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'Honour' violence is acceptable, say one in five young British Asians

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posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 07:50 AM
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reply to post by Freeborn
 



you never disproved the fact that 1.8 billion were killed in india by british in 200 years.British govt and its leaders were most genocidal and warmongering in history you never disproved it.

And bosnia has large coal reserves and as usual nato invaded it.


and you are talking about malvinas? yes as usual you stole it from argentina and its not falklands.
edit on 25-3-2012 by mkgandhas because: (no reason given)




posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 07:55 AM
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Originally posted by mkgandhas
reply to post by Freeborn
 



you never disproved the fact that 1.8 billion were killed in india by british in 200 years.British govt and its leaders were most genocidal and warmongering in history you never disproved it.

And bosnia has large coal reserves and as usual nato invaded it.


and you are talking about malvinas? yes as usual you stole it from argentina and its not falklands.
edit on 25-3-2012 by mkgandhas because: (no reason given)


dont bloody well start about the falklands
you will lose your argument and the thread will be closed
your what i would say conforms to a troll



posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 07:59 AM
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reply to post by davesmart
 


I am not interested in malvinas(there are 60 billion bbl there). But way Freeborn spoke showed the hidden genocidal and resource grabbing mentality and how superior the brits are to us 'barbarians' while the biggest mass murderers are they themselves .What utter hypocrisy.
edit on 25-3-2012 by mkgandhas because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 08:14 AM
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Originally posted by mkgandhas
reply to post by davesmart
 


I am not interested in malvinas(there are 60 billion bbl there). But way Freeborn spoke showed the hidden genocidal and resource grabbing mentality and how superior the brits are to us 'barbarians' while the biggest mass murderers are they themselves .What utter hypocrisy.
edit on 25-3-2012 by mkgandhas because: (no reason given)


hypocrisy it may well be, but no more than you are spouting
you added fuel to a controlled fire
expect an explosion



posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 08:24 AM
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reply to post by mkgandhas
 




you never disproved the fact that 1.8 billion were killed in india by british in 200 years.British govt and its leaders were most genocidal and warmongering in history you never disproved it.


It has been disproved so many times here on ATS that I am amazed you'd mention it again.



And bosnia has large coal reserves and as usual nato invaded it.


To be honest I don't know much about Bosnia etc but I'm sure NATO got involved to stop the genocide and it's coal deposits are really an irrelevance.
I do have a very good Serbian friend and he's told me some harrowing stories, none of which involved NATO forces.



and you are talking about malvinas? yes as usual you stole it from argentina and its not falklands.


Zzzzzz
It's The Falklands and will remain so as long as the islanders wish so.

Argentina didn't exist when we obtained it so we couldn't have stole it.
No-one apart from Britain has had a permanent colony there.
And we've discussed The Right To Self-Determination before.
Shame you are selective about human rights etc and think they only apply when it suits your bigotted opinions.

But we digress.

Again, do you think it's right for people to committ honour killings here in the UK even though it is against the law?

As I said before, a straight forward yes or no should suffice....or is that too difficult for you?



posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 08:27 AM
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reply to post by ollncasino
 



As Rāqib has said in Mufradāt, the Arabic word /‘izzat/ originally means that state that makes man resisting and mighty. It is for this reason that the hard and firm lands are called /‘azāz/ in Arabic.


All Muslim should do their best to avoid of sin, to conquer the baser self, this is the greatest jihad [struggle] is the jihad against self. It is a good and beautiful thing izzat. Your bible says something very similar;

Flee the evil desires of youth, and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, along with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart. (2 Timothy 2:22) (δίωκε) Pursue. Stronger than follow. A favorite word with Paul to denote the pursuit of moral and spiritual ends

So yes, all Muslim should try to live with 'izzat. So should everyone. The day this becomes bad is the day the world became Sodom or Gomorrah.

