'Honour' violence is acceptable, say one in five young British Asians

Originally posted by babloyi
Are you suggesting muslims are people who murder women in the name of family honour?

Another knee jerk defence of anything Islamic?

Muslims carry out 91% of honour killings world wide

www.meforum.org...

Originally posted by petrus4
Back off, olln. Whatever wrong I may have done nusnus or babloyi myself, I will accept no more of your poison towards them; or from anyone else for that matter.

Nusnus is very nice and reasonable.

Babloyi on the other hand defends everything Islamic in a knee jerk like manner. I have had long arguments with him in the past.

Originally posted by petrus4
If as a non-Muslim, you would see me as a traitor for this, then so be it. If it is also true, that as moderates, they would not do the same for me against the radicals of their own faith, as I am an infidel to them, then so be it also.

But my own Goddess has pleaded to me for them, and I will ignore her no longer.

Your own goddess has pleaded to you for them?

I find people with strong religious convictions, Muslim or otherwise, quite irrational at times and somewhat scary.

Originally posted by petrus4
Let the fascist cowards behind keyboards, as said, go and find real, radical Muslims to fight, if they wish for conflict. I will see no more bile hurled at people of genuine faith and conscience, whose only crime is having Allah as their ishta deva.

Why should religious peoples' opinions based on their faith be worthy of special respect?

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
The OP has actually distorted the facts of this report from his very first post. But hey who cares about facts when it's easier to post a distorted piece with the intention of rallying anger against young British Asians.

You obviously didn't read the link in the OP.

The following is the headline from the Daily Mail article

'Honour' violence is acceptable, say one in five young British Asians

Daily Mail

Nor have you read the full report.

Originally posted by petrus4
I think it's necessary to emphasise here, the degree of intense fear of Islam that exists in non-Islamic society, at this point. Islam is largely regarded as a social pathogen by Western society, so if women in hijab are seen, it is considered an indication that the local area has become infected.

I am old enough to remember when Islam was viewed in a neutral or at least indifferent manner by Western people.

Regarding Islam as a 'social pathogen' as you put it, is an attitude that has orginated and grown as Muslim immigrants have moved to the West. It largely didn't exist before Western people had to live beside Muslims.

Interestingly, on ATS, the number of posters with anti-Muslim attitudes and the strength of their feelings has increased greatly in the last few years.

Honour killings carried out by Muslims do nothing to improve such negative perceptions of Muslims.

It should be remembered that most Muslims are reasonable and just want a quiet life. Unfortunately there are few, if any, Muslim communities that don't have a number of radicals which give the moderate Muslims a bad name.

Originally posted by ollncasino
Why should religious peoples' opinions based on their faith be worthy of special respect?

The point is whether or not they are hypocritical, or whether their behaviour is consistent with (at least) the positive directives of said religion. The three people mentioned, as far as I am concerned at least, are not hypocrites.

You're also quite welcome to consider me completely insane for my own mention of Kali, if it makes you more comfortable. Truthfully, I've at times wondered if I am schizophrenic myself. I've had professional assurance (as in a psychologist) that I am not, however; I'm just very theistic, due to direct experience.

Originally posted by petrus4
The point is whether or not they are hypocritical, or whether their behaviour is consistent with (at least) the positive directives of said religion. The three people mentioned, as far as I am concerned at least, are not hypocrites.

They certainly are not hypocrites. Neither am I.

What I find interesting is how quickly people will play the race/bigot/facist card when anyone condemns radical Muslims.

How much more radical can you get than killing members of your own family for reasons of honour?

In Europe Muslims carry out 96% of Honour Killings
In North America Muslims carry out 84% of Honour Killings

meforum

reply to post by ollncasino


Have you actually bothered to read the survey, or are you just peddling ill-informed hate which is derived from the intellectual dishonesty of the Daily Fail ?

The question ''do you agree that families should live according to the concept honour'' (nothing mentioned about violence in the concept) was answered in the affirmative by 79% of Sikhs, 70% of Muslims, 64% of Hindus and 62% of Christians. Not much of a difference between faiths, there.

Of those polled, Christians were the most likely to support physical punishment towards females for the following behaviour: ''generally disobeying their father's wishes'' and ''dressing in a manner unacceptable to the community''.

