Can Someone Explain to Me Why They Believe 2012 Theories?

Originally posted by Xcalibur254
It just doesn't make sense. We claim to be critical thinkers here and yet many members are throwing their full support behind these 2012 theories with little to no evidence backing them. In my mind all of these claims come from the belief that the Long Count ends this year, but that's not true. In the past I have shown that the Maya placed no significance on this date. I have shown that the Long Count does not end on December 21, 2012, or ever. I have shown that the Five Sun prophecy so often cited is not Mayan in origin, but Aztec. I have shown that the Dresden Codex and the Popol Vuh make not mention of 2012. I have shown that there are no ancient prophecies associated with this date. So can somebody please explain to me why we continue to see a large number of people supporting these 2012 theories? Not only that can somebody explain why we continue to see a number of new 2012 theories all trying to be tied into the Maya in some way? This site is supposed to be about denying ignorance so it just simply confounds me that this remains one of the most popular forums on the site with new theories (not to mention popular) being posted almost every day. This isn't meant to be mocking in anyway, I seriously want to know what keeps people believing with the very core of their being that the world will end/ascend on December 21, 2012.

*Note: I'm not saying nothing will happen in 2012. Things happen every year that have a global impact. What I'm wondering is why do people believe that these events are in some way special or tied to some prophecy.

have a look at the thread in my sig, that's why i believe, empirical evidence i have seen with my own eyes.

reply to post by HonestHerb


This is what I was saying. 2012 "believers" don't support it out of any actual expectations of it happening, but it's not also out of a desire to fearmonger. Instead it's due to a fear of the state of the world and the only way these people can cope is to find a way to alter their perception of reality and their expectations for the future.

From what I'm mainly seeing so far it's what I expected. People either believe in 2012 theories because they are either ignorant of the facts or they don't actually believe in them but they support them because of the change they promise. That leads to a very important question though. If people are spreading these theories simply because they want them to be true doesn't that kind of defeat the goal of ATS? We're here to deny ignorance and to find the truth. How can we do that if a large portion of the site have deluded themselves into thinking something will happen on December 21, 2012 simply because it gives them hope. I'm not saying that it's bad to give people hope, but that is not the point of ATS. We are not here to post fanciful stories to distract use from the way the world really is. We are here to look hard and deep at the true state of the world and draw conclusions from that.

if the world does not end in 2012, im sure someone said it will be 2027 then.

reply to post by LittleBlackEagle


For one those "prophecies" never mention a date. So how can you say that's the reason you believe in 2012 theories. Secondly, from what was posted in that thread the "prophecies" seem extremely vague while including every possible scenario imaginable. They even include amusement park accidents. Then when you throw in the fact that she doesn't even give a specific order in which they'll happen all your really left with is someone saying that something will happen sometime.

Originally posted by Xcalibur254
From what I'm mainly seeing so far it's what I expected. People either believe in 2012 theories because they are either ignorant of the facts or they don't actually believe in them but they support them because of the change they promise. That leads to a very important question though. If people are spreading these theories simply because they want them to be true doesn't that kind of defeat the goal of ATS? We're here to deny ignorance and to find the truth. How can we do that if a large portion of the site have deluded themselves into thinking something will happen on December 21, 2012 simply because it gives them hope. I'm not saying that it's bad to give people hope, but that is not the point of ATS. We are not here to post fanciful stories to distract use from the way the world really is. We are here to look hard and deep at the true state of the world and draw conclusions from that.

did you read the thread in my sig?

i do not however believe the world will end, on the contrary i think it will begin a new but lets face it when a child is born there is much pain to go through first. i think things will fall apart because they have no choice at this point, just look around it's not hard to see but from this i believe we will rebuild things the way they should be. only an end of life as we know it.

Originally posted by Xcalibur254
reply to post by LittleBlackEagle

 

For one those "prophecies" never mention a date. So how can you say that's the reason you believe in 2012 theories. Secondly, from what was posted in that thread the "prophecies" seem extremely vague while including every possible scenario imaginable. They even include amusement park accidents. Then when you throw in the fact that she doesn't even give a specific order in which they'll happen all your really left with is someone saying that something will happen sometime.

there can be no order or dates to true prophecies because of variables in life. if you were alive in 1987 like i was and you read that book like i did, you would have said what i did, which was "i don't see most of that happening" if you would have told me we would be this disgruntled with our government in America i would have laughed at you.

reply to post by Xcalibur254


There is a very good, insightful book on this subject called Earth under Fire by Dr. Paul Laviolette. If you are ever at your local library and find a copy I highly recommend it to maybe help shed some light on doomsday theories.

Originally posted by Xcalibur254
We are here to look hard and deep at the true state of the world and draw conclusions from that.

I would say that it depends on how you define/percieve "truth". Its different for everybody. ATS motto may be "deny ignorance" but there are alot of different people here, therefore alot of different "truths".

I don't believe in this but i can see why people believe it. i mean the lives w elive now is just so messed up..

