American Ignorance

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
reply to post by DarthMuerte

 

How's it feel to be the only political troll in an otherwise thought-provoking thread?

he isnt trolling , he was giving his honest opinion.

we need everyone, especially darthmuerte in this conversation.

Originally posted by DarthMuerte

Originally posted by elitegamer23
reply to post by DarthMuerte

 

ive been working the last 19 years of my life, since i was 16. im one of the most liberal people you will ever run across.

a liberal isnt a person on wellfare. a conservative isnt a person with a job.

Do you believe you have a right to "free" health care? Do you believe you have a right to have others support you when you choose to retire? Do you believe that others should bail you out if you forgot to buy insurance and disaster strikes? Do you believe that the federal government knows what is best in every other part of the country when it comes to educating our children? Do you believe it is ok to put a gun in your neighbor's face when you need money? If not, then how about hiring someone else to put the gun in your neighbor's face? Is that ok? Is it ok to steal from others just because they have more than you do? Is it ok to hire someone else to steal for you?

edit on 25-3-2012 by DarthMuerte because: (no reason given)

i actually pay for my healthcare, so no it sure isnt free . im a liberal who pays for my own healthcare. weird huh?

do i think everyone in the usa should have healthcare to help lower cost so i dont have to pay so much?

yes i do, i think 5% of people account for 50% of the cost of healthcare. these are republicans and democrats who make up the 5%.

if people had healthcare and didnt need to go to the emergency room for their care we all wouldnt pay so much.

Originally posted by elitegamer23

liberal and conservative.

what i have noticed is a majority of people dont even have a clue what the meaning of these labels are.

I agree.

Politics and the media has become little more than a positive feedback loop, and it takes hardly any energy to get into it. The party "you" believe in tells you exactly what you want to hear. Then it becomes "I'm right and everyone else is wrong". Discussions turn to arguments which devolve into little more than self-justification and childish name calling. You start to think you know what's right and wrong for me. Then I start thinking I know what's right and wrong for you. Under a system of seemingly opposing values and party loyalty, the political pendulum swings back and forth, but the fundamental direction in which we move never varies by more than a degree or two. In this manner, people are polarized into opposing groups that offset each other and the status quo is maintained.

Unfortunately there is that undeniable element of human nature that relishes in having control over another or others. Our forefathers understood this almost perfectly. But most modern Americans have been duped into genuinely preferring government control of their own and their neighbors' lives. The rights of the individual must be sacrificed to the state.

This is why (if you haven't already noticed) almost all Americans, conservative and democrat, are very simply authoritarians. It makes little difference if they are a red or a blue one. They may disagree among themselves about the details, but authoritarians of one sort or another constitute an overwhelming majority on both "sides". They possess the conceit inherent in the desire to plan the lives of others; and second, endorse an institution of force necessary to impose these plans on unwilling subjects. They value physical coercion, compulsion and control. The central power they create is just an expedient to force their worldview upon others. Those who act consistently within this worldview are authoritarians, whether they realize it or not. Power over others is a hell of a drug.

There are still a few Americans that advocate maximizing individual rights and minimizing the role of the state. They understand that the abstraction called "society" is really just a collection of individuals. But they are simply revolutionaries and rebels. Just remember that in "the land of the free" the majority has spoken. We have power over you. This is not about asking, It is about telling. Don't be brave. Embrace it.

The legacy of Democrats and Republicans approaches...Despotism in exchange for hay and a barn for us human cattle.pp

Conservative- Someone who believes in hard work and individual responsibility. Someone who has set a high moral bar for society and will openly defend the right to life. Someone with a pair of nuts that does not blame others for his/her own shortcomings

Liberal- Hippie crybabys and white guilt suckups with no knowledge of economics

reply to post by elitegamer23


Yes, and it's quite easy to measure a person's general knowledge about economics in terms of tidy little labels like liberal and conservative. I, personally, never use them, as they're imprecise and sloppy thinking.

I also don't fall into the trap of classifying people according to their social convictions, but rather according to their economic convictions, and of these, there are only two: central planning or free-market. Every political conviction, inclination, or party platform, can be measured between these two points.

Everything else is political sophistry.

Originally posted by elitegamer23
in america, especially during election years two words are thrown around like crazy.

liberal and conservative.

I can juggle....

Liberals and Conservatives = Vacant brainless evil doers

By what I can gather from this thread:
Conservatives - Love to insult liberals and call them scum sucking, soulless, anti-social parasites.
Liberals - Talk about what they actually think...

Seems like one side's buying into the propaganda more than the other

I'm a liberal, and by that I mean I believe in complete freedom in social issues. Economically, I like fiscal conservatism and socially uplifting programs, like free education, healthcare, etc. Taxing the wealthy is the only way to do this, logically. Macroeconomics shows this balances out the concentration of money to the corporation-owning/operating class.

Originally posted by UnivoxSuperfuzz

I'm a liberal, and by that I mean I believe in complete freedom in social issues. Economically, I like fiscal conservatism and socially uplifting programs, like free education, healthcare, etc. Taxing the wealthy is the only way to do this, logically. Macroeconomics shows this balances out the concentration of money to the corporation-owning/operating class.

i think a vast majority of americans would consider themselves social liberals / fiscal conservatives , if they actually understood what the meaning of the labels were.

sadly the labels are used to divide our country. black / white, men / women, rich/ poor, religious/ non religious, christian/ muslim, republican/democrat, liberal/ conservative.

united we stand, divided we fall. we are meant to fall!

Originally posted by DarthMuerte

Originally posted by elitegamer23
reply to post by DarthMuerte

 

ive been working the last 19 years of my life, since i was 16. im one of the most liberal people you will ever run across.

a liberal isnt a person on wellfare. a conservative isnt a person with a job.

