US paid close to $50,000 per shooting spree death

reply to post by Jameela


Ok but there is a huge difference between how the 2 judicial systems work and rightfully so. If they successfully argument mitigation based on mental defect then I see reduced charges from murder to manslaughter with a life sentence. If the mental defect mitigation is not successful, then I see full charges of murder with a death penality possibility.

reply to post by Xcathdra


I see the defense being able to prove the mitigating factors of mental instability, plus they have the option of giving him a short amount of time.

To me, the biggest concern they have is simply making the sentence sound harsh in the media, since this is nothing more than a media game.

What makes you think on manslaughter they will actually go so far as to give him life?

reply to post by Jameela


Under US law (respectfully I am on the assumption you are not from the US. If you are then my apologies), as well as the UCMJ, a charge is a single item with a single punishment (or single punishment guidelines). In order to use the defense by mental defect (which is the technical / legal term used for those who are not familiar so you dont think i'm calling the Sgt. names) medical professionals will have to do there thing in order to certify for a fact there are some mental issues present that can be used in mitigation (affirmative defense).

Essentially the argument being made by the defense is yes the incident occurred, however the reason it occurred is based on circumstance - IE an issue that prevents the accused from understanding that their actions were in the wrong.

What that means is - example (prison time is made up by me for this example).
Charge - Manslaughter
Penalty if found guilty - 25 years in prison with no possibility of parole.
The Sgt. is charged with 17 counts of manslaughter.

The Sgt., for this hypothetical, is charged with 17 counts of manslaughter. At the end of the trial he is found guilty on all 17 counts. During the sentencing phase the judge has 2 options -

* - Option 1
The Sgt can be sentenced on all 17 counts where the penalty time runs concurrent. That option will put the Sgt. in prison for 25 years on all 17 counts.

* - Option 2
The Sgt. can be sentenced on all 17 counts where the penalty times run consecutively. That means the Sgt. would serve 25 years in prison. Once the 25 years is done, he would start the next sentence on charge #2 for 25 years. At the end of that he would start his next sentence on charge #3 for 25 years, etc etc etc.

For option 1 total prison time for all 17 convictions would be 25 years and thats it.
For option 2 total prison time for all 17 convictions would be 425 years (life in Prison).

There are a few other options, allowing some charges to run concurrently and the remainder to run consecutively etc etc etc. A person who is determined to qualify for mental defect can still be charged, found guilty and sent to a Prison / Federal Medical Penitentiary. Its still a correctional facility that specializes in psychiatric issues.

If at any point the Doctors (Psyche not medical) determine he is competent he can be transferred to a normal prison facility.

Hope this helps... Its why a person can effectively be sentenced to life in prison even on the lesser charges. A lesser charge doesn't always mean an easier time. Usually when a lesser crime is used its because of mitigating circumstances (evidence doesn't support the higher charge, mental / emotional issues / etc etc etc). Usually when that occurs the Prosecution can support a defense motion in terms of psychiatric institution etc etc etc.

Originally posted by Xcathdra

I thank you for your attempt to enlighten me however, you did not answer my question.

I know it is possible for the soldier to be sentenced to 20 to 25 years on manslaughter, it is also just as possible to be sentenced to 1 year (per charge but the charges can run concurrent as we both have now previously stated)

Sentencing is up to the discretion of the judge.

This type of action by soldiers was frequently seen in Vietnam, and the soldiers were not tried. At the time it was viewed as a consequence of war. Now there is heavy media attention and soldiers are being tried, but only due to media involvement and public criticism.

The actions are not condemnable actions insofar as the military thinks the actions themselves are wrong, but only insofar as the public criticizes the action and refuses to support military presence. In other words, he is being tried not because he did a wrong, but because he damaged public opinion, and the trial is damage control.

In my opinion, his sentence will run based on how much damage the military and government believes was done and since there is no rioting currently, they will believe they have a handle on the public opinion in Afghanistan, therefore will be more likely to sentence according to public opinion in America which is largely sympathetic toward the soldier.

This is why I believe life will not be given, but a lighter sentence of 2 to 5 years running concurrent, with a portion of that sentence in a mental hospital.

What I asked was why do you believe the judge would feel compelled to go with a life sentence?



Hypothetically speaking of course, as this is only discussion based on our personal opinions in which we are making the attempt to predict a future event using rational thought.