Islam teaches concerning this:

During the last hours of his lifetime when Imam Hassan (as) was asked by one of his companions named Junādat-ibn-’Abi-Sufyān to advise him, Imam stated some valuable and effective admonitions for him, among which was this:

“If you wish to be ‘honoured’ without having any tribe, and to have reverence without the power of government, then come out from the shade of sin, and settle in the glory of the obedience of Allah.”

And if we see that some verses of the Qur’ān introduce glory, besides Allah, for the Prophet (saw) and the believers, (like Sura Munāfiqūn, No. 63, verse 8 which says: “… Honour belongs to Allah and His Messenger and to the Believers, …”, it is for the reason that they have earned glory from the rays of the glory of Allah, too.

Then the verse introduces the way of reaching to glory as follows: “… to Him do ascend the good words and the righteous deed, He uplifts it; …”


There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with striving to the good words and righteous deeds.Perhaps the people being questioned did not understand that your definition means something evil, since we only know OUR definition of the word!




The site you have quoted is written by a Zionist person with clear hatred of all things Muslim, there is an agenda on his site, he is racist and bigoted in all his quotes, and none of his articles are in the least objective. This is a American/Zionist think tank (with only 20 people working there) has the stated objective of;

The Middle East Forum, a think tank, seeks to define and promote American interests in the Middle East. It defines U.S. interests to include fighting radical Islam, whether terroristic or lawful; working for Palestinian acceptance of Israel; improving the management of U.S. democracy efforts; reducing energy dependence on the Middle East; more robustly asserting U.S. interests vis-à-vis Saudi Arabia; and countering the Iranian threat. [this is a direct quote from their site]



Throughout his career, Daniel Pipes has exhibited a troubling bigotry toward Muslims and Islam. As early as 1983, even an otherwise positive Washington Post book review noted that Pipes displays "a disturbing hostility to contemporary Muslims...he professes respect for Muslims but is frequently contemptuous of them." Pipes, said the reviewer, "is swayed by the writings of anti-Muslim writers...[the book] is marred by exaggerations, inconsistencies, and evidence of hostility to the subject." (The Washington Post, 12/11/83)

I think we can find other more objective sources for our information.

All that said, the BBC article said only 6% of those who agreed all Muslim should live according to 'izzat, which I defined already in the beginning of this post, believed violence was a way to obtain that. And this was only 6% of those questioned, and we have no idea how they obtained their polling group or how many were polled. I do not see this to be an adequate judge of what Muslims believe, since it is not said they polled Muslims, but instead Asians.


edit on 25-3-2012 by Jameela because: (no reason given)
edit on 25-3-2012 by Jameela because: (no reason given)
edit on 25-3-2012 by Jameela because: (no reason given)
edit on 25-3-2012 by Jameela because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 08:42 AM
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Originally posted by Jameela
reply to post by ollncasino
 



As Rāqib has said in Mufradāt, the Arabic word /‘izzat/ originally means that state that makes man resisting and mighty. It is for this reason that the hard and firm lands are called /‘azāz/ in Arabic.


All Muslim should do their best to avoid of sin, to conquer the baser self, this is the greatest jihad [struggle] is the jihad against self. It is a good and beautiful thing izzat. Your bible says something very similar;

Flee the evil desires of youth, and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, along with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart. (2 Timothy 2:22) (δίωκε) Pursue. Stronger than follow. A favorite word with Paul to denote the pursuit of moral and spiritual ends

So yes, all Muslim should try to live with 'izzat. So should everyone. The day this becomes bad is the day the world became Sodom or Gomorrah.

Islam teaches concerning this:

During the last hours of his lifetime when Imam Hassan (as) was asked by one of his companions named Junādat-ibn-’Abi-Sufyān to advise him, Imam stated some valuable and effective admonitions for him, among which was this:

“If you wish to be ‘honoured’ without having any tribe, and to have reverence without the power of government, then come out from the shade of sin, and settle in the glory of the obedience of Allah.”