Do you believe you have a right to "free" health care? Do you believe you have a right to have others support you when you choose to retire? Do you believe that others should bail you out if you forgot to buy insurance and disaster strikes? Do you believe that the federal government knows what is best in every other part of the country when it comes to educating our children? Do you believe it is ok to put a gun in your neighbor's face when you need money? If not, then how about hiring someone else to put the gun in your neighbor's face? Is that ok? Is it ok to steal from others just because they have more than you do? Is it ok to hire someone else to steal for you?

edit on 25-3-2012 by DarthMuerte because: (no reason given)

Everyone should have healthcare. The government should be forcing anyone to BUY a policy. This should all be a public mandate forbasic healthcare but a person can buy additional policies at their expense... kind of like medicare .. no script coverage by government tax as is now with Part D....

I also believe in gun ownership for all.......
gay marriage .....
abortion up to individual
legalize soft drugs like pot
eliminate the FED
close the Mexican border and repatriot all illegals
get back to "mark to market" accounting
GAAP basics not funky accounting
break up and eliminate the "too big to fail"
living wage
kill MERS
eliminate Freddie and Fanny

drill baby drill ... but nationalize the oil for "only US consumption"

The healthcare issue puts the US at a disadvantage in business worldwide.....

reply to post by DarthMuerte


Funny, most conservatives I see take full advantage of handouts and then want to deny them to everyone else.

reply to post by elitegamer23


In another post I indicated my political basics but my family is another matter ....

My mother and sister are both Tea Party drinkers and Republicans. I have a hard time communicating with them since they have become Southern Baptists. I have seen their minds and ideology shrink and become like a walled fortress of denial. They are more likely to be motivated by anger.

My other sister is a school teacher who leans Democratic.... I love but I find her somewhat "dingy" and basis her decisions on caring emotion.

Me, I think both sides are lying through their teeth and benefit the same power structure behind the scenes.

the worst part is both sides are a lot more alike than they would like to admit, it's all a charade

Originally posted by UnivoxSuperfuzz
Macroeconomics shows this balances out the concentration of money to the corporation-owning/operating class.

Macroeconomics also lacks knowledge of particulars, so all models developed by it are either incomplete or inconsistent, reducing it to another synonym for central planning, which is the status quo of both major parties-- central planning only becomes an issue to parties when the opposition is elected and accumulates the most political power (i.e. seats and appointments).

Another consequence of macroeconomical modeling is the class system you're speaking of, it develops two in particular, the state and the non-state. The former benefits and retains power from central planning while the latter is plundered and loses equality of power through the abolition of individual decentralized planning.

The reason macroeconomics and central planning do not produce the predicted results is because it deals with fictitious entities, or mathematical objects that aren't inherently mathematical to begin with, unless every single individual, down to the most minutiae synpatic firing can be qualitatively mapped.

Just to add to the generalizations, how about this one...

Liberals tend to care mostly about people while conservatives care mostly about money.

Or here's another...

Liberals want peace and equality.
Conservatives justify inequality and war.

Or think of it like the Yoda teachings..

Liberals... Light Side. (Peace, Equality, Empathy, Compassion, Conscience)
Conservatives... Dark Side. (Fear, Anger, Aggression, Hate)

Now that I'm adult I see things politically for what they are. Conservative or Liberal...they are just words that mean very little in substance or reality. Be republican or democrat they are not looking out for me or you...they are in it for themselves. Who cares about them; they don't care about us. They're about their own agendas which doesn't include you or me. Republicans want to keep all the money in the hands of the few, while democrats give it all away. And it just gets more disgusting during election years. Makes me want to throw up. As Americans we've lost the ability to regulate our politicians and because of that our domestic and foreign policies are a disturbing mix of insanity and profanity. Vote all you want...see if it changes.

I agree with the op in that most do not really know within the context of politics, however I will raise you one, most do not really care. These terms are more so to create a perceived line between parties when in reality most Americans simply care about actual issues that bound us all. I find that labeling ones self any specific party tag line only distorts and even blinds many in politics to the greater good. So, although I agree with the op in his statement, it's actually a testimate towards the American population that they need not care about tag lines and rather focus on actual issues that mater to us all.

reply to post by elitegamer23


most the people on welfare are liberal.

Originally posted by DarthMuerte
I don't have an actual "definition" of "liberal". I have noticed that most "liberals", generally of democratic party affiliation if they have a party affiliation, believe that society owes them everything needed to live with no effort put forth on their part.

As one who self-identifies as a Liberal, I'm more inclined to say that we're not as likely to throw our less fortunate fellows under the bus...and willing to put our money where our mouths are.

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by DarthMuerte
I don't have an actual "definition" of "liberal". I have noticed that most "liberals", generally of democratic party affiliation if they have a party affiliation, believe that society owes them everything needed to live with no effort put forth on their part.

As one who self-identifies as a Liberal, I'm more inclined to say that we're not as likely to throw our less fortunate fellows under the bus...and willing to put our money where our mouths are.

i love calling myself a liberal! why wouldnt you believe in equal rights for all. yeah some close minded people will say the liberals dont work, dont pay taxes, blah blah blah.
i gladly work, pay my taxes, and pay for my own health insurance.

i would guess u could call yourself a fiscal conservative , which i think the gop like to mostly pin their term of 'conservative ' on.

Originally posted by werk71
reply to post by elitegamer23

 

most the people on welfare are liberal.

i would bet you have spent more time on wellfare , or taken more handouts than my liberal ass ever has.

thanks for proving the point of my thread .