BODY SNATCHERS: The illegal organ harvest trade...Its BIGGER than you think.

reply to post by AGWskeptic

Originally posted by AGWskeptic
I did not watch the videos, but I will in fairness.

Well, that is the reason you have the impression you do.

Fair enough.

Later come back and tell me what you think.

Originally posted by AGWskeptic
I researched this topic 2 years ago when it came up and found that while there are isolated cases it is not widespread and reports of abduction harvests were unsubstantiated.

It's one of those issues the media likes to overhype and fabricate.

Actually, I found very little hype about it.

In nearly every country where I found examples, there was almost no widespread coverage- despite credible evidence indicating a substantial problem.

Originally posted by AGWskeptic
As I said before, the amount of testing you have to go through is extensive, the odds of some Joe off the street being a match are mighty slim, and by the time you get the test results and match it with a donor, it's a dead organ.

Oh, I understand this.

But I'm confused why you think this is relevant? If the victims are thought of as chattel and an expendable resource, you can afford a great deal of waste. If something doesn't work out, get another one. The sources are cheap enough and plentiful.

Who cares about refugees who already die by the millions? Or the poor and destitute?

Originally posted by AGWskeptic
I'll watch the videos to see if there is anything new, but being approached online by a willing seller is a far cry from back alley abductions of children.

In my original post, I quoted Havocscope, LLC who is in the business of analyzing black markets, and they estimated the illegal organ trade to be $38.09 Billion a year. And that's just what they can substantiate through other documents and public sources. The market could be much larger.

But even if they are wrong by half, it's still a massive market, considering its nature.

In one of the video sources, CNN said the illegal organ harvesting trade is second only behind the illegal arms trade, and trumps the sex and the drug trafficking markets in the Sinai.

Where do you think all of those organs are going?

People of means are buying them, because they so easily can.

Even you were approached.

Now think about that. The illegal arms trade is pretty large, and I doubt you'd deny its size or existence. Has anyone ever approached you to buy a missile?

Well, soon we're going to be able to make synthetic organs so this shouldnt be a problem for too much longer. id assume any rich guy that wants to buy an organ would prefer to have a synthetic one that works perfectly over a human one

reply to post by loam


S&F, thank you, Loam, for your excellent research on this grisly, but important topic. It's just sickening.

Powerful people aren't doing enough about it because the victims are usually members of the powerless poor -- people the ruling classes do not care about. They probably classify the victims as "useless eaters" that need to be eliminated anyway.

It's heartbreaking to see people so desperate for money they're willing to sell an organ -- and then they're cheated out of the money they were promised, and sometimes their lives -- from sloppy surgery performed by unqualified "surgeons" in inadequate operating theatres.

Not to mention, the unknown numbers who are outright murdered for their body parts. A really horrifying topic.

Makes me wonder where Cheney got his heart.

reply to post by loam


Think about those numbers, 38 billion dollars a year. Do you have any idea how many transplants that would be. It would mean there are more being done on the black market than in the open.

That's an awful lot of rich sick people.

Urban legends are not just contained to America.

reply to post by hotbread

Originally posted by hotbread
I think it is a standard procedure for funeral homes to remove organs before burial, where do the organs go?

They can't be used for donation as harvesting must happen almost immediately after death. If your body makes it to the funeral home, every thing left is pretty much useless-- except bone tissue as I understand it.

Here is a quick description of the process:

If someone has indicated that he or she wishes to donate organs after death, a transplant team can immediately move in and initiate the organ harvesting process after consent forms are signed by someone with the power of attorney for the patient. In other instances, someone's wishes may be unclear, and hospital staff may discuss options with a family. In all cases, a transplant coordinator discusses the possibility of organ donation before a harvest is begun, and the wishes of surviving family members are always respected; organ harvesting will never take place without consent.

