Exclusive! First hand Witness: Trayvon Martin attacked Zimmerman Zimmerman Innocent Smoking Gun

reply to post by TKDRL


He must have night ray vision. Because he never mentions any of those things to 911 when he called and he changed his story from his 911 call to the doorway interview. On the 911 call he sees 2 people 'wrestling' ... in his doorway interview he sees 'one person on top BEATING the other person'....why the change, john?

Also, how could he see GZ red jacket, in the dark, while GZ supposedly had TM sitting on top of him? How could he see GZ mouth moving to know it was GZ yelling for help, in the dark?

The most likely scenario is that John added to his story what he believed happened. It's been confirmed cops told one eye witness that they did not hear what they reported hearing. The cop told one witness they did not hear TM yelling that they heard GZ yelling, now how could cops know that? So most likely John got additional information that cops were passing around to witnesses on the scene that night and john believed them to be true. Mary Cutcher, Selman, and the AC360 witness in shadow ALL contradict John's claims. All 3 of these witness seen GZ on top of TM (AC360 witness saw this DURING the shooting) and the other 2 saw it just seconds after the gunshot. So there are 3 eye witnesses that we know of that contradict Johns words. Plus we have the mother of the 13 year old boy who said one of the Inv. told her it was not self defense, they had to prove it. There is also a witness that saw someone being chased in the direction of TM house. Which would make sense it was TM being chased since he was running TOWARDS his house and AWAY from GZ truck.

Its apparent most GZ supporters are hanging the entire innocence defense on GZ word and John. Thats it. They have ignored every other witness or evidence that points to GZ guilt. There is so much more to this case than just GZ word and John. Which is why GZ will most likely plea this case out in about a year or be found guilty outright, imo.

reply to post by fbluth


Ear witnesses < Eye witnesses

Mary Cutcher, Selman, both saw nothing until after, when he was checking the body. And john isn't the only eye witness, there was one other I have heard from in the thread. Maybe one more, I don't know of the third one pops mentions.

The mother of the 13 year old? I have no faith in her word whatsoever. Why would the investigators even be discussing details in an ongoing investigation with her. Highly improper..... Especially to try and say they had come to a conclusion before the investigation was over.

reply to post by TKDRL


No, the bullet angle can show more than just if it went through the back. They will be able to tell who was on top, who was on bottom and what angle TM body was positioned in at the time of the shooting. This better match up to what GZ said. They will be able to tell if actually was on the grass with TM on top of him or if GZ was actually on top of TM and TM was struggling to get away. The funeral director already said there was no exit wound he saw, I know its not the autopsy report, but an exit would is something a funeral director would notice. Time will tell on that.

And how would GZ explain how his DNA got under TM nails, if it is there? If TM has GZ DNA under his nails that would indicate that he scratch GZ head and it wasn't banged on the ground as GZ claims. So, again, it will show more than you claim.

Are you serious with that comment about swabbing him from head to toe? I don't even know how to respond to that if you actually think TM body was not swabbed. Especially when the accused said the victim covered his mouth with his hands. I can't believe you would actually try to undermine me with such a snide remark when everyone knows that every inch of TM body was examined. But ok, if you want to believe it is your way, ok, but your wrong. GZ better hope TM had his saliva on his palms....you just wait and see. Comment on things you know about, this obviously isn't one of them.

You little row of smiley faces is not a response, it just means you don't have anything credible to respond with. You can think your funny all you want, your not. Its just sad that you think smiley faces is in any way a proper response. I know its hard to respond to someone who is right, therefore making you wrong, but you smiley face attempt was pretty weak.

reply to post by TKDRL


If you don't know of them then you shouldn't speak of them.

There is an EYE witness that saw the whole thing (the scuffle on the ground) including the moment the gun went off. So far this is the most credible witness yet. You should listen to her interviews. She has done 2 in shadow on AC360. She is better than John as a witness because John missed most of what was going on. John ran inside, locked the door, up the stairs, get telephone, call 911. John did not record the shots on his 911 call, so his call was made after TM was dead. So John missed critical moments that the witness on AC360 didn't. You guys like to think John stood there and watched.....he didn't, not by his words. He missed at least the last 30 seconds or so, if you believe what he says.

If you want to cite a witness you should use the AC360 witness. She seen way more than john and she is an EYE witness......much better than john who was too scared to even try and help. John ran, so John's memory probably isn't that great anyway concerning the situation, not to mention, he didn't actually see much of it, he locked himself in his house. He didn't want to get hit by stray bullets from GZ gun. This witness should be your go to witness, not John. John could NOT have seen much.....he was too busy doing other things...going in house, locking door, going upstairs, getting phone, calling 911....those things do take time....John missed so much, yet you guys hang on to him like he seen everything........

This is a much much much better witness.

New Trayvon Martin Witness speaks to CNNs Anderson Cooper
Eye Witness: "Police REFUSED to see Crime Scene in Trayvon Martin Case"

Just because you don't believe the 13 year old mother is irrelevant. She had no motive to go on tv and lie. But of course you wouldn't believe her. She doesn't match what you want to have happened.

