Reality Is An illusion Taking Place Inside Our Brains And Nowhere Else

Awareness is like the sky.
Mind/thought is like clouds.
The sky is permanent .
The clouds come and go.
The cloud will never work out the truth.
The sky does not mind.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
'Now' is where you are, always. Everything happens in you and you are aware of all happenings.

There is no evidence of this, other than personal opinion.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
Humans are obsessed with brains. The brain is the noise you are aware of 'inside' you, you can be aware of the thinking mind. You are here (sorry if the word here offends you) before the mind speaks and judges and measures. You (as awareness) are proir to all thought, thought appears to you.

Obsession
(Construct of a brain)

Noise
(Concept/opinion made by your brain)

Thinking
(Contstruct of a brain)

Here
(Concept in a brain)

Offence
(Construct of a brain)

Speaking
(Output of a brain)

Judging
(Output of a brain)

"You"
(Construct of a brain)

"prior/after"
(Concepts of a brain)

You try to discount me by using an argument constructed of 100% grey matter. Just sayin'

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
The brain might well process you if you believe that is what you are, you will be the conditioned person. A personality made and shaped by society. You will have buttons that can be pressed that will always produce the same action time and time again
I, on the other hand, am the master of the mind.

Does that include subtle insults? Like me being "programmed by society"?

I would think a master mind would be more kind...Especially to us lowly ignorant types...

Speaking of buttons, you know pushing buttons is an action of the brain too? In fact, the button itself resides in a brain!

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
I do not let it be the boss of me. I am aware of the mind and the games it plays. The mind is given way too much trust and it knows it is confused.

Hmm, you seem pretty sure for being confused....

reply to post by adigregorio


Can you say that you are not? Can you negate your being? Are you aware that you are? There is never an instance that when you ask the question you can say 'I am not'.
Prior to and during and after any thought or sight or sound (any appearance) you are present. The word 'present' in language is sometimes called 'now'. Now and you are inseparable. Try to peel yourself away from now. All the 'things' you have named, obbsession, noise, speaking, sights, are ALL appearances that could not appear unless awareness is present. There are trillions and trillions of 'things' to be aware of but without awareness nothing would ever be known.
I am not confused. I am aware of the conditioned mind.

Just to further the point I am trying to stress about "awareness" and the "you".

In philosophy, the brain in a vat is an element used in a variety of thought experiments intended to draw out certain features of our ideas of knowledge, reality, truth, mind, and meaning. It is drawn from the idea, common to many science fiction stories, that a mad scientist, machine or other entity might remove a person's brain from the body, suspend it in a vat of life-sustaining liquid, and connect its neurons by wires to a supercomputer which would provide it with electrical impulses identical to those the brain normally receives. According to such stories, the computer would then be simulating reality (including appropriate responses to the brain's own output) and the person with the "disembodied" brain would continue to have perfectly normal conscious experiences without these being related to objects or events in the real world.

The simplest use of brain-in-a-vat scenarios is as an argument for philosophical skepticism and solipsism. A simple version of this runs as follows: Since the brain in a vat gives and receives exactly the same impulses as it would if it were in a skull, and since these are its only way of interacting with its environment, then it is not possible to tell, from the perspective of that brain, whether it is in a skull or a vat. Yet in the first case most of the person's beliefs may be true (if he believes, say, that he is walking down the street, or eating ice-cream); in the latter case they are false. Since the argument says one cannot know whether he or she is a brain in a vat, then he or she cannot know whether most of his or her beliefs might be completely false. Since, in principle, it is impossible to rule out oneself being a brain in a vat, there cannot be good grounds for believing any of the things one believes; a skeptical argument would contend that one certainly cannot know them, raising issues with the definition of knowledge.

The brain in a vat is a contemporary version of the argument given in Hindu Maya illusion, Plato's Allegory of the Cave, Zhuangzi's "Zhuangzi dreamed he was a butterfly", and the evil demon in René Descartes' Meditations on First Philosophy.

en.wikipedia.org...

As one can plainly see, this concept is nothing new. There is NO WAY to know if where/what we are exists. Because the only things that can answer those questions, MAY NOT exist. If the brain is lying to me, then what I experience is a lie (fake, not real, doesn't exist)

I saw a movie (finally) last night that fits why people can't grasp this concept. "The Invention of Lying" If you are familar with the movie. I am referencing the bar scene, where he tries to explain lying to his friends.