Once a medical team has received approval, the organ donor is wheeled into an operating room and cut open so that his or her organs and tissues can be removed. Typically, the donor has been blood typed and screened first, and a transplant coordination agency, such as the United Network for Organ Sharing in the United States, has assigned organs to people in need. Medical staff work quickly to keep organs usable, but they are also respectful, and they ensure that the patient is sewn up when the procedure is finished so that the family can visit the body as part of their grieving process, if desired.

After organ harvesting, the organs and tissues are rushed to their new destinations, and transplanted into patients in need. Some tissues have a shelf life, and they may be stored in medical facilities until they are needed. In the event that any donated organ or tissue is not usable, it is respectfully disposed of.

Link.

reply to post by AGWskeptic

Originally posted by AGWskeptic
It would mean there are more being done on the black market than in the open.

Why does that surprise you?

This is simple economics.

When something is that scarce, and made further scarce by regulation, black markets always arise to fulfill the demand.

Originally posted by AGWskeptic
Do you have any idea how many transplants that would be.

...

That's an awful lot of rich sick people.

Well, it's clear on a global scale, no one really knows the true number in terms of demand. In fact, the same is true for the 'legal' route.

See for example:

MedScape

Question

I'm trying to find a source for data describing the worldwide statistics of organ transplantation. Can you please help me?


Response from Francis Leo Delmonico, MD

The worldwide statistics on organ transplantation would likely have to be an ad hoc compilation of multiple databases: the United Network for Organ Sharing (UNOS) Scientific Registry on Organ Transplantation, Eurotransplant and others. By organ specificity there are international registries for kidney, pancreas, liver, heart and lung transplantation. Selected transplantation registries and databases are described below.

UNOS Scientific Registry on Organ Transplantation - www.unos.org...
The volume, accuracy, and reliability of the data available on transplantation are unprecedented in medicine. The UNOS Scientific Registry on Organ Transplantation (www.unos.org) is the most extensive single source of information available for a single form of medical treatment. Because of a federal mandate, solid organ transplantation is the only discipline in medicine in which complete demographic, risk, and outcome data [in the traditional sense] are available. UNOS administers the National Organ Procurement and Transplantation Network (OPTN) and the U.S. Scientific Registry on Organ Transplantation under contracts with the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. The OPTN portion of the database contains pretransplant information pertaining to transplant candidates on the OPTN waiting list, donor-recipient matching, cadaveric and living donors, and histocompatibility. The Scientific Registry Transplant database is the most complete medical database in the world, tracking outcomes of all solid organ transplants since October 1987.

Eurotransplant - www.eurotransplant.nl...
The Eurotransplant Foundation is a non-profit organization whose main aim is to encourage organ transplantation. Eurotransplant coordinates international exchange of donor organs across a region with 116 million inhabitants. Transplant centers and tissue-typing laboratories as well as donor hospitals in Belgium, the Netherlands, Luxembourg, Germany and Austria share in this effort. For Transplantation Statistics go to www.eurotransplant.nl...

Australia and New Zealand Dialysis and Transplant Registry (ANZDATA) - www.anzdata.org.au...
The ANZDATA collects a wide range of statistics that relate to the outcomes of treatment of those with end stage renal failure. The data are collected twice a year. The main results are published in an annual report, with interim analyses and publications occurring throughout the year. Data is collected from all dialysis and transplant units in Australia and New Zealand at 31st March and 30th September each year. This encompasses all patient events that have occurred in the previous six months as well as a "snapshot" of all dialysis and transplants patients on those dates. The Annual Reports of the ANZDATA Registry are available. The full Reports are available since the 20th Report. Excerpts of the 19th Report are available.

United States Renal Data System (USRDS) - www.med.umich.edu...
The USRDS Database is a national data system that collects, analyzes, and distributes information about end-stage renal disease in the United States. Data on approximately 95% of all adult and kidney transplant recipients in the U.S. are in the USRDS Renal Transplant Database. The USRDS is funded directly by NIDDK in conjunction with the Health Care Financing Administration. The USRDS Coordinating Center is operated under a contract with the University of Michigan.

