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Exclusive! First hand Witness: Trayvon Martin attacked Zimmerman Zimmerman Innocent Smoking Gun

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posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 11:43 AM
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Originally posted by wagnificent
Racism aside, the fact of the matter is that Zimmerman should have been arrested for this. Why?

Cops arrest based on probable cause, not iron-clad "beyond a reasonable doubt." That means there only needs to be a reason to believe that a crime has been committed.

Fact: Treyvon Martin is dead. The cops found the dead body.
Fact: Zimmerman is the one who killed him. Zimmerman himself admitted this to police.
Fact: Zimmerman was the pursuer of Treyvon Martin. The 911 tapes clearly show this.

Thus the cops had (and still have) all of the following:
a person who was killed
the weapon used to kill that person
the perpetrator who used that weapon in the killing
911 tapes that prove that the killer initiated the contact that resulted in the other person's death

Fact: It is the cops' duty to arrest suspects in a crime
Fact: It is possible to be arrested an not charged with a crime
Fact: It is the state prosecutor's duty to decide whether to prosecute based on the evidence, not the cops.
Fact: There was plenty of reason for the cops to arrest Zimmerman. He had motive, opportunity and means.

Question: "Why was Zimmerman not arrested?"

Fact: Zimmerman's prior record prevents him from being a "real" cop, but he is a cop wanna-be and had prior connections to the police department.
Fact: Stand your ground law requires that you be literally standing your ground, not in pursuit
Fact: Armed pursuit of another citizen is tantamount to vigilante justice, which is not protected by the law. This is why Best Buy security cannot chase you into the parking lot if you steal a CD, even if they have video of the crime. They are required to notify police.

Speculation: Whether Zimmerman is guilty of murder or not is beside the point. The question is why he was not even arrested when the evidence and circumstances would have made it a no-brainer to at least bring him downtown for questioning. Maybe this case is much less about race and much more about the "good old boys' network." Maybe it's about due process in the justice system. Maybe it's about the overt corruption in law enforcement. Maybe the reason this has become a race issue is because young black males just happen to be the demographic most likely to be affected by police corruption. Maybe if we start tracing back the racist tendencies of police practices, it will provide a glimpse into the rampant generalized corruption in law enforcement. Maybe this case is not about Zimmerman but about institutionalized corruption.


big post and a lot of words but there were witnesses THERE Police were THERE to take statements, and Zimmerman still hasn't been arrested...Important Question to you, were you THERE




posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 11:47 AM
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Originally posted by wagnificent
Racism aside, the fact of the matter is that Zimmerman should have been arrested for this. Why?
Maybe it's about due process in the justice system. Maybe it's about the overt corruption in law enforcement. Maybe the reason this has become a race issue is because young black males just happen to be the demographic most likely to be affected by police corruption


I think the reason, no conspiracy here though
is because they infact have an eye witness
that saw what happen. The fact that if
you are attacked by someone you have every right
to defend yourself. The fact that the 911 screams for
help are that of zimmerman and not treyvon.. That matches
up with the eyewitness testimony.

Oh and for a racism aside posts,
* the overt corruption in law enforcement. Maybe the reason this has become a race issue is because young black males just happen to be the demographic most likely to be affected by police corruption*

Sounds pretty race baiting to me..

Again lets stop this Hang whitey rhetoric, zimmerman
has not been charged or convicted of a crime so the off with
his head off with his head crap is really getting out of hand..

No good old boy conspiracy, zimmerman is not even fully white he is mixed
the cops don't need to arrest you if you did no wrong.
If zimmerman acted in self defense why should he be dragged through
the system so you people can get your hang whitey fix rocks off.



posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 11:52 AM
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reply to post by Cavalier
 


My wife is the president of our neighborhood watch. Officers at each meeting and in her training class stressed "never pursue". In fact neighborhood watch is just that. Watch. What the dispatch person told him is standard. And, the reason that advice is given is to prevent altercations that can end exactly like this one did.
No one has "authority" unless it is given to them. But, anyone that has neighborhood watch training knows not to pursue. It set up this way to protect the "watcher".