Sikhs were the most likely to support physical punishment towards females for ''wanting to marry someone considered unacceptable by the family or community''.

Hindus were the most likely to support physical punishment towards women for ''wanting to terminate an existing or prearranged marriage''.

Overall, Christians (23%) were the most likely to advocate honour violence towards women, and the least likely (91%) to denounce honour killings.

As for the supposed statistic that ''91% of honour killings are committed by Muslims'', well, there are 1.5bn Muslims and only 30m Sikhs, so it doesn't take a mathematical genius to work out that Sikh honour killings will form a tiny percentage of the overall total.

But, the religion aspect is really a red herring; an ICM poll showed that 34% of British people thought that a woman was, at least, ''partially responsible'' for being raped if she dressed provocatively or acted flirtatiously.

Another poll, conducted by the Home Office, found that 20% of British people think that it's ''acceptable'' for a man to hit his wife or girlfriend if she ''dresses in sexy or revealing clothes in public''.

This is the major flaw with the Islamophobic hysteria that is based on polls relating to the attitudes of British Muslims; polls carried out amongst the general population consistently show that a sizeable minority of people still hold antediluvian and objectionable views on a variety of social issues. It's hardly a surprise, therefore, that a sizeable minority of any given group will also mirror the views of the general population.

If, for example, a poll showed that 20% of Muslims thought that it was OK to beat their wives for dressing inappropriately, then this forum would be awash with mouth-foaming Islamophobes spewing their hatred. Yet, in context, the poll results would merely tally with the attitudes of non-Muslim Britons.

Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes
Have you actually bothered to read the survey, or are you just peddling ill-informed hate which is derived from the intellectual dishonesty of the Daily Fail ?

I see that you didn't make it to page 4 of the survey.

You will find the 20% that the Daily Mail refers to.

If you are going to accuse me of "peddling ill-informed hate", then at least put enough effort into it that you get beyond page 1 of the survey.

By the way, if I were you, I would write a strongly worded letter to the Daily Mail and the BBC (who commisioned the survey).

That should do the trick.

The BBC - those peddlers of ill-informed hate.

One Million Hijabs for Shaima Alawadi

www.facebook.com...

Police Records Cast Doubt on California "Hate Crime"

Even before the facts were in, the media leapt at the chance to expose the bigotry and intolerance so prevalent in America.

Women around the world have been posting pictures of themselves wearing the hijab, in a movement called "One Million Hijabs for Shaima."

But facts are beginning to emerge, and things aren't looking good for the media. Shaima was planning to divorce her husband and move to Texas.

Her daughter Fatima was distraught over an impending arranged marriage with her cousin. As Fatima was being interviewed by police, she received a text message, which said: "The detective will find out tell them cnt talk."

www.answeringmuslims.com...

reply to post by ollncasino


What ?!

I already quoted the results from page 4 of the survey, which showed that Christians were the group who were most likely to support honour violence towards women.

But please don't let facts get in the way of your hate and fear-driven agenda.

Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes
I already quoted the results from page 4 of the survey, which showed that Christians were the group who were most likely to support honour violence towards women.

Perhaps Christians do carry out more honour killings than Muslims. That doesn't explain however why

Muslims carryout 96% of Honour Killings in Europe

www.meforum.org...

Strange then that the 20% figure quoted by the Daily Mail sent you into such a spasm of political correctness.

Yet not so much that you could bring yourself to condemn honour killings.

Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes
But please don't let facts get in the way of your hate and fear-driven agenda.

Have you written to the Daily Mail and the BBC yet to tell them of your disapproval of their "hate and fear-driven agenda"?

Let me know how you get on.

BBC Documentary reveals: "1 in 5 Young British Muslims Approve of Honor Violence"



Go to 4:00 and you will see that the BBC documentry is saying the same as my opening Post.

The BBC documentary pulls no punches, as much as you would obviously prefer it to.

Interestingly, apologists for radical Muslims such as yourself are quick to accuse others of hate.

Yet, I note that at no point in any of your posts on this thread have you condemned honour killings in any way.

Your silence speaks volumes.

If only you could put as much effort into stopping Muslim men killing women in honour killings as you do in trying to stop the Daily Mail, the BBC and I talking about, you might actually do something useful for a change.

Originally posted by ollncasino
Strange then that the 20% figure quoted by the Daily Mail sent you into such a spasm of political correctness.