And if we see that some verses of the Qur’ān introduce glory, besides Allah, for the Prophet (saw) and the believers, (like Sura Munāfiqūn, No. 63, verse 8 which says: “… Honour belongs to Allah and His Messenger and to the Believers, …”, it is for the reason that they have earned glory from the rays of the glory of Allah, too.

Then the verse introduces the way of reaching to glory as follows: “… to Him do ascend the good words and the righteous deed, He uplifts it; …”


There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with striving to the good words and righteous deeds.Perhaps the people being questioned did not understand that your definition means something evil, since we only know OUR definition of the word!




The site you have quoted is written by a Zionist person with clear hatred of all things Muslim, there is an agenda on his site, he is racist and bigoted in all his quotes, and none of his articles are in the least objective. This is a American/Zionist think tank (with only 20 people working there) has the stated objective of;

The Middle East Forum, a think tank, seeks to define and promote American interests in the Middle East. It defines U.S. interests to include fighting radical Islam, whether terroristic or lawful; working for Palestinian acceptance of Israel; improving the management of U.S. democracy efforts; reducing energy dependence on the Middle East; more robustly asserting U.S. interests vis-à-vis Saudi Arabia; and countering the Iranian threat. [this is a direct quote from their site]



Throughout his career, Daniel Pipes has exhibited a troubling bigotry toward Muslims and Islam. As early as 1983, even an otherwise positive Washington Post book review noted that Pipes displays "a disturbing hostility to contemporary Muslims...he professes respect for Muslims but is frequently contemptuous of them." Pipes, said the reviewer, "is swayed by the writings of anti-Muslim writers...[the book] is marred by exaggerations, inconsistencies, and evidence of hostility to the subject." (The Washington Post, 12/11/83)

I think we can find other more objective sources for our information.

All that said, the BBC article said only 6% of those who agreed all Muslim should live according to 'izzat, which I defined already in the beginning of this post, believed violence was a way to obtain that. And this was only 6% of those questioned, and we have no idea how they obtained their polling group or how many were polled. I do not see this to be an adequate judge of what Muslims believe, since it is not said they polled Muslims, but instead Asians.


edit on 25-3-2012 by Jameela because: (no reason given)
edit on 25-3-2012 by Jameela because: (no reason given)
edit on 25-3-2012 by Jameela because: (no reason given)
edit on 25-3-2012 by Jameela because: (no reason given)



ffs
religion again being spouted from a book written by you dont know who
was you there at the time of writing...no
so stick your religion in the fire
its caused more deaths than the plague



posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 08:42 AM
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Originally posted by Jameela
All that said, the BBC article said only 6% of those who agreed all Muslim should live according to 'izzat, which I defined already in the beginning of this post, believed violence was a way to obtain that. And this was only 6% of those questioned, and we have no idea how they obtained their polling group or how many were polled. I do not see this to be an adequate judge of what Muslims believe, since it is not said they polled Muslims, but instead Asians.


The Daily Mail article states that only 6% of Muslims polled (the code word for Muslim is 'Asian' in the UK press) believed that it was justifiable to murder in the pursuit of honour killings, while 1 in 5 stated that violence in pursuit of honour was justified.



posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 08:44 AM
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Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by Jameela
All that said, the BBC article said only 6% of those who agreed all Muslim should live according to 'izzat, which I defined already in the beginning of this post, believed violence was a way to obtain that. And this was only 6% of those questioned, and we have no idea how they obtained their polling group or how many were polled. I do not see this to be an adequate judge of what Muslims believe, since it is not said they polled Muslims, but instead Asians.


The Daily Mail article states that only 6% of Muslims polled (the code word for Muslim is 'Asian' in the UK press) believed that it was justifiable to murder in the pursuit of honour killings, while 1 in 5 stated that violence in pursuit of honour was justified.



LOL Code word? Have people gone insane?

