James Cameron Now at Ocean's Deepest Point

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by freethinker123

 

So you're saying that in order to sit inside / operate a machine you must have built / paid for it? Thats a pretty weak argument.

No.
It's more like, if I had built/paid for the machine, I sure as hell would want to be the first one to use it. But maybe that's just my adventurous side coming out. I sure as hell wouldn't have picked up a homeless guy and said, "hey, want to take this baby for a spin?"

edit on 3/27/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)

Star for you Phage

That's the spirit I Like to hear on ATS.

Discussing Homeless People as Bums and a Submarine Mission.

Pure Style

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by freethinker123

 

OK, why not send a homeless bum down there?

Because a homeless bum couldn't build the machine.

Maybe people lost my attention to detail with Phage's comment and the current climate of Engineers out of work due to Job Jacking Overseas.

I've seen many a job go overseas and leave Very Qualified People Based In the Engineering World in a really dire situation... And a Gold Member gets away on a site of this nature with that comment ATS ?

Heres some of Those Homeless Bums Phage mentions:

55 yr old man, homeless. Has degree in electrical engineer and physics!

SOURCE:

www.physicsforums.com...

Originally posted by Phage
Because a homeless bum couldn't build the machine.

Seriously?

55 yr old man, homeless. Has degree in electrical engineer and physics!

Unfortunately, he his chances of finding a job are much slimmer than you think. He is five times damned. He

1. Is 55.
Age discrimination laws that are supposed to protect older employees backfire when one is looking for a job. One goal of those laws was to make it harder to fire or lay off older employers. An unintended consequence is that employers do not relish hiring such a person. What if they need to downsize? Although employers are not supposed to discriminate in hiring when it comes to age, they do. While unemployment in people 55 and up is less than it is for society as a whole, once unemployed, finding a new job takes a lot longer for someone 55 and up.

2. Is of a minority.
A similar set problems apply here as for age. Plus there is the added problem that discrimination based on skin color still does exist in this country.

3. Is highly educated.
Employers are leery of hiring someone deemed to be overqualified. Employers perceive that overqualified employees will be on the hunt for a better job from day one and thus won't contribute, and that they eventually will find that better job and won't recoup the initial negative value that pertains to almost every new hire.

4. Has worked on his own.
Another red flag when it comes to hiring someone. Employers perceive that people who have run their own companies are looking for a job just to tide them over until the economy improves.

5. Has been unemployed for over a year (per his linked in page).
Yet one more red flag. Employers perceive that people who have gaps in their employment records must have something wrong with them.

www.physicsforums.com...

People who are homeless deserve respect - San Antonio Express

"There but for blessed fortune go you or I."

www.mysanantonio.com...

And you got three stars for THAT bigotted comment?

Well at least your job as professional debunker is secure

reply to post by zorgon

You've really been having a problem following threads lately, haven't you? Why do you just ignore the post that I was replying to?

Why use an expert? OK, why not send a homeless bum down there? Or make it an unmanned 'mission'. No, you know why, its about the hype of James Cameron doing it.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

You don't care about context? Or are you saying that a homeless person has the resources to build the submersible?

Three whole stars. My goodness!
What's with your hang up about stars?

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by freethinker123

 

So you're saying that in order to sit inside / operate a machine you must have built / paid for it? Thats a pretty weak argument.

No.
It's more like, if I had built/paid for the machine, I sure as hell would want to be the first one to use it. But maybe that's just my adventurous side coming out. I sure as hell wouldn't have picked up a homeless guy and said, "hey, want to take this baby for a spin?"

edit on 3/27/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)

Well I think most people would feel the same way. But my point is that if either of us did that few people would take any notice. Thats because there is little of scientific value to be gained by our 'deep sea tourism'.

You do recognise that Cameron is doing this for profit as well as for his 'spirit of adventure' don't you?

At the very least the timing was interesting, coming as it did during the release of Titanic 3D. And I bet like lemmings they will rush to watch the 4 hour movie again.

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by Phage
Because a homeless bum couldn't build the machine.

Seriously?

55 yr old man, homeless. Has degree in electrical engineer and physics!