Wake up > stuck in traffic > 9-5 > Home > TV (maybe some other things if your friends are off as well, but as time go by, everyone is busy with life)> Reason to spend money > Sleep > Repeat.


You feel like you making something in life, but its just a false image, this current modern life is programmed to follow in a certain pattern, if not you just don;t "succeed" as per the current social "norm".

I look at end of the world as alternate reality, a fantasy to escape the currently messed up world, we ourselves know as humans that what we are doing at the moment is not healthy for us, we are forcing ourselves to do things we don't like... so what the escape... an all inclusive wipe out and start over, a change really because this programmed world ain't cutting it for our curious nature.

Sadly the year would continue on and on and on until we die of old age or some new disease will get us.

Well, life is what you make of it and you only get one. It doesn't matter whether the theories surrounding 2012 are right or not because you're going to die one day. Nothing is going to get you out of the trap you feel you are in except YOU. Life has a 100% death rate and it's incurable.

Maybe some hang on to the thought of an end date such as 2012 because of this trapped feeling. Maybe some just like to live in fear of doom and gloom. I don't know. At my point in my life, I don't care one way or the other--if it happens, there's not much that I can do about it. If it doesn't, well, then nothing changes, does it? All I can do is live my life the way I want to, the way that makes me feel happy and comfortable living from one day to the next. I could not imagine living in a life that I hated. Well--I take that back. I did live in a life that I hated and I changed it. Now I'm happy. No 2012 doom and gloom or enlightenment is going to fix the life you created for yourself, except maybe kill you sooner than later. Because we're all going to die some day. It should be that day that we're all living today for.

reply to post by LittleBlackEagle


If you look at everything she predicted pretty much all of it has precedence throughout history. In fact I noticed a lot of things on the list that occurred in the 70s. So if it has precedence it stands without saying that it could happen again. So then the author isn't really being insightful or prophetic, she's simply just saying that this happened once in the past it'll probably happen again some time.

I could possibly see some stuff happening on December 21st, 2012, and here's why...

I have some friends that are pretty much going to go "all out" as it were on 12/21/2012 and when I extrapolate that to all of America... THEN, we have all the crazies on this site that actually DO believe something is going to happen, and actually treat it like the end of the world.

With the combination of people off their face on the drugs of their choice and crazies with guns, booze, and, I assume, weird trap doors built into their porch to hunt for human flesh, social upheaval wouldn't be too far off from what COULD happen.

But I'm really just indulging my imagination. Wish fulfillment everyday.

can anyone explain if they are aware that the mayans thought men were once literally made of mud, wood and amber ?

does that change your opinion of the calendar at all ?

reply to post by Cancerwarrior


I've looked a little into LaViolette's work and it doesn't really seem all that kosher. For one he employs such common fraud tactics as dismissing the laws of thermodynamics for no reason. Then there's also the fact that he uses known false claims to support his theory. For example the flash freezing of mammoths. We know no flash freezing occurred. What happened is the mammoths became trapped in mud, preserving them, which then froze. Then there's also the fact that he supports known frauds. An example of this occurs in another book of his where he has an entire chapter devoted to John Searl, a man who claimed to have an overunity device but was quickly exposed as a liar. He even evokes the outdated concept of Aether to support his theories. All of these are tactics used b con men trying to market their books to the New Age crowd.

reply to post by syrinx high priest


Chemically we're probably not too far off... Mostly mud, though.

reply to post by Cancerwarrior


However, we do have things that we can show to be completely true or false. We know it's true that all 2012 theories have their origin with the Long Count. We know it's true that the Long Count makes no specific claims about 2012 or even ends on 2012. We also know it's true that many of the "prophecies" associated with 2012 don't actually exist. So if the most basic premises for the conclusions being made are false then the conclusions are false.

There's a difference between something being true and believing something to be true. Furthermore, it seems like many who have responded to this thread don't even believe these theories to be true. They simply wish for them to be true, but deep down they know that it is not the truth. So if the people posting 2012 theories don't even believe in the validity of their own claims why is the 2012 nonsense allowed to continue when its propagation seems antithetical to ATS's main purpose?

reply to post by luciddream


Exactly. 2012 theories pretty much replace TV in your flowchart. It is a form of escapism. However, while one may watch TV and wish the world were actually like what they saw, 2012 supporters wish that's how the world was and then try to convince themselves that's how the world actually is.

reply to post by Xcalibur254

Because most of these people are nothing more than brainwashed sheep that cannot think for themselves.

Personally from my standpoint.. It's not really believing something will happen but more along the lines of begging for something to happen. I really don't want to live my entire life in this kind of system personally.. I would do anything just for things just to change.. Idc if I even have to go to war or something because of a draft, because I know things will have to fall apart if were going to rebuild this thing right..

So basically looking into theories of how it could end is kinda like a string of hope. But ATS has crushed that hope because of all of the whackos with prediction dates and stuff -.-