If you want to show an accurate poll then show one that has asked Muslims, that tells how many were polled and how they obtained there polling group then we can discuss it logically.

Until then this thread is bunk... also I recommend you read the MUSLIM definition of 'izzat which I posted above!
edit on 25-3-2012 by Jameela because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 08:46 AM
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reply to post by Freeborn
 


disproved.only according to british liars.Revisionism of history.

Charles Dickens talked of wishing to "do my utmost do exterminate the (Indian) race."

winston churchill quotes:

I do not understand this squeamishness about the use of gas. We have definitely adopted the position at the Peace Conference of arguing in favour of the retention of gas as a permanent method of warfare. It is sheer affectation to lacerate a man with the poisonous fragment of a bursting shell and to boggle at making his eyes water by means of lachrymatory gas. I am strongly in favour of using poisoned gas against uncivilised tribes. The moral effect should be so good that the loss of life should be reduced to a minimum. It is not necessary to use only the most deadly gases: gases can be used which cause great inconvenience and would spread a lively terror and yet would leave no serious permanent effects on most of those affected ... We cannot, in any circumstances acquiesce to the non-utilisation of any weapons which are available to procure a speedy termination of the disorder which prevails on the frontier.
-----------
I hate Indians. They are a beastly people with a beastly religion.
------
Malthusian over-population as an excuse for allowing mass death is obscene. Yet Churchill put it more bluntly in the only public statement of Churchill’s about the Bengal famine that I have been able to find is Churchill’s notorious anti-Indian comment that “they breed like rabbits” as quoted by India ’s Nobel Prize-winning economist Professor Amartya Sen in an essay to Asian Institute of Technology (2002): “Winston Churchill's famous remark about the 1943 Bengal famine - that it was caused by the tendency of the people to breed like rabbits - belongs to this general tradition of blaming the colonial subject”.
----------
go through indian history books on british,it was a common british policy to starve indians to make them feeble and obedient.

1998 Economics Nobel Laureate Professor Amartya Sen (Harvard University, formerly at Cambridge University, who witnessed the Bengal Famine as a child and was awarded the Nobel Prize for studies on famines, including the Bengal Famine) is quite clear that the Bengal Famine was NOT due to absence of food but to greatly elevated price in a merciless, British-ruled free market in which those who couldn’t buy food simply starved. Burma occupation, Churchill’s shipping cut-backs, and divide-and-rule British granting of Indian provincial food autonomy and other factors all contributed to the real killer – the huge increase in the price of rice, the Bengali staple that led to millions starving in the midst of plenty.


your leaders many were like a bunch of hitlers
aangirfan.blogspot.in...

You disproved nothing .The deliberate policy of famine ,mass executions and genocides was appalling and led to death of 1.8 billion indians.



posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 08:50 AM
link   



Islam teaches concerning this:

During the last hours of his lifetime when Imam Hassan (as) was asked by one of his companions named Junādat-ibn-’Abi-Sufyān to advise him, Imam stated some valuable and effective admonitions for him, among which was this:

“If you wish to be ‘honoured’ without having any tribe, and to have reverence without the power of government, then come out from the shade of sin, and settle in the glory of the obedience of Allah.”

And if we see that some verses of the Qur’ān introduce glory, besides Allah, for the Prophet (saw) and the believers, (like Sura Munāfiqūn, No. 63, verse 8 which says: “… Honour belongs to Allah and His Messenger and to the Believers, …”, it is for the reason that they have earned glory from the rays of the glory of Allah, too.