Strange that they didn't quote the 23% figure for the Christians polled.

Originally posted by ollncasino
Have you written to the Daily Mail and the BBC yet to tell them of your disapproval of their "hate and fear-driven agenda"?

Well, that would be a waste of time with the Daily Fail. They know full well what they're doing. Their intellectual dishonesty is well documented.

The BBC, presumably, are just after ratings. ''20% of British Muslims approve of honour violence'' is going to get far more of the fear-driven, frothy-mouthed cowards watching, as opposed to ''23% of British Christians approve of honour violence''.

Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes
Strange that they didn't quote the 23% figure for the Christians polled.

Yet the following fact appears not to have sunk into your Politically Correct mind

Muslims carry out 96% of Honour Killings in Europe

www.meforum.org...

Originally posted by ollncasino
The BBC, presumably, are just after ratings.

Of course, it has never occurred to you that you could just be wrong.

You still haven't condemned honour killings in any way. Your silence speaks volumes. I hope it is nice being in bed with Muslim radicals. They do say that you can judge people by the company the keep...

Did you watch the BBC video? Did you catch the bit where it said the vast majority of honour killings were by the Muslim community?


It looks as if you are wrong. Very wrong.

Originally posted by ollncasino
Muslims carry out 96% of Honour Killings in Europe

Yeah, because honour killings are prevalent in areas of the Middle East and South Asia, where, incredibly enough, there are lots of Muslims.

If you factor in that there are 50 Muslims to every 1 Sikh in the world, then I think you'll find that Sikh honour killings are just as prevalent.

Regardless, that has absolutely nothing to do with the poll results which you - spurred on by the Daily Fail - are intentionally misrepresenting.

Originally posted by ollncasino
Of course, it has never occurred to you that you could just be wrong.

Of course I'm not; don't be ridiculous.

Originally posted by ollncasino
You still haven't condemned honour killings in any way.

You're not making any logical sense whatsoever.

Originally posted by ollncasino
Did you watch the BBC video? Did you catch the bit where it said the vast majority of honour killings were by the Muslim community?

Honour killings are a cultural phenomenon which is most prevalent in regions of the Middle East and, particularly, South Asia, where large swathes of the population happen to be Muslim.

I can't spell it out any more clearly for you.

Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes
Yeah, because honour killings are prevalent in areas of the Middle East and South Asia, where, incredibly enough, there are lots of Muslims.

That doesn't even make sense. Because there are a lot of Muslims in the Middle East and South Asia, that explains why Muslims carry out 96% of honour killings in Europe?

You are making no sense.

Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes
If you factor in that there are 50 Muslims to every 1 Sikh in the world, then I think you'll find that Sikh honour killings are just as prevalent.

How does that explain that even though Muslims make up about 3% of Europe's population, they carry out 96% of honour killings in Europe.

Are you a broken record?

You're not making any logical sense whatsoever.

Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes
Honour killings are a cultural phenomenon which is most prevalent in regions of the Middle East and, particularly, South Asia, where large swathes of the population happen to be Muslim.

Are you a bot? Am I speaking to real person?

Are you some politically correct autobot that has defective programming?

It certainly looks like it.

Originally posted by ollncasino
That doesn't even make sense. Because there are a lot of Muslims in the Middle East and South Asia, that explains why Muslims carry out 96% of honour killings in Europe?

Of course it makes sense. Behave yourself.

I'm really trying to put this as simply as I can, but you cannot or will not understand:

Honour killings are a cultural phenomenon which largely occur in parts of the Middle East and South Asia. These regions are heavily populated by Muslims.

Obviously, as Europe has a lot of immigrants from these regions, then honour killings which occur here will largely stem from these communities.

How can it possibly be made any clearer ?!

Hey, olln!
It's funny that you accuse me of "knee-jerk defence" of anything Islamic. I could do the same, and accuse you of knee-jerk attack of anything Islamic. Good thing there is balance in the world, ey?

Why do you keep peddling that meforum.org link as if it is anything meaningful? You realise it is just a platform for anti-islamism, right? The about page says as much. And if you look at the board members and their list of "experts", you'll see they're just a platform for pushing Israeli Zionist agenda in the US. President of the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs (which dragged the US into its current problems in Iraq, and advocates total war with all of the Middle East), from the Israeli Ministry for Foreign Affairs, from Zionist Organisation of America, from the Golden Circle, etc.
What a fine bunch of people to pretend to want to be scholarly while attacking Islam!