International Pancreas Transplant Registry
The IPTR is a scientific database collected from institutions performing pancreas transplants worldwide. The goals of the IPTR are to: collect data on all pancreas transplants performed worldwide, perform scientific analysis on collected pancreas transplantation data, and communicate information on pancreas transplantation to member institutions, the health care community, and the interested general public. The International Pancreas Transplant Registry is located at the University of Minnesota in Minneapolis. The IPTR maintains a database of all reported pancreas transplants worldwide. In cooperation with over 200 centers, the pretransplant and posttransplant courses of over 10,000 patients who have received pancreas transplants are followed. Biostatistical analyses are performed regularly and the results are presented at international and national scientific meetings. The original goal of the Registry was to collect information on both pancreas and islet cell transplants. However, with the growth in pancreas transplantation data, the responsibility for the records of the islet cell transplantation component was transferred in 1987 as the International Islet Transplant Registry (IITR) to the University of Giessen, in Germany. The IPTR remained at the University of Minnesota and in 1997, the IPTR was contracted with the UNOS to collect the data on U.S. pancreas transplants for the Scientific Studies Committee of UNOS. This led to organization of a UNOS/US Pancreas Transplant Registry. Today, the IPTR continues to maintain a close working relationship with UNOS, ITR, Eurotransplant, and other registries throughout the world. The IPTR databases currently include information on the following parameters: recipient demographics, recipient history, immunological information, operative techniques, preservation regimen, transplantation of other organs to the same recipient, donor information, recipient graft function, transplant complications, and recipient/graft survival.

International Islet Transplant Registry (IITR) - www.insulin-free.org...
The IITR was originally part of the IPTR, but with the growth in pancreas transplantation data the responsibility for the records of the islet cell transplantation component was transferred in 1987 as the IITR to the University of Giessen, in Germany. The function of the IITR is to collect, analyze, and report data on all islet (allo-, auto, xeno-) transplants performed throughout the world.

International Society for Heart and Lung Transplantation (ISHLT) Heart/Lung Registry Database - www.ishlt.org...
The ISHLT has over 1800 members from more than 45 countries, representing more than 10 different disciplines involved in the management and treatment of end-stage heart and lung disease. The ISHLT Heart/Lung Registry Database reports worldwide heart transplantation experience since 1982, and is maintained in Dallas, Texas.

Intestinal Transplant Registry (ITR) - www.lhsc.on.ca...
The Intestinal Transplant Registry was established in 1994 to review the worldwide experience for the 4th International Symposium on Small Bowel Transplantation. The ITR collects data and prepares a report every 2 years. The ITR collects the following types of information from all intestinal transplants: demographics, such as gender and age of recipient; pretransplant diagnosis leading to transplant; pretransplant status; type of transplant (bowel, bowel-liver, or "cluster transplant"); posttransplant status and complications; antirejection drugs taken by patients and donor information.

National Institute of Diabetes and Digestive and Kidney Diseases (NIDDK) Liver Transplantation Database - www.niddk.nih.gov...
The NIDDK LTD is leading the way for building consensus on methods for assessment of patient-reported outcomes in transplantation. The NIDDK LTD was established to prospectively investigate questions related to the experience of patients evaluated for and undergoing liver transplantation. An initial 4-year planning phase was used to develop data collection instruments and quality control procedures. The project was funded by the NIH and the contract was awarded to the Epidemiology Data Coordinating Center at the University of Pittsburgh and five liver transplant centers that carried out the pilot program between 1985 and 1989. During the implementation phase beginning in 1990, 3 clinical centers (Mayo Clinic, University of Nebraska Medical Center, and University of California at San Francisco) refined the data collection instruments and enrolled and followed consecutive liver transplant candidates who consented to be included in the protocol. The definitive phase of the NIDDK LTD was a prospective study (1990-1995) of follow-up data on consecutive patients referred for liver transplantation at these 3 centers.

