Do you believe there is a supernatural side to the UFO phenomenon?

I would like to state that I do indeed believe the UFO phenomenon is real. By this I mean there are flying disk, triangles, cigars, etc. that do unexplainable things at outrages speed.I believe most true UFOs are very advanced craft from various countries and governments. However, I do believe a very small percent, maybe 1-5%, of true UFOs are the origin of something other than man. I do not know who or what pilots the latter, but most theories fall into one or a combination of several categories.
1. Aliens/ETs.
2. Angels, demons, fallen angels, spirits, ghost, etc.
3. Beings from under Earth's crust or oceans.
4. Beings from the future.
5. The result of mental illness
6. Project Blue Beam.
7. Even more advanced government toys.
8. [Fill in your own here]

Now, assuming your beliefs fall in between numbers 1 and 5, this question is for you. Do you believe there is a supernatural component to the UFO phenomenon?

People who believe 6 and 7 I can already guess your answer, but please respond if have something to offer.

I ask this because many UFO and abduction encounters seem to defy reality. Yes, I know any technology advanced enough would be hard to indistinguishable from magic, but do you really believe there is only a nut and bolt aspect the phenomenon? In my opinion there is as much of a supernatural side to the UFO phenomenon as there is a physical one.

If you do believe the supernatural plays into the UFO phenomenon, why do you?

I vote for #1

In light of some recent reading I am starting to think there is some supernatural correlation, that being of of an inter-dimensional nature. I correlate the idea of inter-dimensional crafts as being supernatural because we still don't have a really sound scientific understanding of our multidimensional universe.

It's quite an interesting thought to think that the ascended masters are making a return and are bringing 'physical' objects to carry them as they shift through dimensions to ours.

yes, I believe 1 in 1000 UFO incidents is demonic in nature. Just a random guess, I would say 999 in 1000 are mis-identifications of conventional objects or experimental craft.

reply to post by davidwaters84


# 8



the objects are seen and given substance by the beholder
the objects or even ETs are conjured into this reality...but are not hallucinations or fantasy...

the closest Analog i can think of is in the movie 'Forbidden Planet'


where the 'Krell' civilization died off some 2,000 centuries ago, yet something transcended their demise, the Krell's collective Id lived on as an normally invisible beast that defended the Krell's homeworld

"Monsters from the id! Monsters from the subconscious."

~: en.wikipedia.org...



the people that witness more than just points of light at a distance are likely receptive to connecting with some psyche force and it just depends on how active is the 'link' between the human observer and the UFO

More individuals have been claiming the Abduction Experience of physical contact with these creatures from the Subconscious/Id

I believe a few of them but not all of them

reply to post by davidwaters84


You should read some of John Keels work, a running theme from his investigations is that there is a definite psychological aspect to the whole phenomenon. Someone or something is playing with our minds in a sort of cosmic game.

Personally I believe a lot of sightings are down to our own advanced technology but I cannot discount the fact that there may indeed be visitations by alien intelligences happening.

Supernatural? It may be. There's nothing to say an alien intelligence would be from another planet in our universe. Such alien intelligence may be reaching out from hither too undiscovered realms? The problem is being borne of this 3 dimentional existence we would find it hard to recognise anything that may come from outside it, which in turn leads to whatever it is being labelled supernatural.

Supernatural by definition is anything beyond our normal frame of existence. Until we learn more, encounters will continue to fall into that category.

reply to post by davidwaters84


In my view #1 , nuts and bolts flown by flesh and blood .
For me the whole Aliens are fallen Angels or Demons is just a symptom of mans egocentric stance towards the world and the Galaxy we inhabit , mixed in with a bit of belief indoctrination brought on by religion .

I ask this because many UFO and abduction encounters seem to defy reality.

That's because most if not all abduction encounters aren't based in reality , they occur in the minds of the alleged abductee , either due to a misinterpreted natural event or for psychological reasons .