EDIT (AHA! Found it!)

reply to post by adigregorio


The experience that you are experiencing is what is being experienced. So the brain in a vat experiences, let's say, walking down a street - it is seeing the street, it feels the pavement beneath, it feels alive. It is just like you laying still in a bed asleep but having a completely full dream. The dream is real because it is appearing in your awareness. The person asleep in bed in not your reality is it? If you are looking at the brain in a vat or someone asleep in bed you experience that as your reality.
Believing that you know something outside of your awareness is mind stuff and not true.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


My WHOLE point is that there is NO WAY to know whether or not this is a real place.

I choose to say it is un-real. Just because, to me, everything "fits" if this isn't really happening.

I tend to look at "reality" as a television series. We are all characters, and we have no idea who our actors are.

Batman is not really Bruce Wayne, he is Michael Keaton, or Adam West, or (Ug) George Clooney. We know this, the actors know this. But Batman, the one on your TV the one saving the day, he could NEVER comprehend who we or they are.

His reality is not real either. You can not visit "Gotham City", just as our actors could not visit the United States. Or the Milky Way...

Lastly, and I can not stress this enough, we can NEVER know ANYTHING about our actors. (Souls) Because IF they are real, they can NOT be here. Because IF they are real, then this IS FAKE.

(Caps for emphasis, not yelling. Bold isn't enough round these boards, just because I can barely tell something is bold...)

Read those things I posted, they will have rebuttles to all of your points. And they will rebutt (heh) better than I ever could, because you would be getting straight from the horses mouth.

Like I said, I can not explain this to folks. Either it is un-explainable, or I do not have the required tools to explain it. Either way, it is un-explainable by me. I suppose there is a third reason, but I don't want to be rude...

I only mention the third, in case someone else wanted to be rude later.

reply to post by adigregorio


My point is that there is only 'one' thing that you can 'know' is real.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


As I thought, we have really nothing further to discuss.

I do not believe there is some "greater being" than me. (Not that I am great, just that nothing is better or worse than anything else.)

I do find it sad that the discussion (yet again) has to end because of a god...Easy way out I suppose, I mean "Wait till a god shows up, then you'll know."

Of course I would, the whole point is to figure it out before then. (If "it" can ever be figured out...)

reply to post by Itisnowagain
Unfortunately theres a very real and very distinct possibility that my brain is literally and actually floating suspended within the unearthly liquid of some otherworldly container created inside a super intelligent aliens experimental laboratory within another dimension as five wires connected to my brains five corresponding sensory locations send pre-arranged signals and pre-determined waves of information into that my brain interprets and preceives as this reality...

Originally posted by adigregorio
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

As I thought, we have really nothing further to discuss.

I do not believe there is some "greater being" than me. (Not that I am great, just that nothing is better or worse than anything else.)

I do find it sad that the discussion (yet again) has to end because of a god...Easy way out I suppose, I mean "Wait till a god shows up, then you'll know."

Of course I would, the whole point is to figure it out before then. (If "it" can ever be figured out...)

I have editted my post but i did not use the word god anyway. The mind assumes so much, it adds and subtracts form what it actually appearing. The mind wants a way out.

There is nothing greater than you. It is all you.

Originally posted by blocula
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

Unfortunately theres a very real and very distinct possibility that my brain is literally and actually floating suspended within the unearthly liquid of some otherworldly container created inside a super intelligent aliens experimental laboratory within another dimension as five wires connected to my brains five corresponding sensory locations send signals and waves of information that my brain interprets as my reality...

And so what? Does that stop you seeing and hearing? Can you not enjoy whatever it is that is taking place as your experience?

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by blocula
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

Unfortunately theres a very real and very distinct possibility that my brain is literally and actually floating suspended within the unearthly liquid of some otherworldly container created inside a super intelligent aliens experimental laboratory within another dimension as five wires connected to my brains five corresponding sensory locations send signals and waves of information that my brain interprets as my reality...

And so what? Does that stop you seeing and hearing? Can you not enjoy whatever it is that is taking place as your experience?

Just because it is not real, doesn't mean I can't enjoy it.

As for removing god, it's too late. I understand where you are coming from, and there is no way I can have a reasonable discussion about this topic. If there is a god, then well everything I say doesn't matter. If you believe there is a god, then me continuing speaking is futile.

Or puppet-master, as you put it. I use god (no capitolization) as a non-denominational god.

Like I said, there is no way to prove either side of the discussion. Or god(s) for that matter. I just choose to assume that this is not really happening, that I am someones entertainment. Someone tunes into channel 8927616834 to watch what I do. (I just hope I have a good actor, I mean what if you are a hack?!?!)

reply to post by adigregorio


When i said 'puppet master' i was referring to your bit about actors playing roles. Who is it that is driving or acting you? I did not mention God.

reply to post by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by adigregorio
Batman is not really Bruce Wayne, he is Michael Keaton, or Adam West, or (Ug) George Clooney. We know this, the actors know this. But Batman, the one on your TV the one saving the day, he could NEVER comprehend who we or they are.