I heard his 911 call. The thing that bothers me is him stating, apparently while running, "They always get away." Then there were two *beeps* as if they filtered out 2 cuss words. On a talk radio station in Knoxville, TN I heard the sound guy tell the host what he said under those beeps. I do not know for certain if it is factual but, it was supposedly, "#ing 'n-word'" If THAT is true then the assumption of racism would be confirmed and this case would take a new turn.

The radio show was the "Haloran Hilton Hill" morning show.
edit on Sun Mar 25 2012 by DontTreadOnMe because: Mod Note: Do Not Evade the Automatic Censors – Please Review This Link.



posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 12:04 PM
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Originally posted by rebellender
big post and a lot of words but there were witnesses THERE Police were THERE to take statements, and Zimmerman still hasn't been arrested...Important Question to you, were you THERE


Eye witness testimony is the absolute bottom of the barrel evidence. Not only that, but at the time of the crime that eye witness wanted to remain anonymous, which further undermines credibility. I don't need to be there to do this basic detective work. By your line of reasoning anyone with someone willing to lie for them will be beyond reproach.

Also you have completely failed to understand the difference between probable cause for an arrest and evidence that proves guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. These are two completely different levels criterion. Plain and simple Zimmerman should have been arrested and probably released after questioning, but this did not happen. I am not saying he is guilty; I am saying the police failed to live up to their responsibility, which I think is what the uproar is about, not racism.



posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 12:06 PM
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Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by Spiramirabilis
 


It's weird that OP keeps saying hang whitey. I assume that is an attempt to troll. OP has never acknowledged, i don't think, that this man is the same amount of white as Obama. Zimmerman is half Peruvian.


I'm guessing the OP feels persecuted - and in some way exonerating Zimmerman must be symbolic



posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 12:11 PM
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Originally posted by wagnificent
Also you have completely failed to understand the difference between probable cause for an arrest and evidence that proves guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. These are two completely different levels criterion.. Eye witness testimony is the absolute bottom of the barrel evidence


Bottom of the barrel evidence>>>??
Key eye witness testimony is the only
testimony allowed in court. everything else is conjecture and hearsay
If you knew what you were talking about
and quit believing all the BS you would know
it is zimmerman who is screaming on the tape
for help while treyvon was beating his face in..

His statements to police were instrumental, because police backed up Zimmerman's claims, saying those screams on the 911 call are those of Zimmerman.
A witness we haven't heard from before paints a much different picture than we've seen so far of what happened the night 17-year-old Trayvon Martin was shot and killed.


WAS YOU THERE? NO

This eye witness was and that is not hearsay
what you are believing is what the MSM is feeding you
racially charged bs about a white on black crime..

get your facts straight, then
prove to me that zimmerman did not act in self defense..
edit on 25-3-2012 by popsmayhem because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 12:14 PM
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Originally posted by Sagittarian69
reply to post by Cavalier
 


My wife is the president of our neighborhood watch. Officers at each meeting and in her training class stressed "never pursue". In fact neighborhood watch is just that. Watch. What the dispatch person told him is standard. And, the reason that advice is given is to prevent altercations that can end exactly like this one did.
No one has "authority" unless it is given to them. But, anyone that has neighborhood watch training knows not to pursue. It set up this way to protect the "watcher".

I heard his 911 call. The thing that bothers me is him stating, apparently while running, "They always get away." Then there were two *beeps* as if they filtered out 2 cuss words. On a talk radio station in Knoxville, TN I heard the sound guy tell the host what he said under those beeps. I do not know for certain if it is factual but, it was supposedly, "#ing 'n-word'" If THAT is true then the assumption of racism would be confirmed and this case would take a new turn.

The radio show was the "Haloran Hilton Hill" morning show.
edit on Sun Mar 25 2012 by DontTreadOnMe because: Mod Note: Do Not Evade the Automatic Censors – Please Review This Link.


Not all neighborhood watches are the same. So with that said, your whole first paragraph is moot.

"They always get away.", is very ambigous. If you think he is reffering to black people, then that is what will be in your mind. But, most likely it is your feelings/paranoia getting in the way. "They" meaning burglars. According to neighbors, there had been recent break ins that Zimmerman had helped stop.

You mean "#ing coon" is what the tapes say. They dont say the "n word" or coon. What he actually says is "Freaking Cold". Both men had on sweatshirts.
edit on Sun Mar 25 2012 by DontTreadOnMe because: Mod Note: Do Not Evade the Automatic Censors – Please Review This Link.



posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 12:42 PM
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Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by antonia
 



People on ATS are more hung up on the race issue than most of the people I've seen talking about this in the general public.