You can also discount Mary Cutcher and Selma, but their interviews match what the AC360 witness who saw the entire struggle on the ground. So now we have 3 witness who's stories match up compared to 1 person who's story doesn't match up. Im going with the odd ... Ill stick the 3 witness that match up and you can have the lone 1 witness who missed most of the struggle.

Also note the Ac360 witness pretty much blows the head being beat on the sidewalk story out of the water too. She seen them entirely on the grass about 4 feet from the sidewalk. These are all things GZ supporters completely ignore.

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by Autumnal

 

Whatever you say there junior. Aside from powder, and bullet angle, I don't see what else forensics is going to show that isn't already known.....

edit on Sun, 13 May 2012 22:12:37 -0500 by TKDRL because: (no reason given)

Because you do not know much about forensics at all. It seems you know almost next to nothing if those are the only things you can list after two tries and you still cannot accurately explain what good they are. There is nothing wrong with being ignorant until you start opining out of your area of expertise. I am waiting for one of the pretend police on ATS like Xcatheter to come and back you up here. Why is that taking so long?

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by Autumnal

 

Clearly you haven't bothered to look for the quotes cited all aver the place.....
He saw the guy screaming on the bottom was wearing red, what zimmerman happened to be wearing. And that the beater was shot dead.

I have read this entire thread. Stop telling me that I have not bothered to look for things I am not going to find because they do not exist.

reply to post by Autumnal

'The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: "Help, help… and I told him to stop and I was calling 911,' he said.

Zimmerman was wearing a red sweater; Martin was in a grey hoodie.

He added: 'When I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point.'

That was his statement made to a local news station the next day....
Nah doesn't exist.....
And I didn't post the interview video like 5 times in the thread either.

reply to post by Autumnal


Two people are struggling over a gun. The bullet could have entered at just about any angle as I have already stated. I am sorry you cannot picture that for yourself, maybe you need to work on your visualization skills. If I got time after work I will show you a few.

And surprise a personal snipe in there as well. I don't know, perhaps he is out doing what a police officer would be doing, like his job?

reply to post by fbluth


I guess you really haven't read the thread, thought so. The AC witness was discussed for a few pages.

And funny, john never mentioned seeing a gun, so how do you come to the ridiculous conclusion he locked himself in the house to hide from stray bullets?

I say he locked himself in the house, because there was a thug on his lawn beating up zimmerman.

reply to post by conspiracy nut


Not true. At all.
The girlfriend is most likely lying as evidenced by her behavior. The father said Trayvon stepped up to ZImmerman on his way to his truck and asked him if he had a problem to which Trayvon replied "you do now."

I remember it pretty well no need to make up stories.

reply to post by fbluth


I would like to see a source where it was said that someone saw someone chasing someone until they met in confrontation.

I don't believe this at all.

There is no way ZImmerman chased the teen and caught up with him because the teen had began running long before ZImmerman "chased" after him. Also there is no way Zimmerman could run down a 17 year old football player. Don't make up stuff it will only come back and make you look foolish. Also if anyone saw that it would have been huge breaking news way earlier. There is just no way Zimmerman could have chased him down especially after the headstart TM had. To make up for the time between the end of the call and the shooting Trayvon would have had to have hidden somewhere rather than going home.

I do know some of what TM saw that night, Pizza, I know that he wouldn't have attacked Zimmerman if he had his gun out and TM saw it. Unless TM was really stupid. Yet we do know that TM attacked Zimmerman so it stands pretty clear that ZImmerman didn't have his gun out. Also he probably wouldn't have waited until he was being slammed against the ground by TM before he shot if he already had it out not to mention why would GZ start a fight if he could hold the person there at gunpoint.

Your whole idea is completely redundant and flat out stupid. None of it makes sense. You think TM attacked GZ while he had his gun out after GZ chased him down. THat is the most idiotic scenario I have heard on this case. It doesn't make sense, but it leans wholly one way That is how I know you are biased and have no interest in the facts and are pointless to talk to. Have a good day artist formerly known as pizzanazi.

Sorry the facts are on my side.

reply to post by Autumnal


Has it been proven that that isn't what happened?

Because I haven't seen any updates that said so, but if it is I will gladly change my story.. Right now however that is the ONLY one that explains the time discrepency between TM starting to run and then being shot after fighting Zimmerman just 70 yards from his door.

I guess it is a possibility that TM stopped running and ZImmerman caught up with him again, but there is NO WAY Zimmerman could ever catch a running TM so TM would be in the wrong just the same if he turned around and started fighting Zimmerman (though that scenario seems less likely than Zimmerman getting jumped).

reply to post by Autumnal


You have missed a ton obviously if you confused what color the witness claimed the attacker was wearing and conveniently confused it with the color Zimmerman was wearing..

What are the odds right?