His reality is not real either. You can not visit "Gotham City", just as our actors could not visit the United States. Or the Milky Way...

Lastly, and I can not stress this enough, we can NEVER know ANYTHING about our actors. (Souls) Because IF they are real, they can NOT be here. Because IF they are real, then this IS FAKE.

We will never be able to know, due to the limits of this non-reality. Just as Bruce Wayne/Batman will never know you are watching him.

reply to post by adigregorio


You are the one thing that you can be sure of. You are and you know you are!! You are real, you are reality.
Where ever you are, this is.
This being what is. There is nothing outside of this.

But it is not enough for the mind because the mind manufactures, it builds something out of this nothing. The something has no reality because it is built out of nothing. It is built out of thought.
The appearance that is appearing presently is passing but it is known.
Knowing is all there is.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


And we're back to square one.

If the only thing that says I exist is me, how can I be certain.

(It's okay, this is how it worked out in the other thread too. Ran around a big circle, only to end up back to questioning if my brain is "real" or not.)

Since I have established already that the brain is "you". Or at least "your" conduit to "here", and if "here" isn't real neither is the "conduit" or "you". Because all of those exist here, where it is not "real". And real things can't be both real and fake.

Either something is, or it isn't. (Let's stay in the macro world please?)

reply to post by Itisnowagain
My main point about this fabricated existence projected into our brains that unknowingly perceive as our true reality has not been enjoyed by most people in the past,is not being enjoyed by most people now and will not be enjoyed by most people in the future,because the creators of this sinister holographic lie are evil and they have literally trapped all our souls within this seemingly materialistic illusion and some of us refer to them as demons and some of us refer to them as watchers and some of us refer to them as fallen angels and some of us refer to them as satan and some of us refer to them as lucifer and some of us refer to them as aliens and they are all the same super intelligent diabolical force that has hijacked the earth that was once our garden of eden and they have enslaved humanity inside prisons of temporary flesh within a world thats been intentionally transformed into a hell thats continuously ripped apart by war and perpetually torn asunder by genocide...

reply to post by blocula


Lol, and again the thread is nothing like what I imagined...

See what I mean about the brain being a liar?!

PS: This sounds like Scientology, just sayin'

PPS: Ignore what I was saying, none of it is on topic apparently.

reply to post by adigregorio


You have come to the assumption that you are the brain. I have enquired deeply into myself and have discovered that i am not my brain. The fact that the word 'my' brain is used here shows that it belongs to me, it is mine. The brain or mind is a tool for me to use once i realize that i am not the mind. Unless i realize this the mind will use me and i would be lost, fearful and confused. Life would be hard and i would believe that one day i can escape this dreadful place.
The mind is scared and confused. If you let it run your life you will not be happy and joyful, you will be dreadful.

Can you say you are not? If you can't then you know that you are, what more proof do you need?

I am is the truth, the way and the life.

(My last response on this thread)

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by adigregorio

 

You have come to the assumption that you are the brain. I have enquired deeply into myself and have discovered that i am not my brain.

Brain in a Vat, I have posted it twice now.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
The fact that the word 'my' brain is used here shows that it belongs to me, it is mine.

The brain created the word and concept my.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
The brain or mind is a tool for me to use once i realize that i am not the mind. Unless i realize this the mind will use me and i would be lost, fearful and confused.

Well I am neither fearful, nor confused. So you are incorrect. Why do you keep hinting that I am less than or have "issues" because I don't believe what you believe?

Why am I fearful and confused? My beliefs don't require me to belittile others ideas, especially since nither belief can be proven...

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
Life would be hard and i would believe that one day i can escape this dreadful place.

AHA! That is because YOU are fearful, please do not project to me. This "place" is no more or less dreadful than it was before I had these beliefs. Remember, fear and dread, well those are constructs of the brain. (So maybe you are a little more brainy than you thought....heh thought (function of the brain...))

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
The mind is scared and confused. If you let it run your life you will not be happy and joyful, you will be dreadful.

Pretty matter of factual, for a philosophical discussion.

You know nothing of me, because you are not me. I am not me either, but that is beside the point. Again, please quit projecting your emotions onto me. YOU would be dreadful, YOU would be unhappy. I am none of those things, so you are speaking falsly.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
Can you say you are not? If you can't then you know that you are, what more proof do you need?

"I am not"

Can you say it? Can you comprehend it?

I can, sort of. So could many many philosphers before me. Maybe you should read up on them, Descartes, Aristotle, Socrates. Of course, the run-around won't work on their arguments...