I agree! But you have to ask yourself, “Why does race matter in this case?”

Thanks Mr. President!! Thanks Jessie Jackson!! Thanks Black Panthers!!

What about the “Wanted Dead or Alive” poster created about Zimmerman by the panthers? Is that a racist thing to do?




If the tables were turned (Martin killed Zimmerman) and the Klan had a wanted poster with Martin’s picture do you think Jackson and the POTUS would condemn it?
You KNOW they would!
edit on 25-3-2012 by seabag because: (no reason given)



Thank you for posting this, I was going to same something too, why isn't anything being done about the bounty on his head from the panthers, wtf!, I think zimmerman is guilty as well, I will stand my ground that he should not of got out of his car, he should of never chased this kid. on that note where is the outcry about the panthers doing this, honestly this is starting a race war.



posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 12:58 PM
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Originally posted by popsmayhem

Originally posted by wagnificent
Also you have completely failed to understand the difference between probable cause for an arrest and evidence that proves guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. These are two completely different levels criterion.. Eye witness testimony is the absolute bottom of the barrel evidence


Bottom of the barrel evidence>>>??
Key eye witness testimony is the only
testimony allowed in court. everything else is conjecture and hearsay
If you knew what you were talking about
and quit believing all the BS you would know
it is zimmerman who is screaming on the tape
for help while treyvon was beating his face in..

His statements to police were instrumental, because police backed up Zimmerman's claims, saying those screams on the 911 call are those of Zimmerman.
A witness we haven't heard from before paints a much different picture than we've seen so far of what happened the night 17-year-old Trayvon Martin was shot and killed.


WAS YOU THERE? NO

This eye witness was and that is not hearsay
what you are believing is what the MSM is feeding you
racially charged bs about a white on black crime..

get your facts straight, then
prove to me that zimmerman did not act in self defense..
edit on 25-3-2012 by popsmayhem because: (no reason given)


Let me break this down Barney style, since you don't seem to understand my argument.

I am saying that the police should have arrested him because there is no question that he killed another person. In any case where a person is killed, there should be an investigation. Zimmerman's 911 call proves that he was chasing Treyvon, not the other way around. This means Zimmerman escalated the situation at least once.

If you contest that point, please tell me by what mental gymnastics you can say that chasing is an act of self-defense.

If Zimmerman did catch up to Treyvon, and Treyvon started "beating his face in," then Trevyon was acting in self-defense, not Zimmerman. Maybe you are right and he cried for help around this time, but that does not change the fact that he initiated the conflict, not Treyvon. You can't pick a fight and then complain that you got your ass kicked.

Then Zimmerman got out his concealed weapon, thereby escalating the situation a second time to the point of armed conflict. They eyewitness allegedly saw the scuffle, in the middle of the night. Maybe he eats a lot of carrots and has perfect night vision that allowed him to see exactly what happened clearly. He also claimed to have run inside his apartment and only heard the gunshot, not the culmination of the conflict.

Treyvon was found dead in the street, unarmed. Even if Treyvon was stomping Zimmerman's ass into the grass, leaving the back of Zimmerman's shirt with grass stains, how did Treyvon's body get into the street?

The self-defense argument is undermined on many levels, and the eyewitness testimony proves only that Zimmerman got his ass kicked after the contact was initiated. The "Treyvon was murdered" argument has plenty of concrete evidence, including a recorded 911 call that clearly proves Zimmerman was in pursuit of Treyvon and Zimmerman's own admission of having killed Treyvon.

I would think that police doing an honest investigation would want to corroborate the story downtown and check it against the evidence, but instead they took Zimmerman's word for it and pretended like they needed to have an open and shut case in order to make an arrest, which is total bull#.

Here's a thought -- if I murder someone in the street outside of my house in the middle of the night and claim it was self-defense, would my neighbor's testimony make it true? Would the cops automatically assume that that must have been what happened? I doubt it. There would be an investigation, and I would have to answer some questions downtown while forensics did their job. That is unless I am friends with the ranking officers of the police department.



posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 12:59 PM
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Originally posted by popsmayhem

"When I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point," John said.on the Sanford city website, Zimmerman said he was going back to his SUV when he was attacked by the teen.