For me its an easy fix to say they are all advanced government craft and the evidence would suggest that they aren't , look back to the 40s and 50s and the reports of maneuvers and speeds performed by these things , plus the interest taken by various world governments into the phenomenon tell me they weren't ours .

reply to post by gortex


I agree early reports are quite startling! I always thought the "tech" employed by these "visitors" always seems just out of reach of ourselves. For instance in the 50's the craft would outperform the aircraft of the time by a smaller margin than they do today. It's like as our technology has increased so has theirs.

We had the airship wave before powered flight, granted many of these reports could be put down to sensationalist journalism of the time but as they say there's no smoke without fire.

Early abduction/contactee stories contain reports of dials and switches on board these craft whereas nowadays its all minimalist clinical flat control surfaces for the apple generation.

It's like on experiencing something fantastic the human mind fits the experience into their own frame of reference. With that being the case can we be sure of what were seeing at all?

Apart from the few cases with hard evidence such as radar to back them up we cannot be sure.

Would you agree?

I prefer to define supernatural as something that is completely natural, but ... super.

For instance, the camouflage abilities of octopus and cuttlefish are so supremely sophisticated they are are indeed quite very super, yet, quite very natural.
Just imagine if people had the chromataphores and degree of rapid control that the octopuses and cuttlefish have.

Cheetah are really super fast. Yet, this speed is natural to them.

Don't get me wrong. I understand what you're trying to define 'supernatural' as, however, I think that IF aliens are visiting us in flying saucers or whatever kind of craft, anything and everything about it will be along the lines of the kind of supernatural that I've defined as opposed to something more cartoon magical; something we may not completely understand from a science and engineering standpoint, but not necessarily something all spooky magical that can't be understood by science and engineering.

As Gortex said; nuts and bolts craft with flesh and blood beings.
Sure, they may have exceptional abilities endowed by technological and/or evolutionary advantages that could qualify by your definition of supernatural to the more easily impressed in the audience, but, in the end, if there are such things are aliens zipping about in flying saucers, it's not nutt'n we can't do neither with just the right sort of brains working on the problem to figure it out.

1 and 4 make sense at most. a huge big strike thru 2, it's completely void (imo).
mental illness would be also involved in certain cases but definitely not all.

The story of foo fighters has remained fairly consistent, and make up the bulk of the reliable reports.

I think odds are good that these sightings are plasma life forms that occupy our ecosystem with us, but in the upper atmosphere and nearby space. They simply move too fast for us to catch or detect, so they continue to remain a mystery.

In short...
Yup, I believe so.
However, I think the sides are:
1. Supernatural/paranormal (alleged visitations/abductions)
2. Misidentification (the lights and things in the skies)
3. Mental disorder (covers everything)

I've thought about starting a thread on the topic of defining supernatural/spiritual/interdimensional/paranormal. I think those terms are all simply declarations that the scientific method is useless for whatever we label "supernatural".

I don't understand quantum mechanics, but to me it seems to set the boundaries so that causality (the domain of science) and randomness/freewill (the domain of religion) can live together in harmony. Without quantum mechanics we have a dead clockwork universe.

So everything in the universe has a "supernatural" side including UFOs. But we shouldn't simply label UFOs as "supernatural" and quit using science to study them. They might be really hard to study with science, because they are so unpredictable. But science can tell us something about them.

I believe that there is a supernatural side to the ufo phenom to a certain extent. I believe that most ufos are actually made by the government but i think that they got the technology from earlier crashed ufos like roswell. I believe this because it seems like we have just come so far with technology in such a short period of time. My grandmother whos remembers roswell always talks about how they heard about the roswell crash and not that long afterward they had microwaves. I think that earlier ufos have given us knowledge to build our own stuff.

I believe that there is a NATURAL side to the UFO phenomenon which only a few (members of Secret Societies and the Secret Government?) know about. The rest of us are left unable to explain or understand these phenomena. Therefore, either sightings fail to produce sufficient positive evidence, and this despite the vastness of eyewitness testimony, or they otherwise include events which cannot be explained with what we already know. For this reason those who are abducted or have a close encounter are considered at best unreliable, and at worst nut jobs...


It is about time that those who have the answers to what is really going on come out and give it up! We're entitled to be fully informed of who is doing this and what it is all about.