Pulmonary Retransplant Registry - www.lhsc.on.ca...
The Pulmonary Retransplant Registry was established in late 1991 in order to provide a summary of the worldwide experience with redo lung transplantation at the 12th annual meeting of the International Society for Heart and Lung Transplantation in 1992. All known centers performing pulmonary transplants were invited to join the Pulmonary Retransplant Registry and to provide information about their retransplant patients for the database. Programs from approximately 50 centers in North America, Europe and Australia participate in this registry. The Pulmonary Retransplant Registry has been able to identify the predictors of survival and graft function after pulmonary retransplantation. The Registry collects the following types of information on all pulmonary retransplantations: demographics, pretransplant diagnosis leading to the initial lung transplant procedure, cause of graft failure after primary lung transplantation,recipient's condition before retransplantation, type of retransplant procedure (single lung or bilateral lung), posttransplantation complications and duration of intensive care unit and hospital stays, antirejection drugs taken by patients, long-term survival and lung graft function and donor information.

North American Pediatric Renal Transplant Cooperative Study (NAPRTCS) - camelot.emmes.com...
The purpose of the NAPRTCS is to identify, characterize and follow current practices and trends in therapy for children receiving renal allografts, dialysis or treatment for chronic renal insufficiency in participating centers in North America. Since 1987, the NAPRTCS has enrolled more than 10,000 children and adolescents from more than 140 participating transplant centers. Specific aims of the NAPRTCS are to:

--Characterize patient survival, graft survival and patient morbidity among pediatric renal allograft recipients, dialysis and chronic renal insufficiency patients.

--Follow growth of children who receive renal allografts, dialysis, or care for chronic renal insufficiency.

--Conduct special studies designed to answer questions pertaining to such topics as quality of life, rehabilitation and physical and mental development among selected subgroups of patients.

--Compare the data obtained from this North American study with information on pediatric renal transplantation and dialysis generated by the European Dialysis and Transplant Association (EDTA) and other pediatric renal care registries.

I'd say that's just the tip of the iceberg on the traditional route.

Btw, do you have any idea how much global wealth there really is?

reply to post by AGWskeptic

Originally posted by AGWskeptic
Do you have any idea how many transplants that would be.

I realize we could do the math.

If the market is $38 billion, and using Havoscope's average price for a kidney at $150,000. The number of purchasers would be 253,333 worldwide.

If you ask me, that number is likely very, very, very low.

In the US alone, there were 547,982 U.S. residents in 2008 under treatment for End-stage Renal Disease. (Link.)

With respect to the illegal organ trade, we aren't just talking about kidneys, but pretty much everything....corneas...livers...lungs...hearts...etc..

I think it's easy to see why this is a real problem.

The supply is nearly endless and very low risk to acquire...and the demand is definitely there.

some of the countries mentioned here are also ones w/high AIDS infection rates. it scares the hell out of me to think how many people may be getting infected organs without their knowledge.

Since I have never said a nice thing about Dick Cheney, I hope you will pay attention when I say that there is absolutely no evidence of hanky-panky in the way that Cheney got his new heart. No bribes, no jumping the line, no buying an organ.

The talk about organs being taken just before cremation must limit the theft (or harvesting) to only a very few organs - bones mostly, I think - because almost every soft organ begins to deteriorate immediately upon actual death, and a few start deteriorating while the donor is still alive. About ten years ago the TV and radio personality, Alistair Cooke, died at around 90, and it later turned out that his bones were stolen, deliberately mislabeled to pretend that the donor was under 60 and not cancerous (otherwise the bones would be unsuitable for transplant), and purchased and transplanted into a younger person who soon thereafter developed cancer and died as a result.

In fact, some soft organs begin deteriorating so rapidly that several years ago the DC city council actually passed a law that the corneas could be taken immediately upon death -- without waiting to find out if the deceased had signed an organ donor card or if his family consented to organ donation! As far as I know, this outrageous law has not yet been put into practice.

As with almost anything involving money - e.g., selling blood at blood banks - greed or need for money can lead to ugly things: With organs for cash, a living donor (or the family of a deceased) may conceal certain medical details (such as contagious diseases), the doctor or lab that harvest the organ and hopes to get a commission from the transaction may similarly fib about its suitability, and a doctor or hospital that expects to be paid for performing the transplant might be willing to turn a blind eye to anything that would cause the operation to be cancelled.