His statements to police were instrumental, because police backed up Zimmerman's claims, saying those screams on the 911 call are those of Zimmerman.
A witness we haven't heard from before paints a much different picture than we've seen so far of what happened the night 17-year-old Trayvon Martin was shot and killed.

The night of that shooting, police say there was a witness who saw it all.

Sanford police say Zimmerman was bloody in his face and head, and the back of his shirt was wet and had grass stains, indicating a struggle took place before the shooting.

NEW WITNESS ZIMMERMAN WAS ATTACKED BY TREYVON

ITS all coming out zimmerman
is the one screaming on the tape
there is a witness WHO WAS SAW IT!!
THEY WATCHED IT..

YOU HAVE ALL BEEN LIED TOO!!
it is all coming out.
trust me if they could they
would
of arrested him already
they cant cuzz zimmerman
is
innocent


ZIMMERMAN IS INNOCENT DO
NOT BELIEVE THE LIES!!
All the bs the MSM is spewing
is insane people buy right on into
the whole damn race war the
msm is selling you..
JUSTICE FOR ZIMMERMAN
A FREE MAN!!



edit on 23-3-2012 by popsmayhem because: (no reason given)

edit on 3/24/2012 by tothetenthpower because: --Mod Edit--All Caps


Yes, I read the thread, and it links to one article that has one witness who is anonymous....

hmmmm....I would definitely call that hearsay...

Now have you heard the 911 tapes (Iknow you have)

Does that frantic yelling for help sound like a grown adult man, or a scared young boy??

Ok, if you don't follow that how about this, If Zimmerman, again who is HISPANIC NOT WHITE, was screaming for help on the tape, why do the pleas for help immediately stop after the shot? He no longer required help from someone from that terrible beating he was supposedly getting??

YOU are the one charging racial tension here, and compounding it with your fabrication that Zimmerman is WHITE.....HE IS NOT STOP LYING...

The MSM is using this for god knows what purpose, but to me it seems like the most vocal people out here are the unabashed racists claiming this is a story about a white man shooting a black guy.....AGAIN HE WAS NOT...

You cannot convince me an adult man shooting an unarmed boy is justified....

We had a cop here in Florida who shot an unarmed boy, Tyler Spanning, right in my hometown a few years back.

The cops answer to why he shot this boy was that he lunged at the officer grabbing for his gun (just not true if you knew Tyler) and the officer felt his life was in danger...the blowback from the community was massive, but in the end the cop got paid leave, the young boy remained dead, and everyone forgot....

This is another case of an authority figure overstepping his grounds, and committing an unjustified murder...

You seem to ignore the facts of what occured here just to keep saying ITS BLACK AND WHITE, ITS BLACK AND WHITE.....

HE IS HISPANIC NOT WHITE.....WHY would you be interested in wisting so many facts about this case man?

I just do not get it?



posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 01:41 PM
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Originally posted by timetothink
reply to post by LErickson
 


He was NOT just walking down any street...he was on PRIVATE PROPERTY and Zimmerman as a part owner of that privat property had a right to ask what he was doing there, no matter what the 911 civilian dispatcher said.

Martin did NOT have the right to punch the guy for asking a question...unless said guy punched him first.


PRIVATE PROPERTY that looked exactly like his dad's neighborhood BTW...

He has a right to ask a question, but how do we know Mr. power trip didn't try to detain him and the kid was just trying to defend himself. Once Zimmer tried to put a hand on the kid, the kid had a right to defend himself. Zimmer was too much of a wimp to back up his mouth and used a gun to settle his argument...

He is no watchdog... the guy is a murder...

No different than these "thugs", that people seem to stereotype this kid as...
edit on 25-3-2012 by SmArTbEaTz because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 01:41 PM
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Originally posted by wagnificent

Originally posted by rebellender
big post and a lot of words but there were witnesses THERE Police were THERE to take statements, and Zimmerman still hasn't been arrested...Important Question to you, were you THERE


Eye witness testimony is the absolute bottom of the barrel evidence.
.

Really...are you sure about that.
or are you confused with visual identity of suspect in a line up?



Also you have completely failed to understand the difference between probable cause for an arrest and evidence that proves guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. .