The reason this thread has gone on so long is for one reason and one reason only the people opposing Zimmerman are completely biased. I don't know if it's because they can't shake the media manipulation or if they are just anti gun people, but every thing has pointed towards Zimmerman shooting Trayvon in self defense.

You guys are coming up with this nonsense that maybe Zimmerman's head was hurt from scratches caused by Trayvon trying to get away. Get real there are big differences between scratches and contusions. It's all b.s. Why can't you just let it ride. The only reason the thread was made was because it was at a time when no one was giving Zimmerman a fair shake, now people are. Stop acting like TM was a saint and could only have been trying to get away. You know less about this character than anyone and if past experiences are indicative of future results he was well on his way to being a criminal.

Let the case ride. If there is any justice Zimmerman will go free.

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


It drags on also because new members come and start rehashing stuff that has been brought up a hundred pages ago, acting like there is some new evidence out

There hasn't been anything new since the head investigator admitted their case was a sham under oath.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow

You guys are coming up with this nonsense that maybe Zimmerman's head was hurt from scratches caused by Trayvon trying to get away. Get real there are big differences between scratches and contusions. It's all b.s. Why can't you just let it ride. The only reason the thread was made was because it was at a time when no one was giving Zimmerman a fair shake, now people are. Stop acting like TM was a saint and could only trying to be getting away. You know less about this character than anyone and if past experiences are indicative of future results he was well on his way to being a criminal.

Let the case ride. If there is any justice Zimmerman will go free.

Very true, I think this is some of the reasons
zimmerman was charged with second degree murder..
Because people want zimmerman to be some big
bad racist out to kill a little innocent black kid..
When all the evidence points other wise..

Al sharpton and Jesse Jackson as you already know
have told people who listen to them black kids
are not safe to walk the street because of white
people like zimmerman.. Total farce.. How often
does this happen? Not as often as they would
like you to think it does.

reply to post by popsmayhem


Yeah.. in fact they have demonized a guy (Zimmerman) that does a lot, A LOT, for the black community out of the kindness of his heart!!

Also the prosecutor was dreaming of her big murder case and instead she overcharged a guy because of the media blitz and now she is stuck with a case where she overcharged a guy who is almost definitely innocent and her dream case is gonna ruin her. I say good there is a less on to be learned.

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


Not to mention the *THREAT* of civil
unrest and *going to burn it to the ground*
that was mustard up to get quite honestly
in my opinion, black people in a uproar
to fill Al and jacks pockets and get them face time
on tv.... The thing is, the riots would be
real, and they would be sitting cozy at the RITZ
laughing their ass off.. It is sad..

Here ya go buddy, this is three completely different bullet paths, from the same scuffle. If I had the time and the desire, I could do full animations for you. Sorry, didn't have time to set up skin, hair and clothes, I assume muscle anatomy like this is within TC though


Upward trajectory


Straight trajectory


Downward trajectory

I could come up with like 100 different angles, it's not that difficult. Now do you see why I say that the angle could be almost anything, as long as it's front to back, and still match his testimony? I hope it's clear.

reply to post by hapablab


Don't know if someone has answered your question, but imagine this scenario....Zimmerman placed the call to the police while he was already following Martin...When the police told him not to pursue, Zimmerman turned around and started back home...that is when he was jumped from behind. If Zimmerman was the neighborhood watchman
he was not gonna call from his home...he would call while in pursuit to keep an eye on the supposed suspect don't ya think?

Thanks kindly, Pax

reply to post by TKDRL


I read the thread. And I am continuing to discuss the AC360 witness. I am allowed to continue to discuss this witness that you all like to dismiss. John has been talked about until blue in the face. I don't see you telling people to quit talking about him. Why? Because you guys think John helps GZ case, all the while ignoring the witnesses that hurt his case. Thats how you GZ supporters work. Sorry you don't like it, but the AC360 witness blows john out of the water, especially when you couple her testimony with Mary Cutcher, Selma, and the witness who saw the chase. So you should quit talking about John, he's been talked to death and he isn't a very reliable witness. He has changed his story....like it or not, thats the truth. He changed from 'wrestling' to 'beating' and then added details he had no way of knowing. Hang on to John, you'll be disappointed come trial time.

John didn't have to mention a gun. John is a coward. John did nothing to help. John ran in the house, locked the door and ran upstairs. John didn't even call 911 until after the shots. For all we know John is helping Zimmerman cover it up. Prove he didn't. He sure did have details the next day that he didn't have on his 911 call. Johns gonna have to explain how he got those additional details. Just like you guys can't explain how john seen a red jacket at night with a person supposedly on top of him beating him, how he supposedly saw GZ mouth screaming in the dark, all the while TM was supposedly trying to cover his mouth. John is going to have to explain all of this. And just like you guys can't explain those details, John won't be able to either.

I say he locked himself in the house because he is a coward or he previously knee GZ from the neighborhood and he knew GZ carried a gun and he knew there was a chance of stray bullets so he ran. Just like TM ran from GZ. If I was john Id be ashamed of myself for not helping in anyway shape or form.