GS

My views shifts from Extraterrestrial to inter-dimensional all the time. It might be a combination of both. Besides, any entity that is inter-dimensional is going to be alien in our view. This phenomenon has been being recorded for far too long for their not to be some likely inter-connection between what we use to call fairy or demon. And the biggest problems people have with this is not the sentiment that we have simply renamed a cultural phenomenon, but that people can't get past the religious component involved. Bias, is the name of the game. Particularly in this phenomenon. Perhaps, we just assigned this very old phenomenon with a new name. Most cases of abduction have a supernatural component to it. Strange noises that cannot be explained, things moving of their own accord, and this is just to mention a few.

I'm not against the idea of intelligent life that compares to our own existing in our oceans. However, if they were in our crust - I'd think we'd have found some evidence of it. After all, we have been digging into it now quite regularly for the past century.

Mental illness is a component that applies to nearly everyone. We are a mad species - there is no getting around that. Most just don't see it because they have been conditioned to accept the world around them as it is. It's okay to watch unending violence on TV and wonder why kids take guns to school and see increased crime. It's okay to advertise sex and then we wonder why our teens are anorexic or bulimic. As long as it makes a buck, it's okay to follow the road to moral depravity. So - to say that these people who claim abduction by "aliens" is a mental illness is nothing. It's a much more harmless mental illness than other forms that plague humanity today. Addiction is a huge mental illness and I don't know a single person who isn't. Whether that be sugar, nicotine, caffeine, shopping for things you want but don't need, watching endless amounts of TV, or illicit drugs. What it all boils down to is mental illness. Sooo....

As to it being mis-identification, I think that this can apply to many UFO sightings but not all. As to it being a natural phenomenon not yet identified - very possible.

It all boils down to the fact that I don't know the answer. Period. And I'm not going to play a game with myself or other people pretending otherwise. But the topic interests me...so here I am.

Originally posted by CirqueDeTruth


Mental illness is a component that applies to nearly everyone. We are a mad species - there is no getting around that. Most just don't see it because they have been conditioned to accept the world around them as it is. It's okay to watch unending violence on TV and wonder why kids take guns to school and see increased crime. It's okay to advertise sex and then we wonder why our teens are anorexic or bulimic. As long as it makes a buck, it's okay to follow the road to moral depravity. So - to say that these people who claim abduction by "aliens" is a mental illness is nothing. It's a much more harmless mental illness than other forms that plague humanity today. Addiction is a huge mental illness and I don't know a single person who isn't. Whether that be sugar, nicotine, caffeine, shopping for things you want but don't need, watching endless amounts of TV, or illicit drugs. What it all boils down to is mental illness. Sooo....

that is not the mental illness I bring up. there is real mental illness that affects one's perception on the world around them. mental illness that makes people think they are being visited by beings and being abduced or hear voices that dont exist or see things around them - none of exist in reality but in their soley in their head.

then the are those who seek attention so badly, they just make things up.....create a cool story and garner a bunch of attention and it fullfills whatever it is they are missing deep inside of themselves. Internet has made this an easy platform for people like this.....


both are far different than an addiction to caffeine or watching TV....

Originally posted by poet1b

The story of foo fighters has remained fairly consistent, and make up the bulk of the reliable reports.

I think odds are good that these sightings are plasma life forms that occupy our ecosystem with us, but in the upper atmosphere and nearby space. They simply move too fast for us to catch or detect, so they continue to remain a mystery.

They do exist but they are more than just simple life forms, they are connected with radiant white motherships. Also they have organisational qualities and have a laser beam facility, notably the red type.