Originally posted by Xcathdra
If the family accepts compensation, then its really none of our business to question that is it?

Ya dude, bc we all know Afghanis have a voice and a choice. Depressing day everyday or what?

Good thing we didn't illegally download music from them, that would've been a lot more expensive.

reply to post by Jameela


A few things to note -
The military nor the President can go into detail about their thoughts of the Sgt. and his actions. Its called undue command influence and violation can jeopardize court proceedings.

Im not sure how to explain this.

MCM - MANUAL FOR COURTS-MARTIAL - 2008

Peruse the above. It covers all aspects of court martials, including how sentencing works.

Originally posted by conspiracy88

Originally posted by Xcathdra
If the family accepts compensation, then its really none of our business to question that is it?

Ya dude, bc we all know Afghanis have a voice and a choice.

Depressing day everyday or what?

They had a choice to accept or reject the monetary compensation did they not?

So an Afghan life is worth 50 grand? We put American lives at about 400 grand over here. I wonder who does the computing of how much say a wound from a crazy American soldier is worth?

Originally posted by earthdude
So an Afghan life is worth 50 grand? We put American lives at about 400 grand over here. I wonder who does the computing of how much say a wound from a crazy American soldier is worth?

Or maybe the US made an offer and the Afghans said yes?

How about you ask that question to the Afghans who took the compensation instead of speculating? No where in any article do I see the dolllar amount connected to how much a life is worth. So if you could also link your source where it discusses that I would appreciate it,.

Originally posted by Xcathdra
Or maybe the US made an offer and the Afghans said yes?

I have to be in agreement with you, unless or until the Afghani families personally contradict this, which so far has not happened, and I kept skepticism on the matter giving the families time to speak, but to my knowledge they have not done so even at this late date.

If the Afghan families were offered the money and accepted it, then Islam was followed in this matter and for us it is done, because it is the families who are the bereaved and this is their choice, not ours.

While I disagree that an Afghan life is worth less than an American life, or other such considerations which are discussable, if the families has accepted the money in lieu of retaliation for the lives, then this part of the discussion is off the table.

reply to post by Jameela


The payout amounts, to my knowledge and ive looked for the information and have not located any, had anything to do with how much a persons life is. That came from people in the thread who have issues accepting any action by people who are opposed to the US to all of a sudden agree with the US.

My argument has been blood money, and I think this is exactly what is going on. My comment on the best of both worlds was to highlight the fact that while a horrible crime occured, the US will not only hold the Sgt. accountible under the UCMJ, but also would work with the affected parties using their customs.

If blood money is paid, then the individual who committed the crime can go free. In this case, the blood money was paid and the soldier will get his day in court.

The world is not a perfect place, and neither is the US, its government, its armed forces or her citizens. The view I get from people on this forum almost mimics exactly the ancient alien theories. Where the view is aliens came to earth and because the alien technology was nothing the world had ever seen, the aliens were viewd as Gods who could do no wrong.

People argue about the US being the worlds last super power, having technology in all areas that is highly advanced, smart bombs, intelligent drones etc etc etc. Just because we achieved all of that does not mean we are "Gods" who cannot make a mistake.

"To Err is human; to forgive is divine"

reply to post by Xcathdra


I know it is blood money, there is no question of that

the reason I personally saying that life is worth, in relation to blood money, is because when Americans ask for blood money, which they did, they wanted 10 million per life, because it was Americans who died.

Why don't we leave out of this thread American 'mistakes' that is a whole different argument. This world is on the brink of WW3 because of these 'mistakes.' As someone else once said, do not underestimate them, they know exactly what they are doing.

We are faced with a choice daily, to stand with truth and right, or to stand with lies and falsehood. There are times to forgive, and there are times to make that choice. It is why I write.

I do like you, you are an intelligent man. But that such intelligence is spent defending lies and falsehood seems a waste of intelligence.

If you worry that people blame the ordinary American we do not, but the American people were apathetic to the doings of their government. That is fact, and there is a share of culpability here overall. Nothing can stand without support.

If you want to see the face of evil, look at what feeds itself and grows more powerful upon all things evil.

Materialism; check
Hatred; check
Racism; check
Murder; check
Lies; check
Envy; check
Theft; check
Division; check