As for the article itself, its methodology is absolutely absurd. How did it do its "study"? By "analysing 172 english news articles from around the world". That has got to be the stupidest way to do it ever. Which articles did they choose? The ones specifically targetting muslims?

So yeah, your constant bolding and linking to that article isn't really meaningful in any way.
BTW, your BBC video makes no mention of "1 in 5 young british muslims". You may again make claims that "asian" is a euphimism for muslim, but again, the study itself specifically mentioned several religions, so that is nonsense.
The original study isn't very good either. It presents 2 different values for "physical punishment for honour". Perhaps if they had worded their questions better, they'd have gotten better results.

Not that you (olln) care, but a possible explanation is that when they were presented with the list of things that bring dishonour, they responded at what they thought what (some in) the community might consider justification for punishment, while the 6% result is them personally.

Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes
Honour killings are a cultural phenomenon which largely occur in parts of the Middle East and South Asia. These regions are heavily populated by Muslims.

Obviously, as Europe has a lot of immigrants from these regions, then honour killings which occur here will largely stem from these communities.

How can it possibly be made any clearer ?!

So while Muslims make up only about 3-4% of Europes population, they carry out 96% of all of the honour killings.

While Muslims make up only about 1% of the North American popualtion, they carry out 84% of all of the honour killings.

But because lots of Muslims live in the Middle East and South Asia, that explains why such a small minority of the European population kill so many women in honour killings?

I am sorry, but your attempt to spin away Muslim honour killings in the West has fallen flat on its face.


Do you actually stop and think before peddling your ill-informed pro-Muslim honour killings hateful spin?

And you still have not condemned honour killings in any way.

Your silence is deafening.

Hey, babloyi. My old sparring partner.

Still defending the indefensible?

Little things like Muslim families killing their wives and daughters in the name of honour?

Originally posted by babloyi

So yeah, your constant bolding and linking to that article isn't really meaningful in any way.
BTW, your BBC video makes no mention of "1 in 5 young british muslims".

You need search no more for that 1 in 5.

Start watching from around 4:00 mins and you will see that the BBC video mentions that 18% said that violence was justified if this code was broken and the family ‘shamed’.


It looks as if you are wrong.

Originally posted by babloyi
You may again make claims that "asian" is a euphimism for muslim, but again, the study itself specifically mentioned several religions, so that is nonsense.

I think you have missed the point. To be fair you are coming into this thread very late.

While UK newspapers call Muslims who have committed a crime 'Asians' (I provided a list here to prove my point) the BBC documentary itself pulls no punches and identifies Muslims as the perpetrators of the vast majority of cases.

At 4:32 mins,

"It needs to be said that the vast majority that we see involve the Muslim community of which I am a member.

My view is that there is no place for multi-cultural sensitivity in this situation.

This is something that we cannot tolerate. The moment that I stop looking at a community because someone tells me it is too sensitive, is the moment I pack up my file and walk out the door".

So where are you coming from babloyi in your knee jerk defence of anything Islamic?

Do you think it is just too sensitive to look at the Muslim community?

Should we all be more multi-cultural sensitive?

In other words, do you feel that Muslims should be allowed to continue to kill their wives and daughters in the pursuit of honour?

It is only a cultural difference after all.

According to police statistics in 2010/11 fiscal year there were 642 Murders committed in total. This only murder, and does not include attempted murder. Police estimate that up to 12 murders are committed every year which are classified as 'honor killings.' ( web.archive.org...://www.bbc.co.uk/ethics/honourcrimes/crimesofhonour_2.shtml ) Which leaves me to wonder why you are condemning just under 2% of all murders committed in your country, and leaving out the 98%?

I do not condone the practice of any murder, regardless of what the excuse for committing it is, but apparently you are less concerned with murder, than with a reason (albeit not a very good one as according to your surveya higher percentage of Christians condone the practice of honor killing than Muslims) to slander Muslims in general.

Perhaps when you have 'put a stop' to 98% of the murders in your country then you can condemn the 2%. It is often quite helpful to remove the log from your eye so that you can see better to remove the splinter from your neighbors eye.