sword arms, and the power of our shield arms. We use machines to do the work that our forefathers did. We use computers to do our thinking, and even families sitting one room away from one another will now sometimes phone one another to stay in contact, rather than relying on the intimate understanding that used to be shared between those of like blood, a deeper type of interfamilial communion than can even be thought about by the latest generation of materialists.

I see this pathetic turn of events, this fake meat, as no more than another bar on the cage that is being dropped around all wholesome things, all traditional things, and all that makes our species worth a damn. Soon we will not be allowed to eat real meat, because some simpering tit will decide that its not morally correct to do so. These fools will doom us to slavery to the chemists and biologists who have created these fake meats, the monopoly is ready to roll. The people who would like to see this happen are traitors against the entire human race, and are contributing to our downfall.


reply posted on 26-3-2012 @ 04:56 AM by hawkiye
Originally posted by Aim64C
reply to
post by hawkiye



There is no credible study that demonstrates GMOs to pose a statistically significant risk of causing any problems.

That said - you eat what you want to. Just like you get to buy what electronics you want to. I will go over and look at your organic garden and complement you on the work you've done, just as I'd go and look at your Apple-Pod-Desk and congratulate you for doing something you are happy with.

Start trying to tell me why I'm dumb for not doing the same, and I'll point out every flaw in your 'organic' garden and the health risks you are accepting by using the methods you are; just like I would show you how useless and broken every apple product is once you get past its sleek veneer.

Life is full of choices. No choice you ever take is free of risks or errors.


Wow maybe you should try some research first before you embarrass yourself further www.abovetopsecret.com...

Stupid is as stupid does. Oh and please do show us the risks and dangers of organic gardening... Sigh!


reply posted on 26-3-2012 @ 08:19 AM by UnivoxSuperfuzz
reply to post by hawkiye



Wow, thanks for insulting me with literally no basis. I explained myself logically. There would be no reason to genetically modify or add hormones or pesticides to artificially grown, controlled meat. Just because you don't understand biology doesn't make me an idiot.
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