Then the verse introduces the way of reaching to glory as follows: “… to Him do ascend the good words and the righteous deed, He uplifts it; …”


There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with striving to the good words and righteous deeds.Perhaps the people being questioned did not understand that your definition means something evil, since we only know OUR definition of the word!








ffs
religion again being spouted from a book written by you dont know who
was you there at the time of writing...no
so stick your religion in the fire
its caused more deaths than the plague


Since you are attacking my religion I find it proper to tell you what it is we do believe from the holy Books you are attacking, your opinion of it is beside the point. You attack a word therefore i will give you its definition. Everyone has an opinion. It is good to find what the truth might really be however before attacking something. Asking a Zionist what a Muslim believes is a baseless exercise.



posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 08:53 AM
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US paid close to $50,000 per shooting spree death, page 1

www.abovetopsecret.com...
i guess there are honor killings and their are just killings
as long as you pay...
its OK

funny how some people are offended by some and not the others



posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 09:01 AM
link   

Originally posted by mkgandhas
reply to post by Freeborn
 


disproved.only according to british liars.Revisionism of history.

Charles Dickens talked of wishing to "do my utmost do exterminate the (Indian) race."

winston churchill quotes:

I do not understand this squeamishness about the use of gas. We have definitely adopted the position at the Peace Conference of arguing in favour of the retention of gas as a permanent method of warfare. It is sheer affectation to lacerate a man with the poisonous fragment of a bursting shell and to boggle at making his eyes water by means of lachrymatory gas. I am strongly in favour of using poisoned gas against uncivilised tribes. The moral effect should be so good that the loss of life should be reduced to a minimum. It is not necessary to use only the most deadly gases: gases can be used which cause great inconvenience and would spread a lively terror and yet would leave no serious permanent effects on most of those affected ... We cannot, in any circumstances acquiesce to the non-utilisation of any weapons which are available to procure a speedy termination of the disorder which prevails on the frontier.
-----------
I hate Indians. They are a beastly people with a beastly religion.
------
Malthusian over-population as an excuse for allowing mass death is obscene. Yet Churchill put it more bluntly in the only public statement of Churchill’s about the Bengal famine that I have been able to find is Churchill’s notorious anti-Indian comment that “they breed like rabbits” as quoted by India ’s Nobel Prize-winning economist Professor Amartya Sen in an essay to Asian Institute of Technology (2002): “Winston Churchill's famous remark about the 1943 Bengal famine - that it was caused by the tendency of the people to breed like rabbits - belongs to this general tradition of blaming the colonial subject”.
----------
go through indian history books on british,it was a common british policy to starve indians to make them feeble and obedient.

1998 Economics Nobel Laureate Professor Amartya Sen (Harvard University, formerly at Cambridge University, who witnessed the Bengal Famine as a child and was awarded the Nobel Prize for studies on famines, including the Bengal Famine) is quite clear that the Bengal Famine was NOT due to absence of food but to greatly elevated price in a merciless, British-ruled free market in which those who couldn’t buy food simply starved. Burma occupation, Churchill’s shipping cut-backs, and divide-and-rule British granting of Indian provincial food autonomy and other factors all contributed to the real killer – the huge increase in the price of rice, the Bengali staple that led to millions starving in the midst of plenty.


your leaders many were like a bunch of hitlers
aangirfan.blogspot.in...

You disproved nothing .The deliberate policy of famine ,mass executions and genocides was appalling and led to death of 1.8 billion indians.





the Mullah will raise his voice and remind them of other days when the sons of the prophet drove the infidel from the plains of India, and ruled at Delhi, as wide an Empire as the Kafir holds to-day: when the true religion strode proudly through the earth and scorned to lie hidden and neglected among the hills: when mighty princes ruled in Bagdad, and all men knew that there was one God, and Mahomet was His prophet. And the young men hearing these things will grip their Martinis, and pray to Allah, that one day He will bring some Sahib (prince) - best prize of all - across their line of sight at seven hundred yards so that, at least, they may strike a blow for insulted and threatened Islam."



"to set up an Arab government, and to make it take the responsibility, with our aid and our guidance and with an effective measure of our support, until they are strong enough to stand alone ... (and) to reduce our commitments and to extricate ourselves from our burdens while at the same time honorably discharging our obligations and building up strong and effective Arab government which will always be the friend of Britain.