Unfortunately, he his chances of finding a job are much slimmer than you think. He is five times damned. He

1. Is 55.
Age discrimination laws that are supposed to protect older employees backfire when one is looking for a job. One goal of those laws was to make it harder to fire or lay off older employers. An unintended consequence is that employers do not relish hiring such a person. What if they need to downsize? Although employers are not supposed to discriminate in hiring when it comes to age, they do. While unemployment in people 55 and up is less than it is for society as a whole, once unemployed, finding a new job takes a lot longer for someone 55 and up.

2. Is of a minority.
A similar set problems apply here as for age. Plus there is the added problem that discrimination based on skin color still does exist in this country.

3. Is highly educated.
Employers are leery of hiring someone deemed to be overqualified. Employers perceive that overqualified employees will be on the hunt for a better job from day one and thus won't contribute, and that they eventually will find that better job and won't recoup the initial negative value that pertains to almost every new hire.

4. Has worked on his own.
Another red flag when it comes to hiring someone. Employers perceive that people who have run their own companies are looking for a job just to tide them over until the economy improves.

5. Has been unemployed for over a year (per his linked in page).
Yet one more red flag. Employers perceive that people who have gaps in their employment records must have something wrong with them.

www.physicsforums.com...

People who are homeless deserve respect - San Antonio Express

"There but for blessed fortune go you or I."

www.mysanantonio.com...

And you got three stars for THAT bigotted comment?

Well at least your job as professional debunker is secure

I have to say in Phage's defence that it was my imaginary homeless bum that he was borrowing. The point I was trying to make btw wasn't in any way that the guy was useless in any way. What I was suggesting is that anybody could have gone down in that capsule and that nobody would notice if it hadn't been such a good PR merchant as Cameron.

reply to post by freethinker123

You do recognise that Cameron is doing this for profit as well as for his 'spirit of adventure' don't you?

Is there something wrong with that? Why do you think Magellan started his voyage? Was Cook motivated only by adventure?

For the record, I think Titanic was a dismal chick flick and releasing a 3D version won't make it any better. Avatar was cute but not that great a movie.

Cameron's dive(s) will not encourage me to see his movies, however the machine he built will be used to further undersea exploration. I fail to see how engaging the public in such endeavors, by whatever means, can be construed as not worthwhile.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by freethinker123

 

You do recognise that Cameron is doing this for profit as well as for his 'spirit of adventure' don't you?

Is there something wrong with that? Why do you think Magellan started his voyage? Was Cook motivated only by adventure?

For the record, I think Titanic was a dismal chick flick and releasing a 3D version won't make it any better. Avatar was cute but not that great a movie.

Cameron's dive(s) will not encourage me to see his movies, however the machine he built will be used to further undersea exploration. I fail to see how engaging the public in such endeavors, by whatever means, can be construed as not worthwhile.

Well I'm glad to see we agree on those movies. Titanic, his worst movie, is already the most watched film of all time, doesn't say much for mankinds ability to fall for hype, ahead of quality. Of course lots of girls saw the film a number of times, but many others did also and came away thinking they had seen a good movie on the basis of the way the film was marketed. (Sound familiar?)

No, I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with profit or promotion, no matter how egotistical the individual involved. What worries me is the distinct lack of realisation by those who contributed in this thread. Many seem to believe he's doing it out of the goodness of his heart. You yourself until now had not mentioned the self interest, nor criticised the naivity in others thinking the man is an alturist, will make amazing discoveries, or would mention his name alongside Cook and Magellan - oh dear, that was you! I can't do the 'I knew Cook and Magellan' part of the line, but I can say that Cameron certainly aint no Cook or Magellan. He's not even a 'king of the world' (ugh!) in his own field. I'd say this more closely resembled some Russian businessman that paid for a place in a space capsule, bringing the latest technology camera with him. OK, for the sake of consistency this fictional Ruskie built the craft too.

I will admit that I didn't know that his machine will be used again (by experts, I hope, not rich businessmen) for undersea exploration. However, you must agree with me that his trip down to the beyond proved to produce no scientific value. A lot of fuss about nothing.

Engaging the public? Well my opinion on this is probably quite similar to my opinion of the remake of Romeo and Juliet, I couldn't care less if people who have never read /watched the original later claimed to be interested in Romeo and Juliet after watching the remake. And I bet that after claiming interest they never picked up shakespeare in their lives. I suspect that the 'interest' that this will generate will produce a similar result. Real interest, aside from the hype and candyfloss, is not so easy to stimulate.