Zimmerman was not taken into custody. No probable Cause . STILL

I fail to see where you have a logical point with my position, have a nice day



posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 02:10 PM
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reply to post by Cavalier
 


I live in Florida I would hope all neighborhood watches are the same here but, they may not be. It doesn't make the request for him to not pursue moot tho. Even if the dispatch person did not have the perceived "authority".



"They always get away.", is very ambigous. If you think he is reffering to black people, then that is what will be in your mind. But, most likely it is your feelings/paranoia getting in the way. "They" meaning burglars.


I have no opinion one way or the other on what he meant by anything he said. I was simply referring to a radio show and what I heard on there. Is there a link to the uncut audio? I would love to hear it for myself.



posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 02:10 PM
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Zimmerman chased down an innocent, unarmed kid, and escalated the confrontation to a cold-blooded shooting.

I wonder why no one is arguing that Martin also had the right to "stand his ground". Did he not have the same right to defend himself when Zimmerman jumped him and pushed him? And if Martin DID manage to get a lucky shot in and pop him in the nose, does that give Zimmerman the right to unload his gun into Martin's chest at point-blank range?

Zimmerman is a vigilante murderer, and one with a serious racial issue.



posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 02:24 PM
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Gun ownership is a power over others. With it comes responsibilities to others.

Since when had murder of another UNARMED precious human life using gun or guns in a state of peace condoned?



posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 03:05 PM
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Originally posted by popsmayhem
post removed by staff


Look at the bulk of that kid. He is a mass of muscles.

I am pretty sure I could beat that kid up.
I am so glad this was posted. This is the big scary threat that had to be shot.

This skinny twig of a kid with baby fat on his face!




-Please, all Zimmerman supporters do me a favor. Get these photos printed up on t-shirts with the slogan "I am scared to death of this 140lb kid so much so that I am glad he got shot to death before he walked down my street with skittles."

Show everyone the big bad scary black kid that has you all hiding in a corner of your house with your guns. These two pictures make my cats look more dangerous than this kid.
edit on Sun Mar 25 2012 by DontTreadOnMe because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 03:10 PM
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Originally posted by Blackmarketeer
Zimmerman chased down an innocent, unarmed kid, and escalated the confrontation to a cold-blooded shooting.

I wonder why no one is arguing that Martin also had the right to "stand his ground". Did he not have the same right to defend himself when Zimmerman jumped him and pushed him? And if Martin DID manage to get a lucky shot in and pop him in the nose, does that give Zimmerman the right to unload his gun into Martin's chest at point-blank range?

Zimmerman is a vigilante murderer, and one with a serious racial issue.


This is the exact argument I keep bringing up. Stand your ground goes both ways. Somebody chases me through my neighborhood and tries to stop me with no good reason? Chances are, im busting their nose.



posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 03:12 PM
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Originally posted by xuenchen

Wanted: Dead or Alive:

by the New Black Panther Party !!




Yesterday afternoon at a press conference, the New Black Panther Party for Self-Defense circulated a “wanted dead or alive” poster for George Zimmerman for shooting to death a Florida teenager four weeks ago.


Wanted Dead or Alive Poster Issued for George Zimmerman by New Black Panther Party



3 guys with no affiliation to the Black Panthers made a poster.
This is news why?
This is news because the NBPs want you to scared and make it news. Now all 3 of them have no reason to follow up. You are doing their work for them.

So what do you think this means? That these 3 guys did this thing?



posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 03:17 PM
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Originally posted by GhettoRice
reply to post by xuenchen
 


What does this add? This is also in the exact polar opposite of what is going on and is also wrong.


It adds fuel to the fire which is exactly what these 3 guys want. The 3 men that are the NBPs want white people to be scared. Now ATS has white people saying the the Black Panthers are calling for Zimmerman's death. All these 3 guys had to do was make a poster and they got a lot of white people to get angry at a lot of black people and Xenchy there is carrying their water for them in this thread.



posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 03:21 PM
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cnninsession.files.wordpress.com...

Here is the link to the official police report....near the end are the observations of the police officer.

Bottom line....it all goes down to who made physical contact first..if it wasn't Zimmerman, then the law is on his side and there is NO requirement to arrest him...tough if you don not like the law.
edit on 25-3-2012 by timetothink because: (no reason given)



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