Originally posted by greeneyedleo

Originally posted by CirqueDeTruth


Mental illness is a component that applies to nearly everyone. We are a mad species - there is no getting around that. Most just don't see it because they have been conditioned to accept the world around them as it is. It's okay to watch unending violence on TV and wonder why kids take guns to school and see increased crime. It's okay to advertise sex and then we wonder why our teens are anorexic or bulimic. As long as it makes a buck, it's okay to follow the road to moral depravity. So - to say that these people who claim abduction by "aliens" is a mental illness is nothing. It's a much more harmless mental illness than other forms that plague humanity today. Addiction is a huge mental illness and I don't know a single person who isn't. Whether that be sugar, nicotine, caffeine, shopping for things you want but don't need, watching endless amounts of TV, or illicit drugs. What it all boils down to is mental illness. Sooo....

that is not the mental illness I bring up. there is real mental illness that affects one's perception on the world around them. mental illness that makes people think they are being visited by beings and being abduced or hear voices that dont exist or see things around them - none of exist in reality but in their soley in their head.

then the are those who seek attention so badly, they just make things up.....create a cool story and garner a bunch of attention and it fullfills whatever it is they are missing deep inside of themselves. Internet has made this an easy platform for people like this.....


both are far different than an addiction to caffeine or watching TV....

I think there is a spectrum between sane and insane and people drift back and forth between those two extremes. I suspect some people like myself might drift into delusion now and then due to stress or nutrition or something. I had a period of several weeks a couple of years ago that could be explained as schizophrenic delusions, but I'm not schizophrenic.

So I think everybody is capable of experiencing delusions - even "sane" people. For that reason we should simply rule-out all UFO reports that have no physical evidence and only a single witness. No doubt we would be throwing away some real UFO reports, but it's the only way to eliminate the garbage data created by these psychological delusions.

reply to post by davidwaters84
I think that something extraordinary goes hand-in-hand with the human experience of living. What it is is anyone's guess and the solutions aren't likely to come about in our lifetimes...if history is anything to go by.

At heart, I'm committed to the idea that science has the capability to provide the explanations for much that we see as magical, phenomenal or 'supernatural.'

Originally posted by davidwaters84
I would like to state that I do indeed believe the UFO phenomenon is real. By this I mean there are flying disk, triangles, cigars, etc. that do unexplainable things at outrages speed.I believe most true UFOs are very advanced craft from various countries and governments. However, I do believe a very small percent, maybe 1-5%, of true UFOs are the origin of something other than man. I do not know who or what pilots the latter, but most theories fall into one or a combination of several categories.
1. Aliens/ETs.
2. Angels, demons, fallen angels, spirits, ghost, etc.
3. Beings from under Earth's crust or oceans.
4. Beings from the future.
5. The result of mental illness
6. Project Blue Beam.
7. Even more advanced government toys.
8. [Fill in your own here]

Now, assuming your beliefs fall in between numbers 1 and 5, this question is for you. Do you believe there is a supernatural component to the UFO phenomenon?

People who believe 6 and 7 I can already guess your answer, but please respond if have something to offer.

I ask this because many UFO and abduction encounters seem to defy reality. Yes, I know any technology advanced enough would be hard to indistinguishable from magic, but do you really believe there is only a nut and bolt aspect the phenomenon? In my opinion there is as much of a supernatural side to the UFO phenomenon as there is a physical one.

If you do believe the supernatural plays into the UFO phenomenon, why do you?

The ATS thread listing policies are so broad that one can post silly stuff and still attract an audience and be protected from blasphemous responses as I'd like mine to be! It seems so difficult to find well-thought out and well-constructed arguments re: UFOs and aliens, pro and con. This thread's contents falls into the not well thought out.

It's only normal to believe in or accept UFOs as real, anomalous phenomena with no concrete explanations as to what they are and where they originate. But to mix these real objects with:
2. Angels, demons, fallen angels, spirits, ghost, etc.
3. Beings from under Earth's crust or oceans.
4. Beings from the future.
5. The result of mental illness
6. Project Blue Beam.
7. Even more advanced government toys.
8. [Fill in your own here]

is just downright ridiculous. There is no room to discuss as only the mentally-challenged will even consider answering.

There isn't a "supernatural side to the UFO phenomenon", UFOs are supernatural, period. Consider the definition of "supernatural":

su·per·nat·u·ral /ˌAdjective: (of a manifestation or event) Attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.

So for you to create a possible list of explanations fail by its own exclusiveness. Nobody knows what UFOs are. No one can even guess as there is not one iota of information to use as a guide. Additionally, to use "alien abductions" as any kind of reference also fails for there is no evidence for it, all you have are tales.

Silliness abounds on this forum.