"How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries, improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.

A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement, the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.

Individual Muslims may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it.

No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome."



posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 09:08 AM
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lol @ your quotes. No objectivity there huh? you people amaze me at your ignorances



posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 09:10 AM
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reply to post by mkgandhas
 


First of all, your post proves nothing.
Of course some of our leaders had some sort of prejudice against Indians etc.
That doesn't mean to say they condoned genocide at all let alone to the level you claim.
Secondly, the people you quote are also pursuing their own personal agenda's and supply no reliable source whatsoever.
Thirdly, there is no evidence whatsoever to support your ridiculous claim.
Fourthly, this isn't the topic under discussion.
You insist on repeating your unsubstantiated and off topic claims yet refuse to answer straight forward, on topic questions.

So, yet again, do you support the practice of honour killings in the UK - YES OR NO?



posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 09:17 AM
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reply to post by ollncasino
 


are you kind of suggesting the media is beginning to muddy the waters between muslims and chinese?



posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 09:19 AM
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Originally posted by Jameela
LOL Code word? Have people gone insane?


The British press is certainly bending over backwards to avoid offending Muslims. Hence, Asian = Muslim.


Originally posted by Jameela
If you want to show an accurate poll then show one that has asked Muslims, that tells how many were polled and how they obtained there polling group then we can discuss it logically.


Indeed we can. Here is the poll.

You will see that all of the references to 'Asian' actually refers to Muslim. Only 254 Muslims were asked though so the poll is quite small.

Comres

edit on 25-3-2012 by ollncasino because: spelling



posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 09:24 AM
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wow christians had some of the highest percentages of agree
whats up with that?
its ok to punish female members of the family
MUSLIMS 6 percent
CHRISTIANS 8 percent
edit on 25-3-2012 by Danbones because: (no reason given)


according the poll in the above link this thread is kinda fishie
edit on 25-3-2012 by Danbones because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 09:26 AM
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Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by Jameela
LOL Code word? Have people gone insane?


The British press is certainly bending over backwards to avoid offending Muslims. Hence, Asian = Muslim.


Originally posted by Jameela
If you want to show an accurate poll then show one that has asked Muslims, that tells how many were polled and how they obtained there polling group then we can discuss it logically.


Indeed we can. Here is the poll.

You will see that all of the references to 'Asian' actually refers to Muslim. Only 254 Muslims were asked though so the poll is quite small.

Comres

edit on 25-3-2012 by ollncasino because: spelling


LOL Asian can mean anything

www.worldatlas.com...

That is Asia!

Supposedly they did poll some Muslims, but out of those polled 92% did NOT agree with any physical punishment against a family member who committed sinful acts. Physical punishment can mean something as simple as spanking or slap by the way, it does not necessarily mean murder! Only 16 of those 254 polled believed physical punishment to be alright.

Also, if you look, a higher percentage of Christians polled agreed with Physical punishment, as 8% of all Christians polled believed this was alright.
edit on 25-3-2012 by Jameela because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 09:52 AM
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Originally posted by Jameela
Supposedly they did poll some Muslims, but out of those polled 92% did NOT agree with any physical punishment against a family member who committed sinful acts. Physical punishment can mean something as simple as spanking or slap by the way, it does not necessarily mean murder!

Also, if you look, a higher percentage of Christians polled agreed with Physical punishment, as 8% of all Christians polled believed this was alright.
edit on 25-3-2012 by Jameela because: (no reason given)


If you look at page 4 of the survey you will find that 20% of young Muslims support physcial punishment for female family members.

You are correct however that out of the small number of Christians asked (14 people) 23% supported physcial punishment for female family members.

However, 14 people has no statistical validity what so ever (generally speaking you need at least 30 people in any sort of survey).

On the other hand, the poll of 254 Muslims has some statistical validity.






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