The people trying to "help" by making selling organs illegal are about as good as cold blooded murderers. They end up creating a black market where the "bad guys" get $150,000 and the poor people get basically nothing. Its sickening to me that people trying to "help" would violate me by telling me what I can and can't do with my own body. My body, my choice. People are DYING on the streets and its all because of hard-headed insistence on using violence as a solution to refuse people to allow organ selling. Wrong.

Great thread OP

Not only is there a black market for organs but there's also people looking to buy dead babies to grind into pills.

Dead Baby Pills: China’s New Stamina Enhancer

Dead baby pills

I understood that this went on but I was unaware of how big this whole operation actually is. What's even more shocking is that how little arrests have been made in most countries.
Thanks for making this thread, a S+F for you.

Originally posted by loam
A few months ago, the European division of CNN produced this report concerning and even sinister problem in the Sinai. And as you will see, these 'organ donors' aren't simply duped into selling their organs. They are taken by force.

JERUSALEM — An Israeli man has been charged with participation in a human trafficking ring that captured and tortured African migrants in Egypt’s neighboring Sinai desert, according to an indictment released Sunday.
Jerusalem

I heard the donor match is a 1 in 50,000 chance. Haven't been able to verify that on the internet.

Perhaps a majority of the organs are used to make expensive pharmaceuticals, or microbiological lab chemicals, like organ specific hormones or enzyme environments.

reply to post by MysticPearl

Society makes me nervous about the future. But so do the people on ATS who SHOULD care about things like this, yet can't be bothered.

It makes me nervous too, we've been desensitized.
I know what you mean, ATS has been desensitized aswell.
Shame.

This is one of those topics that everyone should jump on.

ETA: Good comment by the way, thank you.

reply to post by loam


Great post, thanks for the research! S&F

It's disturbing and especially in Egypt the situation is much much worse after the revolution.
Even the armed forces are turning a blind eye to the beduins.

People must start to accept death as a natural process.

To keep stalling death with medicinal advances is illogical.

No wonder there are 7billion people over-occupying this planet.

Me being one of them ^^

Nice thread by the way, very informative!! You did some great research friend

reply to post by loam


I did some extensive research some months ago. I'll return to read the whole thread before I add some of my own additions.

In regards to whats going on INSIDE the Sinai Desert of organ trafficking, don't be shocked when I tell you who the main perps involved and in cahoots with each other are: Israelis, Egyptians, Bedouins and don't be shocked....Hamas! Hundreds of "refugees" have gone missing in that area.....

Where did I get some of my information from? African refugees that made it across the border in to Israel who spoke of some shocking accounts of what they saw, some escaped from the Sinai "camps" !

Woa... great, in-depth article, OP!

But why did you wrote this:

On Wikipedia, the CURRENT article on organ harvesting says:

Organ harvesting (is) a general fiction...

...while the actual Wikipedia page on the link actually tells about most of the info you're reporting here.

But the UN being hesitant in recognizing this whole underground market tells a lot about the organization's own implication into it.

Israel is a foot of foreign (especially British) bankers in the Middle-East, the very same bunch of reptile parasites who have huge interests in UN humanitarian and banking institutions. As it seems, it's the British who would have started the whole thing... with the London Burkers gang in the 1830's!

Putting this in relation with the then vast and powerful British Empire, there's very good reasons to believe this horrific kind of organized smuggling was "exported" to British colonies in Africa, and then to the regions taken back from the Ottoman empire in the Middle-East. If you think about it, where else could that come from??? Only the British Empire, then the lovely, prestigious UN, has had such a widely-developed medical infrastructure in these countries.

While the smaller profiteers and their games are easy to see and report on, here is an invisible part of the spectrum we don't see.... that's not gonna be reported on CNN!

Seems like a good reason to collapse the economy and keep people poor.
Keeps the rich in good supply of organs.